What IFR navigator equipment is in your panel?

Jesse asked an interesting question and I know I'd be intested to know, as well. So, a poll: What do people have installed in their aircraft for IFR operations? GPS only? Nav radios only? Both? Which do you use?

I have a GTN 650 and an SL 30. Generally, I use GPS 99.9% of the time but practice VOR/LOC/ILS approaches, keep up with my VOR checks, and if I happen to be navigating to a VOR as an enroute waypoint I will switch it over to VOR NAV to make sure everything still works to include autopilot tracking.

Auburntsts said:

I have a GTN 650 and an SL 30. Generally, I use GPS 99.9% of the time but practice VOR/LOC/ILS approaches, keep up with my VOR checks, and if I happen to be navigating to a VOR as an enroute waypoint I will switch it over to VOR NAV to make sure everything still works to include autopilot tracking.

Click to expand...

So, for most intents and purposes, you would select option 3 on the poll, although you probably selected 4. I have a feeling a good number of the people who selected option 4 are in this same camp.

Jesse said:

So, for most intents and purposes, you would select option 3 on the poll, although you probably selected 4. I have a feeling a good number of the people who selected option 4 are in this same camp.

Click to expand...

Well yes I selected option 4 because there was only a binary option (yes or no) -- I do use it, just rarely and more for approaches than enroute, but that wasn't a choice.

I use my 430W almost exclusively and the SL30 for the occasional practice. While on a long cross country flight I will play with the SL30 using it to check my position with two VOR stations. Again just for fun as I have 3 different gps (430W, 496garmin, iPad) to really find out where I am. But, if the gps system did go down I might just be able to use the old VOR system to find my way to an airport. The downside is that VOR facilities are disappearing and this is rapidly becoming just an interesting piece of equipment to have on board. The ILS function of the SL30 will likely stay valid for a number of years as this remains a very useful approach system, and providing a VERY important alternative to gps only navigation during approach phase of IFR flight.

How many have IFR (both GPS and NAV) capability and are not IFR certified pilots? That would be me!

Now, I did pick option 4, because it did not say you need to be IFR current.
But I do use both.

On a trip out to CA, I was flying a corridor between two active MOA's and all three GPS's stopped working. I was also tracking a VOR and just switched over for the 15min they were out.

I have also lost GPS signal on approaches (in VFR conditions).
So now I use both the GPS approach and have the ILS or LOC tuned in. 3 buttons presses and I switch from GPS to NAV. Makes me feel better.

But, the NAV approaches are disappearing. 11R (Brenham, TX) VOR approach is no more. That was fun because it was using a VOR behind you for the approach.

My home field LOC is out quite frequently.

But would I install both again??? Depends on the cost difference. Under $1k, yes.

There's a thread on the blue board about VOR decommissioning.. Seems those pesky VOR's aren't going the way of ADF and LORAN quickly. Easily 10 yrs.

Case in point, all of the manufacturers still have NAV sides to their navigators.

So for me (I answered 4) better keep at least one NAV in that birdie. regardless of the flight rules you're under.

I have dual Garmin GNC 420W navigators and Skyview with its own GPS.

Also consider that as the VORs age, some of them are starting to have significant signal deterioration. Due to the repair cost of the VOR facility, we often see the VOR airway MEAs raised instead.

The AOPA article on the VOR minimum operational network is here: http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2015/November/24/FAA-begins-decommissioning-VORs

Approach often assigns the LOC 34 approach into KSGS, even when you've filed with /G. If you look at the proximity of KSGS with KMSP, there's a bit of congested airspace and when I asked I was told that the localizer approach has fewer conflicts with the RNAV approach. So I get to use the localizer a bit.

I'm somewhat ambivalent about the underlying nav tech - GPS is nicer for sure, but I feel like there are fewer failure modes with the older tech. I've had GPS integrity errors on an approach, for example, but haven't lost a localizer or glideslope during that phase of flight (admittedly, it's possible).

I flew from KTRL to KPEA, 3.2hrs IMC (hand flown - I enjoy it more than the AP) and found the VOR provided more boredom relief by using it as a way to validate the GPS-supplied position. It's a great backup, but not my primary long range nav.

They do a lot of GPS denial testing in New Mexico, so Nav capability is a must for flying in the system for me. Interestingly, my certified navigator (GNS530W) will flag bad GPS coverage during denial testing, but my non certified units typically don't know the difference. Clearly you want the certified unit to know if it is unreliable, so I'm not complaining.

GNS400W only, true IFR flying is about 25% of my flying. For me It was not worth the extra $3000-4000 for the VOR/NAV, very low probability I will require a VOR/NAV and am prepared to no-go if it were to happen. I wanted a VOR/NAV I just couldn't justify the price difference.

There are still a few airports with VOR/NAV based approaches with lower minimums than GPS/LPV minimums but generally I think the GPS approach gives you the lowest minimums. My home airport only has GPS/LPV approaches, 0 times in the last 5 years/500 hours that I couldn't make do without a VOR/NAV. That being said if I would've found a good deal on a 430/650 the archer antenna and coax is already installed......

I had Nav/ILS only, but

all of my X/C fuel stops have gone RNAV (GPS) only approaches. So, I have bitten a very expensive bullet and putting in a new radio stack, to include IFR GPS, with NAV/ILS capability ----- it's maybe a little dated, but just dialing in an ILS freq. and following the needles is still much simpler than the GPS setups.

R.

RONSIM said:

.... it's maybe a little dated, but just dialing in an ILS freq. and following the needles is still much simpler than the GPS setups.

R.

Click to expand...

For me it's the same process and the same level of complexity whether its ground based or space based Nav. By that I mean I build a flight plan then load the approach in the GPS regardless of the type of NAV Aid. The only difference is what NAV source is driving the needles past the FAF--sometimes it's GPS and the HSI needles are magenta, other times it's VOR/LOC and the needles are green.

Could I skip the flight plan and it fly the way you suggest, sure, but I prefer to keep the process the same even it is a bit more complex.