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Ethanol-free mogas now gone in my area

W

wrongway john

Well Known Member
At least in the Wichita Falls, TX area, four gas stations that used to sell ethanol free mogas are now all gone within a period of six weeks, when they previously used to supply it. I drove around all day yesterday trying to still find one (haven't yet), only to find they all went to ethanol. Previous to this many proudly displayed their ?Ethanol-Free? banners. Now they have replaced that with miniature stickers stating their fuel may contain up to 10% ethanol.

How is rest of the country looking? Still available?
 
wrongway john said:
At least in the Wichita Falls, TX area, four gas stations that used to sell ethanol free mogas are now all gone within a period of six weeks, when they previously used to supply it. I drove around all day yesterday trying to still find one (haven't yet), only to find they all went to ethanol. Previous to this many proudly displayed their ?Ethanol-Free? banners. Now they have replaced that with miniature stickers stating their fuel may contain up to 10% ethanol.

How is rest of the country looking? Still available?
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear of the demise of non-contaminated gas in your area. Please update the pure-gas website to reflect the latest status in your area:

http://pure-gas.org
 
Same in WA

The same thing happened here in Washington State. The story that I was told is that there was only one refinery in the state that produced ethanol free and they only dedicated a very small portion fo the month to producing it and they recently decided to stop altogether.

Pure-Gas.org still lists a few places in the state that sell it, largely marinas, but I don't know if those places still have it or they just haven't been taken off the list yet.

Very sad.
 
I'm abot 20 miles east of Indianapolis and the "Countrywide Co-ops" in Greenfield still sell pure gas. It's usually 25 - 30 cents more than their regular (which is a 10% ethanol blend). Countrywide runs commercials bragging about pumping there own American crude and having their own refinery so I guess they can do what they want. Kinda funny the farmers don't want ethanol in their tractor gas....
GZ
 
I did remove Allstar from the list, although the clerk lady said it was still ethanol free, I told her I didn?t see any banners anymore stating such. I thought I?d check just to make sure. Sure enough, she was mistaken. It had the full 10% ethanol in it. She was surprised, and was told they were being forced to quit selling it, but that they were told they would get notice, and get their stickers showing it had the ethanol in it. I told her to please let others know, and that I had a friend that just filled up with 150 gallons of their fuel at their store yesterday that was also reassured it didn?t have ethanol in it, and it was going to be going in a plane.

Don?t know how accurate the info is, but several posters are stating the EPA is making it illegal to sell mogas without the ethanol in it. I guess I?ll have to start adding another $10-$15.00 in hourly costs by staying with 100LL all of the time. 100 hours of flying translates to another $1,000-$1,500 a year. What a bummer. I hope you guys in other states fare better.
 
i have been testing regular car gas for quite a while. the ethanol varies for 0 to 10%. testing is easy. a test tube is all you need. :):)
 
Turbo?

Turbo, haven't you been using ethanol mogas for many years?
When you test for ethanol do you have a limit on what is acceptable?


How is rest of the country looking? Still available?
Click to expand...

Not available around here. The ethanol variety works just fine, don't know why you all fight it so hard.
 
ArlingtonRV said:
The same thing happened here in Washington State. The story that I was told is that there was only one refinery in the state that produced ethanol free and they only dedicated a very small portion fo the month to producing it and they recently decided to stop altogether.
Click to expand...
Refineries don't make gasoline with ethanol. It is added in the pipeline or terminal (in fairness, there may be a terminal at the refinery). The issue is that the terminal or distributor doesn't want to have separate storage for EtOH-free gasoline. You can thank the previous and current Congress and Presidents (and ADM and the Corn lobbies) for that.

Washington, BTW, has 4 decent sized refineries (not Texas-sized, but that's another story...) and 1 small one. Pretty amazing that they refine crude up in the PNW.

N427EF said:
Not available around here. The ethanol variety works just fine, don't know why you all fight it so hard.
Click to expand...
How about:
* Increased probability of vapor lock
* Increased solubility of water in gasoline, leading to corrosion problems
* Decreased fuel energy content = more fuel consumption for same power output

TODR
 
Last edited:
Ethanol free gas alternative

If you have a good relationship with your Co-op you may be able to
get your alcohol free gasoline. Mine will deliver 30 gal or 55 gal drums of
the premium unleaded or unleaded gas to my farm when needed with
no road use tax it is used in my old 450 international also
 
Real experience for a few hundred hours

If anything vapour lock risk decreases with ethanol.

The engine itself will run just fine on ethanol laden gas.

Fuel tanks will not corrode... At lease mine haven't

I have never had any issue with dissolved water in the gas.

I don't know if the standard mechanical fuel pump is resistant to ethanol.. I don't have a mechanical FP so I honestly don't know. The AFP FI system has flourosilicone seals which are not affected by ethanol.

The ethanol laden gas is less efficient.. about 7.5GPH is required for the same speed at 7.0gph on straight mogas or 100LL.

Ethanol laden gas will run happily Lean of peak.

Fuel tank drain orings will need to be replaced with flourosilicone.. available from McMaster carr.

Frank
 
In the meantime

use what is locally available, ethanol or not.


If anything vapour lock risk decreases with ethanol.
Click to expand...

100LL does offer a fairly substantial margin against vapor lock conditions
in airplane fuel systems.
In mogas, it is the lower octane rating that contributes in part to vapor lock scenarios not the ethanol in mogas. (Ethanol is the octane booster in mogas)
A poorly designed fuel system is the chief culprit in airplanes that tend to vapor lock, allowing fuel lines to get hot along with stagnant fuel in the engine compartment.

The engine itself will run just fine on ethanol laden gas.
Click to expand...
So does mine, almost 1000 Gallons burned last year.
Fuel tanks will not corrode... At lease mine haven't
Click to expand...
Mine haven't either (2 years old only)

I have never had any issue with dissolved water in the gas.
Click to expand...
Same here.

Ethanol contaminated gas has worked without problems for the well known Vanguard Squadron for more than a decade and none of them made any substantial changes to their fuel systems.
All of them used standard Lycoming mechanical fuel pumps.
There may be a slight decrease in power when burning mogas but I cannot detect it on my state of the art engine monitor.
FWIW I do wish the ethanol would go away, keep dreaming,
the truth is ethanol free mogas is going away, like it or not.

There are simply a lot of misconceptions about ethanol mogas but I am confident that will change once pure gas is no longer available.
 
New QuikTrip

A new QuikTrip opened last week about 5 blocks from my house. They sell both 10% ethanol(3.55/gal) and 0% ethanol(3.69/gal). They opened a new store about 3 miles east of me in February and it doesn't sell 0% ethanol. I've contacted QT's headquarters to see if 0% ethanol is going to be the policy at new constructions stores since they are putting in a store about 2 miles from of my hangar.
 
Drove to Chattanooga TN today to retrieve my parents after a visit with my aunt & uncle.

1st gas station I stopped at in East Lake TN had a 0E pump. Stopped in Meridian MS to top up; station had a 0E pump.

Based on my extensive survey showing 2 for 2, I think that they are coming back.

:)
 
N427EF said:
100LL does offer a fairly substantial margin against vapor lock conditions
in airplane fuel systems.
In mogas, it is the lower octane rating that contributes in part to vapor lock scenarios not the ethanol in mogas.
Click to expand...
Vapor lock is related to the vapor pressure of the fuel, which isn't really related to the octane rating.
frankh said:
If anything vapour lock risk decreases with ethanol.
Click to expand...
How is this true since EtOH is more volatile than the majority of gasoline components?

TODR
 
N427EF said:
There are simply a lot of misconceptions about ethanol mogas but I am confident that will change once pure gas is no longer available.
Click to expand...

You're probably right, and might include me as well. Seems like many of you have already went this route, and I like what I'm reading. I need to study my plane some more and find out what part manufacturers have to say about what I already have installed to see if it is compatible or not.

From what I?m gathering a checklist to run the ethanol mix would include:

Gas tank o-rings made out of fourosilicone or Viton seals.

If fuel injection, it needs the same type seals. I also have a AFP FI system so maybe I?m good here (1998).

Check mechanical and electrical fuel pump manufacturers for compatibility as well.

And I imagine not letting the plane sit more than three months on any mogas ethanol or not to prevent gumming.

I think I?ll stick to the two tank method, using the 100LL for taking off and landing, and ethanol-mogas mix on the other for cruise. That's what I was using previously with the straight mogas (no ethanol) with no problems.

Anything else?
 
Good plan John.

1: As far as I know gas tank caps are sold with viton seals by Vans and have been for about a decade now. Drain valve o rings must be replaced, I bought a pack of 20 from McMaster I'll send you a couple for free.

2:AFP injection is definitely compatible and so is AFP's electric fuel pump.
You can call Don Rivera and ask, while you have him on the phone tell him about your plans to use ethanol gas and you will be pleased with what he has to say.

3: Mechanical fuel pump. It's the wild card in the fuel system. No one is going to tell you that it is ethanol compatible but they have worked for the Vanguard Squadron for more than a decade in some cases burning almost pure ethanol.

4: Letting your plane sit around for too long is not a good idea no matter what kind of gas you have in it. Worst of all, it's not good for the pilot.

5: 100LL in one tank and 91 mogas in the other will take care of that
if you are worried about letting the mechanical pump sit around in mogas.

Anything else?
Click to expand...

If you plan on using mogas just for cruise, you are good to go.

Want to go a step further and prevent vapor lock in your fuel system?

I like my system with a constant flow return line or FrankH system with 2 electric fuel pumps. Whichever way you go you can test the limits using mogas. For example take the plane out on a 100 degree day, let the engine heat up and taxi around on mogas. You'll find the limits for your fuel system
and if and when vapor lock occurs.
My installation can tolerate OAT 103F degrees 200 F oil temp and a hot engine using 91 E10 mogas without any hint of vapor lock or detonation.
(It's as far as I tested, I am sure it will tolerate even more heat.)
Like you, I generally take off and land on 100 LL just because I have it in the left tank but I am perfectly comfortable using mogas in all regimens of flight.
 
The lower a "vapor pressure" the less likely it will change from liquid to vapor
and

boiling point for ethanol is 173F
Avgas starts at 167 and ends at 338 (because of the various ingredients)
Mogas even a wider range(and ingredients) with 100F - 400F

I would think Ethanol would have more of a chance for vapor lock, although some here have run it without. May have a need for a new ambient temp probe at the fuel pump and lines.
 
ExtraKatana said:
The lower a "vapor pressure" the less likely it will change from liquid to vapor
and

boiling point for ethanol is 173F
Avgas starts at 167 and ends at 338 (because of the various ingredients)
Mogas even a wider range(and ingredients) with 100F - 400F

I would think Ethanol would have more of a chance for vapor lock, although some here have run it without. May have a need for a new ambient temp probe at the fuel pump and lines.
Click to expand...

What are the numbers at 3 psi? 20 psi? 40 psi? (carb, a/c fuel injection, automotive fuel injection)



Charlie
 
The higher the boiling point of gasoline the lower the vapor pressure.
The lower the vapor pressure the less likely you'll get vapor lock.

I would like to know the numbers that Charlie asked for. One thing I do know is that pressurizing the fuel as in 25psi for fuel injection dramatically lowers the
vapor pressure. In other words, keep the fuel pressure up in the supply line and vapor lock is not likely to occur.
 
ETOH VP

the_other_dougreeves said:
How is this true since EtOH is more volatile than the majority of gasoline components?

TODR
Click to expand...

That was based on a few folks doing pressure test on fuel samples on this board... I was surprised at the results too.

It doesn't matter to me because I can run whatever I want with virtually zero chance of VL.. Wingroot mounted electric fuel pumps.

Frank
 
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