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Keeping G3X Databases Up To Date

Tango Mike

Well Known Member
Using a Mac running OS10 and dealing with updating G3X software and databases has been a real goat rope at times, as it is right at the moment when I've been waiting for over 45 minutes to see the Device Update complete while waiting for FliteCharts North America 1507 to stop "Preparing to update, this may take a few minutes . . ."

The first two steps (Downloading and Transferring) always proceed fairly quickly, then I'm left with the spinning wheel of death, FliteCharts North America 1507 in blue, and a filled blue progress bar.

The last time I updated, I think I finally had to leave the page and found that all the database were current.

When I tried that today, I got a message warning me that changes wouldn't be saved and giving me the option of staying on the page or leaving. I couldn't remember if that happened the last time or not, so I left and sure enough, the FliteCharts had not been updated.

I'm trying again, and the total process of Downloading, Transferring, and now Preparing has consumed one hour and it's still not complete.

I just checked it and found a message in that says:

Could not finalize the update. Press the button below to try again. If the problem persists, you can try using the Alternate Download Process in the sidebar to the right, or please contact aviation support.

Below that are two choices, "Back To Device" and "Try Again."

Back To Device shows that Flite Charts still aren't current, and now I don't have the option of using an alternate method, whatever that is.

If anyone, especially the G3X gurus, can help me fix this, I'd sure appreciate it. Updating my beautiful Garmin system should be reliable and efficient, and at the moment it's anything but.
 
On the FlyGarmin database download page for whatever database I've selected, on the right side of the page for me is a gray box with three headings: "What can I do?", "License Agreement", and "Alternate Download Process". Under Alternate Download Process there's a hyperlink labeled with whatever database and version I'm trying to download. I click on the hyperlink and it downloads a file that allows me to program my SD card with the appropriate databas--it's a longer,more manual process but works just fine. For some reason I have to use this alternate method for my G3X updates while my GTN 650 updates just fine using the primary web download process. Oh and I'm running a PC with Windows XP.
 
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Ahh I see now. It wasn't clear to me that the alternate process wasn't available for the Apple OS.
 
And the bottom line for today is that I've spent about six hours running back and forth to the computer checking on progress, and three successive times found the "could not finalize the update announcement" with the Flitecharts still out of date.

I called aviation support and was told that due to high call volume the wait would be about 30 minutes, and the best time to call is in the mornings.

The goat rope continues . . .
 
For the price of 1-2 flight hours (if that), or a tiny fraction of the cost of your avionics, you could break down and buy a PC just for garmin updates. You could probably snag a decent (decent enough to update the G3X anyway) used laptop on craigslist for $50, or a new one for under $200. My time is worth that, and if I had to spend more than an hour or so fussing with it, I would just break down and buy a cheap PC.
 
For the price of 1-2 flight hours (if that), or a tiny fraction of the cost of your avionics, you could break down and buy a PC just for garmin updates. You could probably snag a decent (decent enough to update the G3X anyway) used laptop on craigslist for $50, or a new one for under $200. My time is worth that, and if I had to spend more than an hour or so fussing with it, I would just break down and buy a cheap PC.

I may end up having to do that, but to "break down" without protest goes against a principle I think worth the effort. I've got a lot of money invested in Garmin equipment and nowhere in their sales literature do they warn me before the purchase that I'll be treated like a 2nd-class customer.

When I first ran into a problem it was with the software updates for the G3X, which were in the form of a .exe file that I couldn't open on a Mac. Eventually, with no help from Garmin, I found a program called Unarchiver that could do that. I no longer have to use it because they eventually came up with a separate source for software updates that allows me to download and unzip a .gcd file for copying to an SD card.

As for the database updates, Safe Taxi, Terrain, NavData, and Obstacle all update fine. It's only when the process reaches the FliteCharts that it proceeds all the way through Downloading and Transferring and doesn't complete the Preparing step, finally announcing after 30-plus minutes that the process has failed.

For a couple of years now it has worked fine. Why has it suddenly stopped working for this cycle? I think that's a reasonable question to ask, and I'd like to see Garmin respond by recognizing the problem and fixing it.

Call me Don Quixote, but I'm going to charge the windmill before spending more money for a workaround to their problem.
 
This is crazy . . .

This morning when I checked the Aircraft Details page for my RV-7, the G3X overview screen showed all the databases as current with a green check mark. I have no idea why, except to guess that the update process completes okay but hangs up for some reason without indicating that the FliteCharts are up to date when they actually are.

I can live with that, I suppose, although I have no option but to wait for the update failed notice before leaving the page, and that takes over an hour with a filled progress bar and the spinning wheel of death before the notice finally appears.

If I try to guess when the update is complete and leave the page before the update failed notice appears, I get a notice that the changes will not be saved.

I'm going to call Garmin this morning to ask if they have any suggestions for more efficient database updating and how I can confirm it more quickly.
 
Contact Garmin

Mike,

I would reach out to Garmin directly. Your best bet is probably emailing [email protected]. I bet one of the team X guys will respond even on the holiday weekend.

-Levi
 
I called Garmin this morning but the help desk is closed for the holiday. I'll try the email address, thanks, but now that this cycle has finally updated, I've got some time to address the issue with them next week and intruding on their holiday weekend isn't necessary.
 
New Info on Database Updates for Mac Users

Spent two hours on the phone yesterday with the G3X and database desks, during which time we used TeamViewer so the Garmin reps could see exactly what was happening on my screen.

Bottom line, nothing we did worked to solve the problem:

1. Trashed the FliteChart database from the SD card and replaced it with the update.

2. Tried a new SD card.

3. Installed three smaller updates first, then FliteCharts and Terrain individually. The FliteChart update showed the "Preparing . . . this may take a few minutes" message for about three hours before finally announcing that the update had failed. Subsequently I tried the Terrain update and it appeared to work okay.

4. Learned something new, that the green check marks showing database status only mean that you've attempted the install. I thought it "read" the SD card and confirmed the update was successful, but apparently not.

5. Both the Garmin tech support guys were great to work with, but at the end of our session I was told that their Mac specialists in IT would have to get involved to figure out what's happening.

6. In other news, Garmin is creating a new database update process that will work for both Windows PC and Mac users. They're doing the Windows portion first, of course, but eventually the updates should work well for everyone.

7. I was told to expect a call yesterday after one of the Mac IT guys had a chance to view the record of the failed attempts. That didn't happen, but maybe today.
 
Comment about Garmin and Macbook. I started getting the spinning wheel of death just about every time I used my Macbook and was about to throw it in the trash, when I noticed that I had a new black triangular icon in the top toolbar, which was Garmin Express. I uninstalled this program and my issue has gone away. Coincidence?? I'm not sold that Garmin software is Apple compatible / stable.

I realize my comment above doesn't fix your issue with databases, but is additional info on the SWOD.
 
Thanks Curtis. Until I ran into this problem with databases, I got the blue or rainbow SWOD on my MacBook only when a program has locked up for some reason and I have to force quit, or when opening a program like iPhoto and I try to position the cursor to do something and the images haven't finished loading.

The SWOD on the Garmin update screen is gray, with lines that begin at 12 o'clock and rotate clockwise and fade out by the time they reach about 9 o'clock.

But your comment about Garmin software may be on point, in that the Garmin Database Update Utility that we have to run prior to beginning the update because we're using a Mac might be the source of this process hanging up. If I were to guess, that's where the problem lies.
 
Is this issue only with DB updates? I was able to download G3X system updates using my MacBook Pro with no issues.
 
Continuing issue with G3X updates on a Mac

System updates work fine on the Mac, as do all the database updates except FliteCharts.

Once it starts on that database, the first two parts of the process, downloading and transferring, proceed to completion without a hitch, showing a % completion and a progress bar.

The third step is "preparing", and it hangs up on this step without ever completing. It's happened every time I've tried it, and Garmin so far has no solution.

As for presenting up-to-date FliteCharts, my G3X system is no better than a boat anchor.
 
I spent another hour plus on the phone yesterday with Mark at Garmin customer service and once again we used the TeamViewer app. A member of the Mac team joined us, and for the first time we looked at whether there might be a problem on this end rather than in the database update utility. They tested the speed of my internet connection, which was fine, and used the Activity Monitor to evaluate what was going on as the update hit the snag in "preparing" step.

G3xpert Tim replied to an email from me and he is also aware of the problem.

Two initial suggestions arose from this attempt, both of of which were directed at the possibility that the problem might be caused by some glitch in the reliability/speed of my internet connection: 1) turn off the Time Machine auto backup function, and 2) try using a wired connection. Neither of these suggestions had any effect.

I received a call back from Mark in the afternoon yesterday, when I was flying, unfortunately, reporting that he had some additional information for me about possible solutions. I won't be able to reach him until after the holiday, but hopefully we can make some progress.

Updates to follow as they happen . . .
 
Garmin Mac Support. . . not

This is one of my real concerns with installing Garmin boxes in my -8. I have a 430W in my 180. It uses two identical data cards, one for Garmin data and one for Jepp data. Each has its own USB card reader. The Jepp reader, $50+/-, plugs into the port on my Mac and connects to Jepp via their App JDM. Click, click and it is updated in about 5 minutes. The Garmin reader, about $200+/-, requires a PC, either actual or emulated via another program ($$$). So we know Garmin could do it if they wanted to. Heck, why can't they both use the same card reader? The two, Garmin and Jepp, cooperated enough to create the product. . .

I have communicated with Garmin over the years on this subject and the person responsible for making this decision doesn't care about the Mac because there isn't a large enough installed base. That may have been true 10 years ago, but now the installed Mac base, within the aviation community, is over 30%. They are ignoring about a third of their potential/existing customers, Jepp proves it can be done.

I like the Garmin products, but I don't like the update 'goat rope'. . . particularly when I know it doesn't have to be like that.
 
Just yesterday I was able to do the version 4.0 software update on the G3X's with a mac running bootcamp. There wasn't a mac installer when I looked so had to boot up windows. Then I did the database updates on my mac and everything downloaded and updated fine including flitecharts. It took a while but no problems.

I'm curious; what version of mac os are you running? Have you tried on another system to eliminate some variables?
 
Thanks for your interest and inputs.

I'm running 10.8.5 on a MacBook Pro. Software updates were a hassle for my initial experience with the system in late 2013-early 2014 because Macs couldn't deal with .exe files. Through my own research, I found an application called The Unarchiver that allowed me to do that and install them. Since then this link http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=8899 has eliminated the necessity for that intermediate step.

Maybe I'm stubborn (ya think?), but I haven't tried another system because up until yesterday, no one at Garmin had even hinted at the problem being on my end of the process. All I heard was an admission with the hint of apology that they were aware of the problem, and as reported in a previous post on this thread, that a new download utility was in development that would work for both Macs and PCs. Based on that previous experience, I've expected (foolishly, perhaps?) to see a resolution arrive. So far, no luck.

With due respect to the forum member who suggested that I avoid the hassle and buy a PC to update my databases, I don't think it's too much to ask that Garmin treat all their customers with the same respect. Tell me in advance that I have to use a PC to obtain full database download capability, and then I have only myself to blame if I don't do that.

This is slightly off-point, but there's a corollary issue with the fact that the GDL-39 will only talk to Garmin Pilot for the iPad, and when I look at my buddies running WingXPro or ForeFlight, I want to find another solution. There's simply no comparison in the functionality.

A friend of mine happened to mention to a Garmin rep that one of the other iPad applications (don't remember which) had added the ability to load arrivals and departures into their flight plans on the iPad and the rep's reply, apparently, was something to the effect of "We have no plans to offer that."

With all this complaining, however, I'd like to make it clear that the individuals I've worked with have seemed more than eager to help. And when they told me back in the summer that I could expect a call from one of the Mac experts about this problem and that never happened, I don't blame the voice on the phone for that failure to follow up.

I'm hoping to be on the phone with Mark after the Thanksgiving holiday to get the report he called with yesterday afternoon and couldn't reach me. Wish I'd had a phone patch . . .
 
Database question

Mike,

I hope you don't mind what I hope is related to the title of your original post.

Question about data choices in fly garmin. Why would I not want to choose North America vs. United States for the flite charts? Is United States a subset of North America? Is the North America data simply larger and potentially slower to load or is there more to it?


This same choice applies to those of you in Canada.

Ed. Part of my confusion is probably due to the fact that I am redeeming a coupon and the cost difference is neglected by the coupon.

Thanks,

Jim
 
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Garmin Database Options

Jim,

I didn't purchase the US Lite Database Bundle because of this description: includes US VFR Navigation, Obstacles, FliteCharts, SafeTaxi, Airport Directory, and Terrain databases.

The Americas database Bundle includes: NavData, Obstacles, FliteCharts, SafeTaxi, Airport Directory, and Terrain databases.

I've always intended to have IFR capability, so the choice was driven by that.

Tosh McIntosh (Tango Mike)
 
Reply from g3x

I sent my question to the g3x team and got quick response that cleared me up.

"If you click on FliteCharts in your FlyGarmin view you can see the difference in coverage for the U.S. versus North American FliteCharts. As you said in your post, with a free coupon, you could choose either, but normally the North American is higher and you wouldn’t choose it if you just fly in the U.S.

Yes, it will take longer to download and install the North American, so I would never choose it (even if free) if I wasn’t going to Canada.

Thanks,
Steve"

Thanks Tosh for letting me use your thread!

Jim
 
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Reply from G3X

You're welcome, Jim. Feel free to hop on a thread of mine at any time.

I have no intention of flying outside of the US and would have definitely chosen US Lite and saved the difference had it not been for the words "includes US VFR navigation." Being forced to purchase a North American database to obtain US IFR navigation is, frankly, not customer friendly on the part of Garmin.

Tosh
 
Tosh,

Unless I don't understand something ( which happens ALL the time ) I don't think you have to buy the entire North America dataset to get IFR. I am planing on the $149 subscription and will use the IFR charts and plates on the g3x.

Jim
 
Jim,

This may be a case of not asking the question if you can't stand the answer, but it makes me wonder why the US Lite Database Bundle specifically says VFR navigation.

Another factor is that the G3X GPS is not an IFR certified navigator. You can use it to monitor progress of an IFR GPS providing external navigation information to the G3X, but not as a stand-alone navigator under IFR rules.

Tosh
 
@J, @TM,

The "Lite" bundle has a VFR navigation database using FAA data with little massaging, and no approach data.

The "Americas" bundle uses a Jeppesen massaged NavData database that includes approach data.

There is a new Garmin massaged navigation database that contains approach data that is being offered as part of a bundle supporting their Aera 660 solution. G3X Steve has hinted that this bundle "might" be available for G3X users in the future. Sadly, no date provided. The Aera price is $149 annually, so that's encouraging. I'm assuming the Jeppesen NavData licensing fees makes the "Americas" data package expensive compared to Garmin data.
 
I can certainly attest to the pain of Jeppesen's licensing fees. My G400W can only use the Jeppesen databases to the tune of $400+ bucks per year because no Garmin database is available for it.

Tosh
 
I can certainly attest to the pain of Jeppesen's licensing fees. My G400W can only use the Jeppesen databases to the tune of $400+ bucks per year because no Garmin database is available for it.

Tosh

Reading tea leaves, the newest G3X update mentions adding support for Garmin Navigation Data, so hopefully some good news is imminent. As a aside, I wonder if Garmin is getting deeper into the navdata business, and spreading it across its entire product line.....
 
Reading tea leaves, the newest G3X update mentions adding support for Garmin Navigation Data, so hopefully some good news is imminent. As a aside, I wonder if Garmin is getting deeper into the navdata business, and spreading it across its entire product line.....

Not sure I understand what the tea leaves are saying . . .

The G3X system already uses Garmin's Nav Data. As I understand it, the only reason the G400 does not is that when Garmin first offered the unit for sale, they didn't have a database to put in it, so they used Jeppesen's, which means I'm stuck with paying the higher cost if I want to keep the GPS current for legal IFR use.
 
Not sure I understand what the tea leaves are saying . . .

The G3X system already uses Garmin's Nav Data. As I understand it, the only reason the G400 does not is that when Garmin first offered the unit for sale, they didn't have a database to put in it, so they used Jeppesen's, which means I'm stuck with paying the higher cost if I want to keep the GPS current for legal IFR use.

Prior to this update and the yet to be released newer lower cost Garmin Nav database (for the G3X), the G3X only supported the full blown Jepp Nav database or the Garmin VFR Nav database that did not include approach info. The new functionality and hopefully soon to be released database is a brand new offering from Garmin which includes approach info. Looks like this is coming for the G3X due to the hints being dropped.

Whether or not the GNS/GTN follow suit is another question....
 
Prior to this update and the yet to be released newer lower cost Garmin Nav database (for the G3X), the G3X only supported the full blown Jepp Nav database or the Garmin VFR Nav database that did not include approach info. The new functionality and hopefully soon to be released database is a brand new offering from Garmin which includes approach info. Looks like this is coming for the G3X due to the hints being dropped.

Whether or not the GNS/GTN follow suit is another question....

Thanks for this. My guess is that waiting for a reasonable-cost option for the 400 will be futile, but maybe not . . .
 
Prior to this update and the yet to be released newer lower cost Garmin Nav database (for the G3X), the G3X only supported the full blown Jepp Nav database or the Garmin VFR Nav database that did not include approach info. The new functionality and hopefully soon to be released database is a brand new offering from Garmin which includes approach info. Looks like this is coming for the G3X due to the hints being dropped.

Whether or not the GNS/GTN follow suit is another question....

I actually kinda / sorta need this new data offering. Flying within the DC SFRA, and using the flyway between the BWI and DCA / ADW class Bravo airspace *almost* requires the use of the fixes / waypoints VPOOP and VPONX to keep you out of the FRZ and trouble with the FoD. The problem is that they are not contained in the Garmin VFR database included with the Mini and Lite bundles. The "workaround" is to use Garmin Pilot to upload a flight plan to the G3X. These fixes ARE contained in the basic Garmin Pilot navigation subscription. The G3X converts VPOOP and VPONX into user waypoints in the uploaded flight plan. I'd like the ability to program in those fixes natively...
 
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I actually kinda / sorta need this new data offering. Flying within the DC SFRA, and using the flyway between the BWI and DCA / ADW class Bravo airspace *almost* requires the use of the fixes / waypoints VPOOP and VPONX to keep you out of the FRZ and trouble with the FoD. The problem is that they are not contained in the Garmin VFR database included with the Mini and Lite bundles. The "workaround" is to use Garmin Pilot to upload a flight plan to the G3X. These fixes ARE contained in the basic Garmin Pilot navigation subscription. The G3X converts VPOOP and VPONX into user waypoints in the uploaded flight plan. I'd like the ability to program in those fixes natively...

Looks like you will soon get your wish based on all the clues being left around.
 
If and when this new offering happens, I guess the interesting question for some of us is going to be whether those of us who have a current G3X/G300 US Lite Database Bundle (annual subscription $149.99) will be able to switch over to the new one for the remainder of our subscription. :)
 
User waypoints

I actually kinda / sorta need this new data offering. Flying within the DC SFRA, and using the flyway between the BWI and DCA / ADW class Bravo airspace *almost* requires the use of the fixes / waypoints VPOOP and VPONX to keep you out of the FRZ and trouble with the FoD. The problem is that they are not contained in the Garmin VFR database included with the Mini and Lite bundles. The "workaround" is to use Garmin Pilot to upload a flight plan to the G3X. These fixes ARE contained in the basic Garmin Pilot navigation subscription. The G3X converts VPOOP and VPONX into user waypoints in the uploaded flight plan. I'd like the ability to program in those fixes natively...

Can't you just enter those as user waypoints in your G3X? Wouldn't that allow you to select them from within the G3X.

Patiently waiting for the new database pricing myself.
 
Can't you just enter those as user waypoints in your G3X? Wouldn't that allow you to select them from within the G3X.

Patiently waiting for the new database pricing myself.

Yea, I can. But then again, I'm assuming that other Vxxxx waypoints around the country are also not in the VFR database. Better to be able to bring them up through the G3X system, rather than kludge my way threw it.
 
This thread drifted far from the original poster's complaint. But I am having a similar issue: Can't get the flygarmin ap to update my SD cards for my GTN650 and non touch G3X. The updater *appears* to be working, but when I check the card files after the update, there are the appropriate folders present, but there is nothing in them.

Here's a letter I wrote to G3Xpert, but I was wondering if others are having this issue while I wait for a reply.... This is quite frustrating as it is not the first issue I have had with something that should be seamless, if not transparent. It's not my fault I use a macbook... If that's the problem.
*******************************
Dear G3Xpert:
I am having trouble updating my databases on the flygarmin ap.

I have a G3X two screen installation and a GTN650

I successfully updated the G3X card, and then I inserted another sd card, so that I can update both units at once and began the update process. It appeared to update, although rather quickly, but when I checked the card, there was no data. Here?s a picture of the second card files:

[screenshot of desktop with file viewer]


i then attempted to update the GTN card and got a similar result:


[screenshot of desktop with file viewer]


Can you please advise what I might be doing wrong? I can go ahead and use the first card to get the G3X?s up to date, but I am not sure what to do about the GTN. I tried different things like restarting the browser and I tried using the ?older method? of updating , as well as downloading the desktop downloader and reinstalling it. I also tried several different cards which I had used before. I would appreciate any help.

Thanks

Ed Neffinger
RV N93MC
 
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