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Breakers or VPX?

J

JoeB

Active Member
I am a long way out from this, but while sitting at work thinking of the next phase I have stumbled on the VPX website. Has anyone used these? do they work, are they safe? Turst them as much as you trust a good ol breaker circuit?

just looking for some user reviews

thanks
joe
 
Search the forums for "VPX" or "Vertical Power" and you'll find many, many threads on the topic. Remember that most people naturally defend their own choices, which were probably correct for their situation, but does not necessarily mean that your situation is the same.

Paul
 
Paul is absolutely correct.

It took Marc a few years to convince me of my errors and I've come over to the dark side. I have a VP-X in my RV-10. I would have preferred a VP-200 or VP-400, but my budget wouldn't allow those options.

The VP-X does make installation go quicker and easier for those that have anxiety about electrical circuits. I'm biased and would recommend the VP-X, but only you can make the decision if it's the best option for you.

bob
 
I installed the VP-X in my RV-8 and couldn't be happier. In conjunction with the Dynon Skyview, I can monitor every aspect of the electrical system on one page, turn components on and off, see current draw and faults, etc. Very easy to install and programming is very flexible. If you DO choose to install the VP-X, I recommend running all spare wires to a terminal block for ease of adding and changing wiring (which I've already done several times with only 10 hours on the airplane). Good luck.
 
Jeff A said:
If you DO choose to install the VP-X, I recommend running all spare wires to a terminal block for ease of adding and changing wiring (which I've already done several times with only 10 hours on the airplane). Good luck.
Click to expand...

While I understand why you did the terminal strips, I'm not sure I would recommend that approach. You are adding another point of failure to the system. You really want to minimize the number of wiring breaks and/or connections for a variety of reasons.

I've had to replace pins already too and my VP-X is up underneath my panel. While I admit is a little awkward to position my head underneath the panel, but I can swap pins out in a couple minutes. I will also admit getting out of that position does take significantly longer.:eek:
 
I know people (me included) have a pretty strong tendency to recommend what they chose.... but now that my build is wrapping up, I still have to say that I am extremely pleased with the VP-X system I installed.

It was really one of the few things in my build that just worked. I also really like having the ability to view my electrical system and amp draw circuit by circuit... it really helped diagnose a problem I was having with my starter circuit.


Jason
 
I always recommend electronic circuit breakers to anyone putting in a modern electrical system and EFIS displays! :D

If you want to learn more, I am doing several electrical system presentations at OSH and we have a booth in Hangar B. Here is the preso schedule:

July 24th (Tuesday); 10:00 AM ? 11:15 AM;
Forum Pavilion 11 BRP/Rotax
Designing Electrical Systems For Your Plane ? We will focus on which systems work best for your plane and the impacts of various equipment choices as they relate to electrical requirements. Choices can depend on IFR vs. VFR, turbine, piston, air conditioning, etc. We?ll also discuss many of the new electrical products on the market such as backup batteries, alternators, and lights (LED & Incandescent). Also discussed will be fuses vs. circuit breakers and the newer Vertical Power equipment and its impact on electrical systems.
Presented by: Stein Bruch and Marc Ausman

July 24th (Tuesday); 1:00 PM ? 2:15 PM;
Forum Pavilion 08 NATCA
Computers That Fly the Plane in an Emergency ? A new technology called ?Runway Seeker? has been recently introduced in the experimental aircraft market. This technology automatically flies the plane to the best runway to land in case of an engine failure. How does the system work? What were some of the challenges in its design? Should you trust a computer to bring you to a runway under emergency conditions?
Presented by: Marc Ausman and Austin Meyer

July 25th (Wednesday); 1:00 PM ? 2:15 PM;
Forum Pavilion 11 BRP/Rotax
The VP-400 with Runway-Seeker ? The VP-400 is new backup EFIS for your airplane that has backup Synthetic Vision, Moving Map, Electronic Circuit Breakers, and climate control. It seeks out and the best runway at the best airport within gliding range in the event of engine failure or pilot incapacitation.
Presented by: Austin Meyer and Marc Ausman

July 28th (Saturday); 1:00 PM ? 2:15 PM;
Forum Pavilion 03 Sennheiser Aviation
Benefits of Electronic Circuit Breakers ? In the last decade, there has been a significant shift from the use of mechanical systems to all electric systems in experimental aircraft. We will compare traditional electrical systems with modern electronic circuit breakers.
Presented by: Marc Ausman
 
I've installed a VP-X sport in my -9A for several reasons: much easier & tidier installation than a swag of CB's over the panel, the ability to interface it with my SkyView setup, the speed-sensing trim, flap and landing light controllers, and it allows the use of some very nice switches I've found that cannot handle a great deal of current in their own right. :D
 
VP-X here

I have a VP-X and am very happy with it, after 100 hours on the plane. It is easy to use, interfaces well with my AFS 5000 EFISs, and has a bunch of functions that saved me time and space, money too. The RV-10ers are trying to talk Marc into changing the software to allow the somewhat unique RV-10 flap function between reflex and zero with no Vfe, but that's not a deal breaker.

It's top quality stuff and does some really important things well. I wasn't interested in the earlier models as they did more than I wanted/needed.
 
I didn't use them....

When I was working on my panel they were just coming out with their product. At that time I was thinking why should I bother, I know how to hook up wires and can read the documents on what goes were.
After all I am a software engineer and I know what an electron looks like. :D

Six years later, if I were building my panel for the first time, I am sure that I would be including a VPX. I have seen the information that my EFIS can get out of the VPX and it is impressive (remember that I am a software engineer :cool:).

Kent
 
Guess I'm still "old school", give me wires & breakers/fuses anyday and save the $$ for more gas :D
 
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I had a passing interest in Vertical Power when I did my electrical system couple of years ago, but passed in favor of a simpler (and IMHO, more reliable/serviceable) approach suggested in the AeroElectric Connection. I'm glad I went this route for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that VP has abandoned non-EFIS systems as "legacy". I'd be left with a dead-end at this point.

If you haven't read the AeroElectric connection, I'd strongly recommend it. It will give you the knowledge needed to make a sound decision based on your unique requirements.
 
A few years ago, I had many misgivings about Vertical Power's concept. Marc and his team have addressed almost everyone of my objections and I believe that their products are well thought out and engineered.

In the end, however, I went with discrete breakers, relay-controlled loads and custom designed trim and flap controllers. I have a few extra functions that could not be supported by the VPX.

But I have 40+ years of electronics design experience. For the average builder, the VP systems can simplify installation and provide easier debug and maintenance.

So the only significant objection is that 10 years from now, can you get parts and service? 3 years ago that was a big risk. Now, it's less so because VP has a track record.

So... I didn't use them, but I'd recommend them for most builders who have limited experience with electrons. Just remember to always connect your circuits with one gauge heavier wire than you think you need. It's easy to electronically increase a breaker limit beyond the capability of the wire, and you don't want to let any smoke out.
 
Here are a few things to think about when it comes to an electrical system.
First, the traditional way of wiring an airplane, circuit breakers, switches and such are perfectly good, acceptable and reliable. They are a little cheaper too.
Systems like the vpx give you some flexibility for your wiring and is easy to make changes. They have features that are customized for us, like flap disabling above certain speeds, trim setups and faulty alternator protection. With the vpx switches can be of your choice because they only carry signal and not the circuit load. I like the idea of having the circuit load going only from the vpx directly to the load. We use a system similar to this at my work and over the years have found them reliable. Actually we have had zero electronic circuit breaker failure. Study and price out each way and make a decision that is best for your particular mission.

bird
 
VPX IN RV-4

Hello everyone

Is there anyone who has installed a VPX in a RV-4 and if yes, where did you mount the box??

I'm running out of space in my -4 and I would love to see pictures of someone's installation..

I have a SKYVIEW in my -4 and sure would like to monitor and simplified my electrical system if I could .

Thanks

Bruno
[email protected]
 
Walt said:
Guess I'm still "old school", give me wires & breakers/fuses anyday and save the $$ for more gas :D
Click to expand...

I'm pretty much with Walt on this one. My RV-6 (not built by me) has an EXP Bus system with polyfuses and I don't particularly like it. Someday, it will likely be "upgraded" to normal breakers. Now if I were building a new plane with a megabuck glass panel and a large budget, I'd probably seriously consider the VP gear due to the integration with today's EFIS/EMS systems. But on a simpler aircraft, good old switches/fuses/breakers make too much economic sense to not use them.
 
Why you don't like it ?

Neal@F14 said:
I'm pretty much with Walt on this one. My RV-6 (not built by me) has an EXP Bus system with polyfuses and I don't particularly like it. Someday, it will likely be "upgraded" to normal breakers. Now if I were building a new plane with a megabuck glass panel and a large budget, I'd probably seriously consider the VP gear due to the integration with today's EFIS/EMS systems. But on a simpler aircraft, good old switches/fuses/breakers make too much economic sense to not use them.
Click to expand...

Is there any specific reason you don't like it ?
 
vpx

My research had been positive and decided to go with VPX-sport for my EAB rv12. Started installing the VPX last night with the help of my friend Ryan. So far it looks like it will be a clean install.
.
vpx.JPG
 
I had already decided on a GRT Sport EFIS and had started wiring with fuses and fuseblocks. Although I am on a tight budget I keep debating the VPX-Sport for my VFR plane. I liked the built in support for the trim and flaps and being able to see what my electrical system is doing on the EFIS. The wife okayed the purchase so I rewired the plane for the VPX. I like the situational awareness viewing the electrical system gives me and I haven't even flown yet.

I have a one axis safety trim box for sale if someone needs one. Just PM me.
 
Time is money they say. The VP-X costs money but looks like it will save a bunch of time. In a previous life I was in R&D electronics for Chrysler which means only that they haven't made a circuit, wire, breaker or switch that scares me. I would happily wire my plane the old fashioned way with complete confidence that it would work as designed...but I bought a VP-X...because time matters to me. I have precious little of it and I want this plane in the air.

Now if I could only decide where to mount the **** thing.
 
bignose said:
Is there any specific reason you don't like it ?
Click to expand...

Several reasons.

First, I don't believe that polyfuses belong in an aircraft. If something blows a fuse/breaker, you need to know about it ASAP, it needs to stay off until you manually intervene and you don't need the possibility of an intermittent loose wiring connection somewhere "resetting" the polyfuse without your commanded input.

Second, the LED info panel that comes with the EXP Bus is impossible to see in daylight, even with the brightness turned all the way up. Basically I cannot easily tell if a polyfuse has tripped or not in bright daylight, and the built in LED bar graph amp meter is ultra cheesy and does not read very stable (tested my charging system with a real amp meter and its fine).

Third is that the single-sided printed circuit board is full of components sticking up and supported only by their leads soldered into the board and stick way up above the board where vibration is guaranteed to cause fatigue cracks. I used to be an electronics tech back in high school/college and repaired way too many consumer electronics items and guitar amps/sound gear with cracked solder connections and broken wire leads that were constructed the same way as the EXP Bus (which looks just like an old Peavey guitar amp board's construction) and know from experience that stuff built like this is too vulnerable to vibration-induced damage.

I could go on... but basically, when I see an airplane built with rugged individual circuit breakers, toggle breakers, toggle switches and lots of tefzil wiring bundles that looks all the world like the insides of a 1950's military aircraft, it gives me a lot more confidence in the electricals than to see a guitar amp style single-sided circuit board from the 1980's behind the panel of my plane.
 
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Walt said:
Guess I'm still "old school", give me wires & breakers/fuses anyday and save the $$ for more gas :D
Click to expand...

Neal@F14 said:
I'm pretty much with Walt on this one. My RV-6 (not built by me) has an EXP Bus system with polyfuses and I don't particularly like it. Someday, it will likely be "upgraded" to normal breakers. Now if I were building a new plane with a megabuck glass panel and a large budget, I'd probably seriously consider the VP gear due to the integration with today's EFIS/EMS systems. But on a simpler aircraft, good old switches/fuses/breakers make too much economic sense to not use them.
Click to expand...

As an Electrical Engineer, I agree with you guys.
Fuses are the lightest and least expensive way to go. I do not see much in the way of time savings of one method over the other during installation. I prefer to stay way from Software and fancy products that provide circuit interruption when an overload happens. The purpose of a fuse / circuit breaker / circuit interrupter is to PROTECT the wiring.
 
Jeff,

I see you've got an access door in the bulkhead from the baggage compartment, how does that work with the way you've mounted your VP-X?

Any other photos of the install?

With regard to the original question, it's an extra cost yes, but if you're fitting a compatible EFIS it seems to make excellent sense to integrate and utilise. It's easy to be wary of "modern ways", but I think the VP-X is a smart idea.
 
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1st and current panel for my plane I went with fuses. Works fine....but...my new panel will be VP-X based.

I just like good technology. The VP-X and the integration with the G3X is modern technology. Nothing wrong with old technology either.

Some people are just more resistant to change than others.

RV6_flyer said:
As an Electrical Engineer, I agree with you guys.
Fuses are the lightest and least expensive way to go. I do not see much in the way of time savings of one method over the other during installation. I prefer to stay way from Software and fancy products that provide circuit interruption when an overload happens. The purpose of a fuse / circuit breaker / circuit interrupter is to PROTECT the wiring.
Click to expand...
 
Some additional clarification:

There's a picture of a VP system mounted in an RV-4 at the bottom of the page here: http://verticalpower.com/gallery/ . I've got a bunch of mounting pictures people have sent us and will post them up there soon.

The technology in the EXP Bus and the VP-X are very different. The issues that Neal mentions above do not exist in the VP-X.
 
MCA said:
The technology in the EXP Bus and the VP-X are very different. The issues that Neal mentions above do not exist in the VP-X.
Click to expand...
Yep. The VP equipment appears to be very well engineered on purpose for the harsh physical environments of an aircraft. The EXP Bus in my plane is certainly not.

And as I mentioned in my first response to this thread, if I could afford to build a new plane with a big-dollar high-tech glass panel, the VP system would definitely be seriously considered. I'm not opposed to new technology at all, in fact I embrace it wholeheartedly when appropriate. In a simple, legacy-style RV, with basic VFR instruments and equipment, however, the good old fashioned proven electrical technology is hard to beat for value and reliability.
 
Wiring Block

Jeff - In the album you posted, can you tell me where you got the wiring block in picture #8? It looks like exactly what I have been looking for.
 
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