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RV-1 history question

Not necessarily an insight, but a bit of deductive reasoning/rambling.

If two folks are claiming to have the first of something, at least one of them must be wrong. Could even be both wrong-----

The front page article says that Van himself is supporting the one in Texas.

My guess is that Van is probably the most qualified person on this planet to judge which plane is which.

As Stein would say-------------my $.02
 
Not necessarily an insight, but a bit of deductive reasoning/rambling.

If two folks are claiming to have the first of something, at least one of them must be wrong. Could even be both wrong-----

The front page article says that Van himself is supporting the one in Texas.

My guess is that Van is probably the most qualified person on this planet to judge which plane is which.

As Stein would say-------------my $.02

I agree with you Mike, but it does not really say Van is supporting it, it just says "with his support,..." no matter...
My understanding is the original airplane that Van started experimenting with was the modified S**** Playboy, i.e. fabric fuselage. The Creswell Airplane fits that bill. However that may not be the first airplane that Van actually fabricated with intent to produce them and start his company, an all metal RV, like the Texas one. So it might be that both have some provenance.
I wish this thread had popped up yesterday. Both Stan and Jerry V. where at our annual EAA105 meeting at the airpark and I could have asked them.
 
RV1

A search of the FAA data shows the yellow aircraft, N5827N registered as a "Vangrunsven RV1" and the blue and white airplane, N1583, registered as a "Stit's Playboy." Like Mike, I'll go with what Van says.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
A search of the FAA data shows the yellow aircraft, N5827N registered as a "Vangrunsven RV1" and the blue and white airplane, N1583, registered as a "Stit's Playboy." Like Mike, I'll go with what Van says.

So... would that actually make N1583 more like an RV-0.5 :p
 
RV1

My recollection is that Van flew the stock Stits Playboy for a while and realized he could do better. The RV1 has a Stits fuselage frame and empennage-not much else is left. Cowl, canopy and wing are all similar to RV3. The Stits Playboy was a pretty sorry flying airplane. The wing struts on top of the wing caused a lot of drag and the wing was not very efficient. Van transformed it into an airplane that performed almost as well as the RV3. First I ever heard of the airplane in TX. MAYBE it was someone else that built and "RV1" on their own.
 
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Hummm… which one is the REAL RV-1? Sounds like a job for TSA… “please pull your pants down so I can examine your log books”. Paul Dye is credited with writing the VAF announcement, and while he’s not a TSA employee he does work for the Government… so I’m guessing that he has examined the log books. Guess we’ll just have to wait for Paul to chime in before we’ll have clarification. In the meantime, additional research may be in order.
 
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The one in TX is the real one originally built by Dick VanGrunsven (though it was fully rebuild/restored sometime in the early 90's)

The one in Oregon was built by someone else after Van had built his. I believe he has said that the builder consulted with him on many of the construction details, but that it was not an exact copy of the first RV-1.
 
Question answered

The one in TX is the real one originally built by Dick VanGrunsven (though it was fully rebuild/restored sometime in the early 90's)

The one in Oregon was built by someone else after Van had built his. I believe he has said that the builder consulted with him on many of the construction details, but that it was not an exact copy of the first RV-1.

And that friends and neighbors is that.:D

Thanks Scott.
 
Not necessarily an insight, but a bit of deductive reasoning/rambling.

If two folks are claiming to have the first of something, at least one of them must be wrong. Could even be both wrong-----

The front page article says that Van himself is supporting the one in Texas.

My guess is that Van is probably the most qualified person on this planet to judge which plane is which.

As Stein would say-------------my $.02

I also agree with Mike on this....

The RV-1 in it's final form did not have that lower cowl inlet. I have a 1967 foto of the RV-1 that sports N# 5827N and is a like foto of the one in TX.

If need be, I will scan the foto and post it here.............

One thing you can't copy is the N number..... I sure hope the guy in TX re-registers N5827N in time or the guy with the copy will have the missing piece to his illusion.
 
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Weird!

Thinking just yesterday about the newly-learned fact that Van made drawings for a fastback RV-3 a long time ago, I Googled S**** Playboy to study its lines. (Seems natural, if the Playboy had a raised turtledeck, I figured Van at least thought about it.) I found an old photo of N1583 way on the bottom of this page:

http://www.fraseraerotechnologycompany.com/Ray_S****_Aircraft.html

Naturally I said "HOLY COW" when I saw the resemblance to the -3, and went to the FAA website to see if there was still an N number record, and yes, there is. It's listed as a S**** Playboy Model D, with an O-290, airworthiness date of 1982. I saved the photo, figuring it was at least a cousin to Van's original. Weird that all that happened yesterday, I showed it to some people I work with, and now the RV-1 has a spot on the front page...
 
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Finding The RV-1

Sorry to make everyone wait, but it’s been a busy week and this is the first chance I’ve had to sit and “answer the mail”, so to speak….(It's aso fun to read the speculation ....)

As Bob found in his search, yes indeed, this is the airplane that we were shown in a hangar at Dunham Field on the east side of Houston a couple of years ago. I had dropped in to do a TC visit for builder (now flyer!) Chuck Elsey, and he said that he had something to show me before we looked at his RV-6. The RV-1 was tucked back in a corner, recuperating from a ground loop. I took some pictures and asked a few questions that eventually lead to the owner of the airplane. At that point, I put the proposition of acquiring the airplane to some RV friends here in Texas, and that set the wheels in motion. In several visits with Dick VanGrunsven over the intervening time, we became quite sure that this was, indeed, his first “RV”, and when the opportunity came to close the deal a few months ago, I reviewed the logbooks.

Talk about an amazing set of historical documents! The airplane did, in fact, start out as a Stits playboy which Van bought several years after it was constructed. He upgraded the engine right off the bat, and flew it for awhile before again taking it out of service and changing the wings, tail, turtledeck, canopy … and relicensed it as the “VanGrunsven RV-1”. He flew it for about 600 hours before selling it to someone near Dallas/fort Worth. It eventually found its way down to the Houston area where it had a couple of different owners.

Soon after we picked up the airplane from its previous owner, I wrote up a brief history of the airplane by paging through the logbooks, and we’ll certainly have this available on the “Friends” website as soon as that gets up and running. I passed this history by Van and his comment was that he might have to help me “flesh it out” a little as we go through the restoration. This is going to be a heck of a fun project, and it is going to take a lot of people to make it happen – look for the web site to be online soon (I hope – I am not a webmaster, but we have “top men” working on the project right now….), and figure out a way to contribute if you want to be a part of this airplane’s unique history!

Paul

P.S.:There were a couple of mentions of photos of the RV-1 - any and all would be appreciated!! We are going to have our agents in Oregon involved in getting whatever is available, because we know that the cowling, canopy, and canopy skirt are significantly different at this time than they were originally.
 
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Am I the only one annoyed that S T I T S gets censored out?!!?

.....I know I know, but I still think it's dumb - I mean; I can openly type "breasts" and it doesn't have a problem!??! :)

Cheers,
Stein

[ed. Default setting in the software. Sorry. dr]

PS, The RV1 will be a fun project I think. I already tried to convince them it needs an EFIS but was shot down, so we'll have to settle for the basics...I sure hope we can remember how to do that!
 
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Am I the only one annoyed that S T I T S gets censored out?!!?

No! You are not the only one. It is pretty childish software that won't let me use perfectly acceptable words.
I can type cockpit. Why not Stits?
It's almost as bad as having to add words to be accepted.

Hey, look. It took it! Looks like Doug fixed it. Thanks!

[ed. A couple thousand automated spambots try to join the forums daily (and fail), their never ending goal being to flood the viewers with offensive spam messages. Occasionally though one gets in, which is why the 'dirty word list' is enabled. As the person who maintains and supports it 24/7, I would not characterize the forum software as 'childish', but rather 'an exceedingly stable and mature technology' that scalably serves the needs of over 14,000 RVators in all time zones.

I modified the list to allow 'Stits'. dr]
 
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An early victory for the Friends of the RV-1!

No! You are not the only one. It is pretty childish software that won't let me use perfectly acceptable words.
I can type cockpit. Why not Stits?
It's almost as bad as having to add words to be accepted.

Hey, look. It took it! Looks like Doug fixed it. Thanks!

I don't think this change is within our anticipated mission statement, but it is very cool to have such an early, viable contribution to the RV community. ;)
 
RV-1 talk at Flabob A/P

Talk about slack-jawed overload:

About 7 years ago, while visiting my daughter in SoCal,
I drove over to Riverside to check out the EAA Ch-1 flyin.
I ran into Jack Norris who I knew from my many years in
the Luscombe nation. Jack took me on a cook's tour of
the many replicas and restorations at Flabob. As the
afternoon ended, Jack asked me if I wanted to go to
the Chapter dinner. I didn't have a ticket and went in
as Jack's guest.

As we sat down, I realized I was sitting at the speakers table.
The speaker was Van and he was sitting next to Ray Stits!
Since I had started a Stits Playboy years ago and was currently
building a RV-7, these two were idols to me. Remember,
Ray Stits not only had about seven different models available
to home builders at one time but also, 'in my opinion' showed
the EAA the need for setting up chapters around the world.

I remember the RV-1 part of Van's talk referenced 'improving'
the drag of the Stits wing and the switching to metal construction.
I don't remember the numbers but remember Van achieved much
greater speed and weight reduction on the same power. I can't
remember quotable details of the good natured banter between Ray
and Van and to this day wish I had recorded the event.
I'll never forget that evening.

Now I am reading about that very airplane's journey to being
restored to its original form.
Thanks Paul and Louise.

Tom Webster
 
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Bob found in his search, yes indeed, this is the airplane that we were shown in a hangar at Dunham Field on the east side of Houston a couple of years ago. I had dropped in to do a TC visit for builder (now flyer!) Chuck Elsey, and he said that he had something to show me before we looked at his RV-6. The RV-1 was tucked back in a corner, recuperating from a ground loop. I took some pictures and asked a few questions that eventually lead to the owner of the airplane. At that point, I put the proposition of acquiring the airplane to some RV friends here in Texas, and that set the wheels in motion. In several visits with Dick VanGrunsven over the intervening time, we became quite sure that this was, indeed, his first ?RV?, and when the opportunity came to close the deal a few months ago, I reviewed the logbooks.

Paul

Paul, really happy & excited that you got RV-1 to the right group. It's funny, but that July day that I first showed you the airplane down in Crosby wasn't just by chance, I had a feeling that day that you were the right guy to show the plane. The events that have occurred through your efforts are certainly no surprise. Let me know anyway I might help in this effort.
 
I'd emphasize that while Louise and I have the pictures and write-ups, and have had the privilege of being involved so far, there are many folks that have been other key folks (like Chuck) that have gotten this thing going, and we expect many, many more to be involved as the project gets rolling.

It really was a magical moment when Chuck showed me the RV-1 for the first time, and we are just glad to have been a part of brining it back to the forefront!

Paul
 
Will there be an opportunity for people to donate to a restoration fund?

Absolutely! The "Friends of the RV-1" non-profit will be looking for all sorts of help, including financial contributions. As we said in the original announcement, the web site is on the way, and we'll be looking for contributions of time, talents, and resources of all kinds. We want everyone in the community to feel that they have been a part of this airplane's history.

Money will obviously be important, as will building talents, operational expertise, and organizational work. Getting the airplane flying is only the first step - organizing a flying tour of visits to events and EAA chapters will be a big part of the effort, and believe me, that will require effort. But I beleive in the people of this obsession, and look forward to an amazing year of the community coming together.

More to come....

Paul
 
N1583 not the original

N1583 was restored in Sacramento by a member of VAF and friend of mine. At the time I believe he thought there were three RV-1's made. N5827N is the original as far as I have ever known. I have some photos of the restoration of N1583 in progress but they are not in digital form. He offered to sell me N1583 at one point but I had no interest in a single place plane at the time.
 
I have received quite a few PM's with offers of help for the RV-1 Project, and all of the offers are welcome! Right now, we're just getting organized, and the web site is being developed, so hopefully, it will be easier to volunteer in the near future. In the next couple of weeks, the airplane is going to be inspected by some well-known and highly experienced RV mechanics, the engine is going to be removed for a good going-over by one of the best shops in the RV world, and we'll be building a work list of things that need to be done to make it airworthy. We've already got a couple of well-known suppliers lined up for electrical parts, avionics, and engine accessories, so we're well on the way!

When we have a comprehensive list of the parts and work we need to get it done, we'll throw it out there to see what folks can contribute in the way of supplies and time.

Personally, I'm glad that the airplane is up at RV Central, or I'd never get anything done on the -3 in our hangar!
 
Paul--

Are you going to attempt to put RV1 back to "original", or as close to original as possible, or just restore it the way you see it now?
I assume that Van has some drawings, or there are pics of the original locations for accessories. So will this be an "authentic" restoration?
Tom
 
Are you going to attempt to put RV1 back to "original", or as close to original as possible, or just restore it the way you see it now?
I assume that Van has some drawings, or there are pics of the original locations for accessories. So will this be an "authentic" restoration?
Tom

Good question! the first thing to recognize is that this airplane would probably not have gotten a Gold Lindy when it was new - it was and always has been a work in progress. So we are not concerned about making it look pristine - it never was!

With that said, our goal is to restore it to the configuration it was in when Van sold it. We are not going to be slaves to doing everything under the skin exactly the way Van had it - we will probably add some electrics to power a small avionics pallet, for instance, so that it has a transponder (didn't need one back then). We want to make it reliable enough that we can take it "on the road". W ewon't make you go out and find 40 year old authentic rubber fuel hose for instance.....:D

The interesting part will be restoring the lines of the canopy and cowl, since we are going to have to rely on photographs for that - they have both been changed, and we don't have the originals.

Paul
 
Good question! the first thing to recognize is that this airplane would probably not have gotten a Gold Lindy when it was new - it was and always has been a work in progress. So we are not concerned about making it look pristine - it never was!

With that said, our goal is to restore it to the configuration it was in when Van sold it.
...
Paul

I wish more restores, auto, boat, and planes, took that mentality.

War birds were not flawless, neither were early Ferraris, both had tooling dents all over them.

It would be cool to see old cars with common mods that the owners performed on them, not all cars survived in factory new configuration.
 
I wish more restores, auto, boat, and planes, took that mentality.
War birds were not flawless, neither were early Ferraris, both had tooling dents all over them.
It would be cool to see old cars with common mods that the owners performed on them, not all cars survived in factory new configuration.

I had a friend who restored Model "T"s. He got very low points at his first show for "over-restoration". Never entered another show.
His cars were perfection.
 
Pheonixing this thread, FWIW.

I rebuilt N1583 in the '90's in Sacramento.
Got it from a grass strip up in the foothills. Was orange, repainted blue.
I was told it was scratch built back in mid '60's in the Portland OR area.
Story was, Vans did the Stits playboy to RV-1 conversion and was popular with some other scratch builder guys in the area. Vans sketched up some plans for the cantilevered wings and gave/sold the plans. A handful of guys started the wing build. N1583 was the only one that made it to completion. Story has it that there are/were some built RV-1 wings in garages/barns somewhere in the area, but never heard more.

Saw Vans at the Merced Fly-In (remember that one) with N1583. He looked it over and said it was nice, but his RV-1 was better. 8^)

Since N1583 was build after N2587N was build first, then in sequence, N1583 should probably be RV-1.5.
 
I was told by a good friend (RV7 builder) that the Stitts Van bought/modified was built in a garage near him in Cornell, IL. I'll get more information, but wanted to post as he has been in EAA all that time and from the era.
 
Saw Vans at the Merced Fly-In (remember that one) with N1583. He looked it over and said it was nice, but his RV-1 was better.

If you’re talking about the same airplane I think you are, it was back here in Oregon for a few years at one point and I looked it over with Van at one of our home coming fly-ins.
He explained that the builder chose to deviate from the drawings he provided, and build the wings with simpler plain hinged ailerons like is on a Cessna. It caused a lot of adverse yaw and made the handling qualities nothing like a Van’ original.
 
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