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Spinning an RV-10

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Space Cadet

Well Known Member
I consider myself very lucky to still be alive. While conducting a 30-deg banked stall this weekend during Phase 1 testing on my RV-10, I accidentally entered into an aggravated stall, otherwise known as a spin. Having never actually done one before, it took me a bit of time to get out of it and recover. Upon reviewing the flight data from the EFIS, it says I lost over 3500' of altitude, hit 232 mph (that's VNE BTW), and saw 4.6 g's during the pull-up (short duration). Oil door got tweaked and came open, and the engine was pushed down enough for the AC compressor pulley to slice through the lower cowling (it was a tight fit).

Needless to say the whole thing scared the bejeezes out of me.

I say I'm luck to be alive because I HAD been using something like 3000 ft AGL previously for my stall testing, and only because of some rough air had I climbed up to much higher this time.

No permanent damage except to my ego really (still need to inspect the plane a bit more to be sure). No worries, I will continue forward, with some modifications to my remaining test planning.

So, Phase 1 lessons here: Get upset training and/or get current on your stalls (I was rusty, I admit), do stalls in very calm air (think it was a contributing factor), and get lots of altitude for stall testing.

Whew.
Dwight
 
I'm VERY glad you and the plane are (mostly) alright and able to share the events. Sounds like good "Lessons Learned". I would add gettting spin training and proficiency before considering doing Phase 1 work....especially stall testing.
 
Wow, glad to see you are writing this post.

I am going through spin training right now and just had my first lesson monday. It was nothing short of amazing...and a real eye opener. If I were in charge, all pilots would have mandatory spin training. I would not want to do what you did without training...good for you for keeping yourself in the game and recovering.
 
Basic stall training is too timid...

I believe that there is not enough stall / spin training... Too often a stall is approached so timidly that there is little if any benefit to it and it might contribute to a false sense of security about how easily a turning stall develops into a spin.

Here is a video I made a while ago when practicing fully developed turning stalls. In the video I am nursing a coordinated turn at minimum controllable airspeed while holding altitude and very slowly adding bank until the stall breaks...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpX4bwbFMdE&sns=em
 
In the there but the grace of god go I column could you give us a little more info on what you think happened and specifics on the stall? Airspeed, AOB, skid/slip ect..?

George
 
Out of interest, from your EFIS data, where was the slip ball just prior to, at, and after the stall entry => spin? And also the relative CG position to Aft limit?

I know nothing about the RV-10, but the rest of the series tend to be (very) reluctant to spin... Not sure what Vans had to say about spin testing they did on the 10?
 
Maybe a Spiral

In most aircraft if you are actually in a spin you would not see high airspeeds like that unless you did delay the recovery a long time after the wing was flying again by not pulling out of the ensuing dive. You could have entered an accelerated stall by exceeding the angle of attack and maybe the nose got low, but still doesn't sound like a spin.

This is however a classic argument for every pilot to complete spin/upset recovery training. Just being able to recognize the unusual attitude and safely recover is extremely important.

Glad your event came out well and keep learning and enjoying your new plane.
 
Get back on the horse. It is really important that you not let this experience sit in your mind. Get back in the air and get that spin training sooner than later.
My first ride with a CFI in a 152, first day of flight school, my instructor accidently entered a spin during his stall demonstration. I was petrified.
I thought airplanes where unstable and at any moment if not perfectly flown they would fall out of control. My shear will and determination to be a pilot kept me going.
It took another CFI and lots of hours of training before i felt the least bit comfortable doing any kind of a stall.

Great learning experience and glad you are ok.
 
Spinning RV-10?

Dwight, I'm glad you are ok.
Along the lines of spin testing the RV-10, I have not been able to find any references as to the characteristics of spins and recovery in the RV-10.
I am not into aerobatics but stalls, spins and recovery have always been part of my training in most airplanes. (Maybe not most but those that are approved)
Does anyone know what Van has to say about spinning the RV-10?
 
Vans does not approve spins in the RV-10. RV10's g limit is 3.8, same as "normal" category certified aircraft. Generally, in certified aircraft, spins are forbidden unless the aircraft can be flown as utility or aerobatic.

I read on the Vans site that they fitted the test plane with a spin chute and did spins. They didn't need the chute.
============
There is currently a thread in another VAF forum about how inconvenient and expensive transition training is.

Folks, it's only money! Please do not kill yourself trying to save a few thousand dollars on training. You've already invested way over a hundred thousand dollars. Spend a little more on yourself. Or hire a test pilot. Frankly, if you have never done a spin recovery, or are "... a little rusty on stalls..." you have no business trying to be a test pilot. Harsh words, but someone is going to kill themselves here. The -10 has a powerful rudder and is, IMHO, nearly impossible to accidently spin (spin entry, yes, but not a 3000' altitude loss spin) unless the pilot has feet of clay or has not been conditioned to make the proper (and conventional) control responses.

This is a serious business. Please be honest with yourself about your capabilities and if they're lacking, get some help.

Bob
 
BTW, my operating limitations specifically forbid intentional spins. DAR asked if I was okay with that, I said yes.
 
Testing the Airplane and Your Limitations

Dwight:
Sounds like you've taken the first step (Take a Deep Breath). Second step should be to get an A&P and have him access the A/C for structural damage- it wasn't designed to do what you put it thru, and most of us really aren't qualified to carry out such an assessment. Would you trust to put your family in it at this point? Third, get with a very competent instructor and pay him for an hours time to review your flight data as well as your explanation of the situation. Don't try to get away with "free" advice here - oft times it's worth what you pay for it. Then take a lesson in a factory plane and try to determine if you're comfortable taking on the role of test pilot and flying an aircraft to the edges of it's performance capabilities. That more pilots haven't caused harm to themselves and their new planes is a testament to Vans designs. I suspect that when you stalled, you had a fairly high power setting that was left unchanged thru the event. To lose the amount of altitude you did in a C172 would take about 5 full rotations. To load up enough G's to drive an appliance thru the cowl would take a very hard pull- you're fortunate you didn't enter a secondary stall. Brushing up on your flying skills is the right thing to do. You've survived a string of very bad decisions/responses. It may not be a bad idea to find a strong test pilot to complete the Flight Test Phase while you hone your skills to a level that satisfies you. Most importantly, when the dust settles, the question You need to ask yourself is "What have I REALLY learned from this"?
Terry,CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
Hey Dwight, glad you're OK! Sounds hair-raising!

I would be VERY interested in what your flight data has to say about this event. Was it a spin, or a spiral. What caused it. What did you do to recover, and how long were the response times. This is one of those extremely rare situations that we can ALL learn from without the guess work of the NTSB!

JonJay, your story regarding stalls reminds me of my flight training at hour #4 as a student pilot. Power-On stalls, huge drop of the left wing with the instructor literally screaming "Right rudder! Right Rudder!" in my ear. Given that they were all aerobatic instructors, I don't understand why they didn't respond better. But, it took a ton of stalls and spins after that to get back some of my nerve...still working on getting it all back!
 
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spins

I see no reference in this post or any of the replies about power setting. Where was the throttle?? If this was truly a spin and not a spiral it is very important, especially in a clean airplane, to get the throttle closed. IF you have plenty of altitude, this makes the recovery after the rotation much easier on both the pilot and the airplane. As long as you have altitude the pullout could be done with as little as 2 1/2 G.
Regarding the G load, the airplane has at least a 50% safety factor which is 5.7G. The safety factor is required for certified airplanes for events such as this. I would check all the exterior skins for any indication of damage, especially around the rivets. If you don't find any obvious damage I would resume testing. The engine movement is just what I would expect with a very close fit on the cowl and the soft, non aerobatic mounts.
This is the "low hanging fruit" that everyone is talking about regarding the NTSB statements. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR THESE LOSS OF CONTROL ACCIDENTS. It is all about poor instructors, pilots who are scared of stalls, etc. Get some spin training.
 
Dwight,

Glad you are back on the ground in one piece. A lot of good advice in the posts above. Dagmar Kress, former German national aerobatic champ is in the hangar next to mine. In addition to all out aerobatic instruction in her Pitts S2S, she does unusual attitude/upset recovery/spin training in the Pitts and a Citabria. PM me if you want her contact info.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
The -10 has a powerful rudder and is, IMHO, nearly impossible to accidently spin (spin entry, yes, but not a 3000' altitude loss spin) unless the pilot has feet of clay or has not been conditioned to make the proper (and conventional) control responses.

This is a serious business. Please be honest with yourself about your capabilities and if they're lacking, get some help.

Bob

I agree with Bob, all the way here. I demonstrate accelerated stalls during transition training at banks of 40 to 45 degrees for those that want it. I have never done a spin in the -10, and don't intend to, but have a fair amount of spin experience in different aircraft. I question whether this was truly a spin.
 
Dwight, hope we are not pushing you here but a little more info from the EFIS recordings would help provide better insight.
I too believe your experience was a developing spiral, starting with an accidental spin entry and improper recovery.
Glad you decided to share your experience.
David, I am not sure how you achieve an accelerated stall at a bank angle of 45
degrees, can you explain.
 
An accelerated stall is a stall that happens with a wing loading of more than 1 g. With a 45 degree bank you'll be pulling about 1.4 g, and the wing will stall at an indicated airspeed about 20% higher than its unaccelerated stall speed.
 
Like this.

David, I am not sure how you achieve an accelerated stall at a bank angle of 45
degrees, can you explain.

Ernst, that's the accepted way to teach accelerated stalls...in a fairly steep bank, at somewhat reduced power, with a pretty hefty pull on the elevator.

Let's say we just demo'd a straight ahead, power-off stall and it was at 60 MPH in my -10. We then accelerate to 100 MPH or so, bank to around 45-60 deg and reduce power some and pull increasingly harder on the elevator. At the first shudder, I point out the speed...around 80 MPH and back off the elevator pressure and that's it. The extra G can be felt and the results seen.

Obviously, if you tried this maneuver with wings level, you'd be coming near vertical or beyond, hence the reason for banking.

Best,
 
Bank angle would only be relevant in a accelerated stall if you maintained a constant altitude. You can enter a accelerated stall with the wings level by simply pulling back on the stick. In another thread I advocated trying accelerated stalls at several different G levels since a aircraft may stall quite differently in a accelerated verses normal stall. One thing I have found consistent with my limited RV experience is that recovery is instant as soon as back pressure is released. One thing not mentioned here is that trim can be important on some aircraft in recovery. I normally stop trimming in my RV6 when practicing stalls at about 100 knots. If you trim all the way to the stall it can be very easy to get a secondary stall and its going to make stick pressures in the recovery unusual. You are going to require forward instead of aft stick if you end up nose low accelerating. Some military aircraft in a out of control flight area require a specific trim setting in the recovery. In the good ole A4 as a example the second step in recovery was trim 0 to 4 degrees.


George
 
I guess there is more than one way to demo accelerated stalls.
It was my understanding that an accelerated stall was a demonstration of a high speed stall as this can occur at any speed.
I slow down to about 100kts (well below Vm) bank 60 to 70 degrees and apply full power to keep up speed and altitude and pull until a stall occurs.
I guess high speed is a relative term meaning anything higher than level attitude stall speeds.
Sorry for the thread creep, still hoping to hear more from Dwight.
 
Dwight,

Glad you are back on the ground in one piece. A lot of good advice in the posts above. Dagmar Kress, former German national aerobatic champ is in the hangar next to mine. In addition to all out aerobatic instruction in her Pitts S2S, she does unusual attitude/upset recovery/spin training in the Pitts and a Citabria. PM me if you want her contact info.

Jim Berry
RV-10

Dwight, Dagmar is who I am doing spin training with...she's good...one lesson with her in her Pitts and you will be a different pilot. She'll teach you the correct recovery procedure of course. But the best thing you'll learn is she'll also show you what the wrong control inputs will do to the spin. For example, forgetting to close the throttle...using right aileron to try and pick up the left wing..., etc. Its quite amazing how the airplane will spin up dramatically with the wrong control inputs....like I said, its an eye opener.
 
Dwight,

Glad to hear you are okay, although probably a little shaken up. I like the idea of training with Dagmar. I plan to train with her as part of my intensive training regimen (currency, IFR/HP rating, upset/aerobatics, transition) that will be conducted the last year or so before I conduct first flight in my 10. In short, get back up, dust yourself off and learn from the experience.

Mike
 
Folks, it's only money! Please do not kill yourself trying to save a few thousand dollars on training. You've already invested way over a hundred thousand dollars. Spend a little more on yourself. Or hire a test pilot. Frankly, if you have never done a spin recovery, or are "... a little rusty on stalls..." you have no business trying to be a test pilot. Harsh words, but someone is going to kill themselves here. The -10 has a powerful rudder and is, IMHO, nearly impossible to accidently spin (spin entry, yes, but not a 3000' altitude loss spin) unless the pilot has feet of clay or has not been conditioned to make the proper (and conventional) control responses.

This is a serious business. Please be honest with yourself about your capabilities and if they're lacking, get some help.

Bob

+1 to all that. A little more info from the OP would be good too. Unless he depressed a rudder to the floor and held it during and after his stall attempt, it was very unlikely to be a spin. It might have looked like it, but I'd bet the airspeed was increasing the whole time, hence the 232mph and high G. That's a spiral. Very glad the OP is OK and that he learned a lesson, but at the same time it bothers me that this happened. It should not have. No excuse for it. Of course, this is partly related to flight training these days. Please get training and understand and get comfortable with stall/spin/spiral recoveries. Spin training is very much recommended, but you shouldn't have even needed spin training to recover from what happened. You can practice accelerated stalls and stalled wing drops all day and not get close to a spin or let a spiral develop.
 
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I cringe

Ha! Good catch. Yes, it was right rudder. I keep thinking of stomping on the left rudder to enter spins. I'll change that. :rolleyes:

Whenever I hear anybody talk like this about flying an airplane like this.

An American Airbus met an untimely demise because the FO "Stomped" on the rudder.

Just, as Stein says, My .02 cents worth.
 
Whenever I hear anybody talk like this about flying an airplane like this.

An American Airbus met an untimely demise because the FO "Stomped" on the rudder.

Just, as Stein says, My .02 cents worth.

Feeling a little uptight, Jerry? It's only verbiage...relax. I don't think I've ever truly "stomped" on anything airplane related. Rather than get upset about my choice of words, why not ask for clarification of my terminology.

By the way, your Airbus analogy isn't really in line with someone doing stalls or spins in a 152. But, you already knew that... :rolleyes:
 
Not uptight at all

Feeling a little uptight, Jerry? It's only verbiage...relax. I don't think I've ever truly "stomped" on anything airplane related. Rather than get upset about my choice of words, why not ask for clarification of my terminology.

By the way, your Airbus analogy isn't really in line with someone doing stalls or spins in a 152. But, you already knew that... :rolleyes:

It's just that when anyone talks about hamfisting and airplane it still makes me cringe.

You can do anything that's needed to control any airplane very smoothly.
 
Ernst, that's the accepted way to teach accelerated stalls...in a fairly steep bank, at somewhat reduced power, with a pretty hefty pull on the elevator.

Pretty standard checkout in a T-6. Steep bank, slow down, keep pulling. If you are going to the left it will snap upright when it stalls. If going to the right the best recovery is to keep rolling as the snap will take you almost inverted. There is very little warning other than the amount of pull required on the stick is fairly noticeable.
 
Without wishing to criticize anyone doing their testing in the US, I have to question conducting stall testing etc if you have never done spin training. Fortunately, as others have said, it sounds more like a spiral dive or this thread would probably never have started........

My opinion - if you don't know the difference between a spin and a spiral dive probably best to get someone else to do your testing.

Despite my comments, very glad you are OK.
 
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Whoever had a CFI who tired to scare him needs a new instructor. I am a firm advocate of spin training. But since it is not a required maneuver for PP in the US, I always get the student's consent first (no one has ever refused), do a preflight briefing on what's going to happen, expected response, etc.

Ernst: As to what is "high speed" stalls, there is an upper limit. If you go above maneuvering speed (Va) the aircraft will not stall until you've exceeded the load limit of the aircraft. Not a good idea.
 
Good discussion!

Well I've instigated some good dialog, and that was really what matters (beyond the surviving part :rolleyes: ).

Some replies to the previous questions/comments. First up, I'll agree I don't know the exact definitions of spin vs spiral, sounds like maybe it was a spiral and not a spin. Airspeed did increase very fast, which surprised me, and caused some delay in my corrections as I was focused on the sound of the engine and the acceleration going down and trying to reconcile that with the throttle setting I was pulling. I've done those full-flap steep slow descents and it's much different. I also have a fixed-pitch prop which is different than most (and my experience as well).

Conditions were as follows: No flaps, closed throttle, trying to hold altitude and banking 20-deg. Weight was light, and CG was 100% aft, so sensitive controls. I'm not sure exactly what went wrong to enter it, would think not coordinated. I think my head was up briefly when it first broke, so I didn't catch the readings. The data from the EFIS claims the slip was 6-deg or less if I am understanding the data, but 35-deg bank, so I was not keeping up with the bank quickly enough in the not-smooth air.

I did complete 10 hours with Mike Seager in the factory 10, although it was almost a year ago now due to a delay in getting my prop. My aircraft's stall characteristics seem more wing-heavy, the factory version seemed more stable (or just having an instructor there made the difference). I don't recall specifically doing the 20-deg bank stall with no flaps with him, but we probably did.

My primary shortfall in response, I'm pretty sure, was not getting hard on the rudder. I kept my head up and was using ailerons mostly, I think, and was nervous about which leg to push with (should have just looked at the instruments). I was also uncertain when to stall pulling again, obviously waiting too long. Hard to reconcile it all now though, it seemed to happen so fast. It was certainly not one of those slow-motion things you hear about.

Thanks for the tip on the local instruction guys, I've actually been wanting to get some aerobatic training in too, so could kill 2 birds.

As to the g-loads, the duration was very short (just a few seconds), and also I was light (design limits are to max weight), and as was pointed out it was designed to higher levels (but for only short durations). I do trust my judgment with a metal airplane, and have inspected the critical areas already for evidence of damage which I'm confident would be quite visible (skin wrinkling/cracks, rivets popped, etc.). I do plan on a more detailed inspection before flight, but it is not a big concern now.

Thanks for all the comments.

Dwight
 
Feeling a little uptight, Jerry? It's only verbiage...relax. I don't think I've ever truly "stomped" on anything airplane related. Rather than get upset about my choice of words, why not ask for clarification of my terminology.

By the way, your Airbus analogy isn't really in line with someone doing stalls or spins in a 152. But, you already knew that... :rolleyes:

OK...So I will ask for a clarification.
Mr. Morris made no reference to doing stalls/spins in a 152. If I comprehended his message correctly, he was conveying his disdain for abrupt and forceful actuation of a flight control. So with that in mind, what is the difference between an Airbus and a 152? Are the laws of physics different?:rolleyes:
 
+1 to all that.

You can practice accelerated stalls and stalled wing drops all day and not get close to a spin or let a spiral develop.

I have to agree here. A much more experienced pilot sat right seat with me while he forced me to do stalls until the cows came home in every conceivable configuration - except no high-power stalls because I was too chicken. (we had parachutes on)

I was amazed at how well behaved the plane is. We did 60 deg 2G turns and could not get the wings to break much - just a lot of buffetting which made me cringe mostly due to the noise. I did not notice any major surprises. In fact, i think the -10 stalls/mushes better than most cessnas ive flown.

The biggest risk was that there is less buffet warning with full flaps. The break comes more sharply and suddenly. Still you would have to really force a bad situation.

Jae
 
Spins

Does your -10 have an AOA installed? If so, is AOA recorded?

I'm a former Navy carrier guy so AOA was most important. I was taught that when the aircraft departed controlled flight to immediately relaese the controls and check the AOA - if it wasn't pegged one way or the other, it was in an accelerated departure/spiral - not a spin.

Also, before introducing spin recovery controls, we were told to wind our watches - keep our hands off the stick and feet off the rudders momentarily to see if it would recover itself. It certainly would controls-free if not in a fully developed spin.

Finally, primary recovery is with the rudder - ailerons and elevator neutral. Once rotation stops, pull.

Of course, all of the above assumes one has enough altitude to mess with it.
 
+1 to all that. A little more info from the OP would be good too. Unless he depressed a rudder to the floor and held it during and after his stall attempt, it was very unlikely to be a spin. It might have looked like it, but I'd bet the airspeed was increasing the whole time, hence the 232mph and high G. That's a spiral. Very glad the OP is OK and that he learned a lesson, but at the same time it bothers me that this happened. It should not have. No excuse for it. Of course, this is partly related to flight training these days. Please get training and understand and get comfortable with stall/spin/spiral recoveries. Spin training is very much recommended, but you shouldn't have even needed spin training to recover from what happened. You can practice accelerated stalls and stalled wing drops all day and not get close to a spin or let a spiral develop.

+1 to all of this. I was trained back in the dark ages when spins were still taught, but not tested. I really enjoyed (still do) doing stalls and spins, and asked my instructor to keep drilling me. I wanted to learn the signals that the plane is sending telling you that it is not happy. I have never flown a plane that was not giving signs long before a stall/spin that it was not happy.
IMHO, what you need to know in addition to recovery from developed stall/spin, is knowing the onset, and recovering before it gets going.
We have some members infinitely more qualified than I to hypothesize on what really happened during the OP's flight. I agree that the OP needs to get a qualified RV pilot and instructor to not only explore the characteristics of his RV-10, but do some basic airwork too.
Good Luck!
 
Spin vs Spiral

As I was taught (back in '74) the recovery techniques for a spin vs spiral are very different.

For the spin - closed throttle, opposite rudder and stick neutral or forward till the spin stops (takes a couple seconds at most), then pull back into level flight increasing throttle.

For the spiral - closed throttle, wings level with aileron, and pull back (gently cause you are really moving) into level flight, increasing throttle when the speed has decreased to a reasonable level.

From altitude the spiral is much more deadly as the speed and rate of descent can build to where a pullout is not possible without taking the airplane apart before it meets the ground. Stuck in IMC I'd rather spin my way to visibility than spiral (of course I'd rather do neither!).

I am firmly in the camp that says spin training should be mandatory. I can't say it has ever "saved" me, but spins don't scare me any more than they should.
 
OK...So I will ask for a clarification.
Mr. Morris made no reference to doing stalls/spins in a 152. If I comprehended his message correctly, he was conveying his disdain for abrupt and forceful actuation of a flight control. So with that in mind, what is the difference between an Airbus and a 152? Are the laws of physics different?:rolleyes:

No, his comment was in reference to my comment about doing stalls/spins in a 152. And the reason I mentioned that the analogy wasn't in-line was because of the flying situation, not the type of aircraft. The Airbus wasn't attempting to perform a 1G stall when they "stomped" the rudder. They had considerable air loads on the tail when they did that, which obviously helped break it off. Had it been a 1G maneuver, do YOU think the tail would've snapped?

Not trying to sound terse, but some here really could use a little clearer perspective on context. That in mind, I would be flat out AMAZED if you, or Mr. Morris have NEVER used "forceful and abrupt" actuation of a flight control. :rolleyes:
 
Butting in

That in mind, I would be flat out AMAZED if you, or Mr. Morris have NEVER used "forceful and abrupt" actuation of a flight control. :rolleyes:

Reminds me of doing snap rolls in the old Aerobat many years ago. Get the speed right and then a rather "abrupt" pulling the yoke into the chest while simultaneously "abruptly" pressing a rudder pedal and around we would go! Wheeeee!

To keep this somewhat on topic: I've always thought of a snap roll as an accelerated stall followed by a horizontal spin. Same recovery technique.
 
100% aft cg.

I figured it was way back there. That would probably be the only place you could get a -10 to act like that unintentionally.
 
small correction here: design load limits are independent of weight. You pulled nearly 6 g, and it was enough to deflect the engine mounts so that there was damage to the cowl. That would have happened regardless of how heavy or light you were.

I'm concerned about your cg. Most 10's are not at the aft limit when lightly loaded, just the opposite. I suppose it's the fixed pitch prop. But I'd go over the balance numbers again. Is it possible you stalled the plane with a too-far aft cg? Maybe you were luckier than you know. Remember if the cg is aft, it will move further aft as you burn gas.
 
No, his comment was in reference to my comment about doing stalls/spins in a 152. And the reason I mentioned that the analogy wasn't in-line was because of the flying situation, not the type of aircraft. The Airbus wasn't attempting to perform a 1G stall when they "stomped" the rudder. They had considerable air loads on the tail when they did that, which obviously helped break it off. Had it been a 1G maneuver, do YOU think the tail would've snapped?

Not trying to sound terse, but some here really could use a little clearer perspective on context. That in mind, I would be flat out AMAZED if you, or Mr. Morris have NEVER used "forceful and abrupt" actuation of a flight control. :rolleyes:

If you are going to hypothesize about the loads on the vertical tail which were causal to the A-300 accident, I might suggest that you read the NTSB report before you make further public comments.
You are correct that I (Mr. Morris is very respected aviator, so I will not speak for him) may have at some point in time utilized abrupt and rapid actuation of a flight control. However, I can safely say that in 35 years of flying in a range from ultralights to 747's, I have never "STOMPED" any control.
Let's get back to the OP's original post, eh?
 
Man...this whole deal scares the living daylights out of me.

A pilot so inexperienced he doesn't know the difference between a spiral dive and a spin trying to execute accelerated stalls in an unfamiliar plane, and as a result can't even remember the steps he may have taken to recover, an RV-10 that may have an aft CG issue, a seemingly cavalier attitude about doing a careful inspection, an airframe that was obviously stressed beyond its design load.........good grief......we are so fortunate we aren't discussing an NTSB report.

The main difference between this incident and the ones the FAA is coming down on us about (fatalities during Phase 1) is the pilot is able to post to the forum.

Sorry for the rant......there is just so much wrong with this incident...........so many reasons it should have never happened......I hope we can learn from it.
 
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CG, retraction

Edit: Missed Sam's post while writing. Yes, it scared me too. I didn't consider myself inexperienced (400 hrs in several different aircraft types), and jumped to a conclusion as to what happened. I've never done a spin, so I assumed that was it, and it didn't dawn on me to consider something else. To say I don't remember how I recovered is also not true, I just don't recall it perfectly and understand the limits of my own recall. It happened very quickly, and was trying to be honest about it. I was not cross-coordinated or applying pressure the wrong way if that's what you are implying. I don't believe there's any aft cg issue with the plane, just my understanding of how that cg position feels during the maneuver. It was intentionally being flown at that limit for testing. After all, when you go fly with an instructor they don't take you through all the possible cg loading positions and how it feels to you as a pilot, you're almost always in the middle of the box. So the inputs didn't match what my muscle memory was expecting and I was slow to react. And I resent the comment that have a cavalier attitude about inspecting the airplane. I don't. Perhaps you should remove the entire post if you feel it represents that bad of example.


Dwight
 
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rudder. I kept my head up and was using ailerons mostly, I think, and was nervous about which leg to push with (should have just looked at the instruments).

Bingo. Aileron input in the stall will only aggravate a cross-controlled stall condition. Stick neutral, bringing up a wing is with rudder only, you do not want to be looking at anything on the panel while doing this.
 
So suppose I'm doing accelerated stalls as part of my phase one "tests". I assume this is to make sure the plane reacts predictably in the stall. But suppose it doesn't. What then? Isn't the whole point of the test to find out what it's going to do? Isn't one of the most likely adverse outcomes a spin? Doing this kind of testing without spin training seems like a pretty bad idea (to me).
 
This is why it is called flight "testing".

First off, I commend the O.P. for baring his sole to all the world, and admitting to a situation he got himself into that could have ended very tragically.
He is also to be commended for doing what very few people seem to do during phase 1... actually testing the airplane.
He is even loading the airplane to different C.G. locations so that he can fully evaluate the flight characteristics, and at the same time better learn how to fly the airplane. Even fewer people do this.

Having said that, I am hoping that people will learn from his experience (I'm sure he has already), and realize that flight testing is much more serious business than most people making first flights and doing phase 1 flight testing think.

If you undertake the job of test pilot, you need to already be ready for anything the airplane could possibly do. This is not a learn as you go occupation. You need to already know what to do at the start of a spin entry, and be able to make the proper control inputs by seeing what is happening out the windscreen (the instruments are not going to give you the best indication). Making an incorrect determination of what is going on, making incorrect control inputs, or delaying taking proper action, can quickly turn a simple anomaly, in to a very serious situation (like it did here).

Please consider the flight testing of your new airplane to be a serious undertaking.
Please consider carefully, whether you are prepared for all of the different situations that could pop up during a first flight, and all of the testing that follows.

And please consider, There is no shame in using a more experienced pilot for some (or even all) of the test flying.
 
If you are going to hypothesize about the loads on the vertical tail which were causal to the A-300 accident, I might suggest that you read the NTSB report before you make further public comments.
You are correct that I (Mr. Morris is very respected aviator, so I will not speak for him) may have at some point in time utilized abrupt and rapid actuation of a flight control. However, I can safely say that in 35 years of flying in a range from ultralights to 747's, I have never "STOMPED" any control.
Let's get back to the OP's original post, eh?

Yeah, let's. But since you brought it up, why don't you enlighten me how my comment about the loads on a 1G maneuver are the same as the loads on the Airbus in question.

I frankly don't care how experienced a pilot you are...my whole point is that you both are making an issue out of the word "stomp" which has zero to do with how I fly. I'll tell you what, I've heard "respected" aviators say things much worse than "stomp".
 
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