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3rd Class Medicals a thing of the past??

donaziza

Well Known Member
The FAA has reviewed the AOPA Air Safety Institute?s aeromedical online course and confirmed that it meets the third class medical reform requirements that Congress created last summer. Pilots would need to complete the course, which AOPA will offer for free, every two years in addition to seeing their personal physician every four years to operate under the law.


AOPA provides medical training
AOPA preps online medical course to meet requirements expected in new pilot medical certification rule.
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?We worked with a lot of constituents to get this course done?. We?ve worked with a number of doctors, general practitioners as well as AMEs,? said AOPA President Mark Baker.

AOPA AD&D Protection Plan In reminding pilots that they will continue to have the responsibility to assess their health before every flight, Baker remarked about the course, ?It?s a good assessment to yourself.?
The course covers a variety of health subjects, including the importance of exercise and diet and their effect on your performance in the cockpit, as well as providing in-depth information on heart health and diabetes. The course concludes with a quiz. Pilots MUST pass in order to earn the certificate that is kept in their logbooks for reference if the FAA were ever to ask. Those not passing the first time can review the course and retake the quiz until they pass. AOPA will notify pilots when the course is available to take.

The FAA is expected to publish the third class medical reform final rule soon. In December, the agency indicated that it would release the third class medical reform final rule in January. Based on the legislation that President Barack Obama signed into law July 15, 2016, the FAA must publish the final rule within 180 days of that date. The final rule is expected to include the effective date that pilots can begin operating under the new reforms.

?We?re looking forward to the final rule and implementation date from the FAA,? said Baker. ?This has been a long time coming. AOPA and our members fought hard for reforms, and we hear every day from pilots who can?t wait to fly under the new rule.?

AOPA will notify members as soon as the final rule is published and will review it in detail to provide answers for any questions pilots might have. AOPA also is preparing a suite of online resources for pilots and physicians to help them make use of the new rule and ensure implementation goes smoothly.
 
Clarification........

The 3rd class medical is not going away. It will not be required for a large percentage of operations but will still be required for some aircraft.
 
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The 3rd class medical is not going away. It will not be required for a large percentage of operations but will still be required for some aircraft.

And it will still be available for any pilot who wishes to be certified via 3rd class instead of Sport Pilot or the new medical protocol. For some pilots with no medical issues 3rd Class Medical may be less of a hassle than the new medical program.
 
And it will still be available for any pilot who wishes to be certified via 3rd class instead of Sport Pilot or the new medical protocol. For some pilots with no medical issues 3rd Class Medical may be less of a hassle than the new medical program.

Agreed (and I have to enter 10 characters)
 
And it will still be available for any pilot who wishes to be certified via 3rd class instead of Sport Pilot or the new medical protocol. For some pilots with no medical issues 3rd Class Medical may be less of a hassle than the new medical program.

Indeed ...
 
And it will still be available for any pilot who wishes to be certified via 3rd class instead of Sport Pilot or the new medical protocol. For some pilots with no medical issues 3rd Class Medical may be less of a hassle than the new medical program.

Especially if you are under 40. 5 years between medicals is pretty sweet.
 
And it will still be available for any pilot who wishes to be certified via 3rd class instead of Sport Pilot or the new medical protocol. For some pilots with no medical issues 3rd Class Medical may be less of a hassle than the new medical program.

Not too sure about that.

One option may be to see your AME, but as a registered physician rather than an FAA AME.

If you have some conditions that previously needed OK City approval (aka delay) you might get the "counselling" needed with the new system instead and the log book completed check list rather than a report to the FAA.
 
And it will still be available for any pilot who wishes to be certified via 3rd class instead of Sport Pilot or the new medical protocol. For some pilots with no medical issues 3rd Class Medical may be less of a hassle than the new medical program.

Not too sure about that.

One option may be to see your AME, but as a registered physician rather than an FAA AME.

If you have some conditions that previously needed OK City approval (aka delay) you might get the "counselling" needed with the new system instead and the log book completed check list rather than a report to the FAA.

Gil, please note the bold portion of my original post.
 
I feel like a nag on this issue, but one more argument for continuing with the Class 3 route is that maintaining your medical via the new system will not allow you to exercise the privileges of pilot in command outside of the US. No crossing borders to travel into Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, etc.

Could change, but right now there is absolutely no push to adopt a similar system in Canada, which could allow flight across your northern border, and virtually no push to get ICAO to change its standards either.
 
I feel like a nag on this issue, but one more argument for continuing with the Class 3 route is that maintaining your medical via the new system will not allow you to exercise the privileges of pilot in command outside of the US. No crossing borders to travel into Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, etc.

Could change, but right now there is absolutely no push to adopt a similar system in Canada, which could allow flight across your northern border, and virtually no push to get ICAO to change its standards either.

Yup. This. Since it's not supported by ICAO, it's a non-starter for me, as I intend to fly to Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, etc. I did hear somewhere that the Bahamas were looking to change their laws to allow for the new US regs as so much of their flying tourists come from the US, but I don't know that anything is guaranteed.
 
I feel like a nag on this issue, but one more argument for continuing with the Class 3 route is that maintaining your medical via the new system will not allow you to exercise the privileges of pilot in command outside of the US. No crossing borders to travel into Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, etc.

Could change, but right now there is absolutely no push to adopt a similar system in Canada, which could allow flight across your northern border, and virtually no push to get ICAO to change its standards either.

The easiest "push" would be to simply say that foreign pilots flying foreign registered planes in Canadian airspace must meet the requirements of their home country.

Might be a concept that is too simple for bureaucrats...:)
 
Yup. This. Since it's not supported by ICAO, it's a non-starter for me, as I intend to fly to Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, etc. I did hear somewhere that the Bahamas were looking to change their laws to allow for the new US regs as so much of their flying tourists come from the US, but I don't know that anything is guaranteed.

My crystal ball is cloudy right now but the Bahamas have always changed their aviation laws to accommodate GA from the US so I can see this happening there. Mexico and others have not cared much for what the US does and follow ICAO regulations much closer. So, for people like me who fly outside the US, keeping a 3rd class makes sense. YMMV
:cool:
 
I would think they eventually work that out with Canada too. After all our US registered experimental RV's are not complying with ICAO standards either and there is a blanked approval to fly them into Canadian airspace. This didn't require any new law in Canada... .

It's difficult to negotiate these kind of things before the US regulation is final.

Oliver
 
Not too sure about that.

One option may be to see your AME, but as a registered physician rather than an FAA AME.

If you have some conditions that previously needed OK City approval (aka delay) you might get the "counselling" needed with the new system instead and the log book completed check list rather than a report to the FAA.

Great point Gil. I know there has been some concern over whether family Dr's will want the liability associated with these new exams. AME's already have this covered and will likely come up to speed quickly on the new protocol. If their lobby group is smart, they are working with the FAA to make sure they can do this work and then the AME's can market this service to their 3rd class clientele as the easiest way to get the new exams done.

I also hope that AOPA or EAA is working on a document that their members will be able to give to their Dr's that explain how this program works and ease the concerns over unfamiliarity and liability.

Larry
 
I also hope that AOPA or EAA is working on a document that their members will be able to give to their Dr's that explain how this program works and ease the concerns over unfamiliarity and liability.

Larry

They are:

"AOPA also is preparing a suite of online resources for pilots and physicians to help them make use of the new rule and ensure implementation goes smoothly."
 
Yup. This. Since it's not supported by ICAO, it's a non-starter for me, as I intend to fly to Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, etc. I did hear somewhere that the Bahamas were looking to change their laws to allow for the new US regs as so much of their flying tourists come from the US, but I don't know that anything is guaranteed.

Question: Does Canada an/or ICAO currently accept 5 years as the duration for 3rd class (under 40) medicals? If not, how does that work for pilots flying into Canada?
 
I would think they eventually work that out with Canada too. After all our US registered experimental RV's are not complying with ICAO standards either and there is a blanked approval to fly them into Canadian airspace. This didn't require any new law in Canada... .

It's difficult to negotiate these kind of things before the US regulation is final.

Oliver
Where do you get that experimental aircraft don't comply with ICAO? How do you think manufacturers like Piaggio, Embraer, etc flight test their aircraft for certification? They are experimental before being certified.
:cool:
 
Here are the various types of "Experimental" Special Airworthiness Certificate available from the FAA:

  1. Research and development — an aircraft whose purpose is to test new design concepts, equipment, or operating techniques
  2. Showing compliance with regulations — a prototype aircraft that is built for the purposes of demonstrating the airworthiness of a design
  3. Crew training - an aircraft used solely for training that, for some reason, does not have a standard certificate
  4. Exhibition
  5. Air racing
  6. Market surveys — a sales demonstration aircraft
  7. Operating amateur-built aircraft
  8. Operating primary kit-built aircraft
  9. Operating light-sport aircraft
  10. Unmanned Aircraft Systems
Mfgr's flight testing their aircraft would have a #2. It's possible that not all of these Experimental certificates are ICAO compliant.
"ICAO" are only accepted recommendations that countries follow as they see fit. FWIW I have flown my experimental airplane to every country in North America including Cuba with no problems. As long as it has a valid certification (this includes the experimental ones you itemized) they comply with ICAO recommendations .

Presently the only country that does not accept any experimental aircraft is Singapore. They do not follow ICAO in that aspect. Chile didn't accept experimental aircraft until a group of RV owners (that post here quite often) cornered their FAA and got it accepted.

:cool:
 
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Not too sure about that.

One option may be to see your AME, but as a registered physician rather than an FAA AME.

If you have some conditions that previously needed OK City approval (aka delay) you might get the "counselling" needed with the new system instead and the log book completed check list rather than a report to the FAA.

This seems like a great idea but appears to be prohibited under the new rules, specifically: Page 15, https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/final_rule_faa_2016_9157.pdf

Consistent with the Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners and online information on the Aerospace Medical Certification Subsystem (AMCS), the FAA considers an application to be completed once the AME imports the individual?s MedXPress application data into AMCS.
17 If an individual submits a MedXpress application but the information is never imported into AMCS by an AME (e.g., the individual never makes an appointment or does not show up for the appointment), then the un-mported application would not be completed and, as such, the FAA would have no basis to make a denial or other certification action.18 Therefore, any un-imported application would not be subject to the portion of section 2307 relating to ?completed and denied? applications, and the individual would look to the most recent application where the FAA either issued or denied a medical certificate in order to determine eligibility under this rule.

After importing a MedXPress application into AMCS, the AME may take one of three actions on the completed application. The AME may:

(1) issue a medical certificate;

(2) defer issuance to the FAA; or

(3) deny the issuance of a medical certificate. Guidance to AMEs makes clear that once the AME has imported the individual?s application in MedXpress, the AME is required to transmit the application to the FAA,19 regardless of whether


(a) the applicant leaves the AME office in the middle of the examination,
(b) all elements of the AME?s examination have been accomplished, or
(c) the applicant does/does not provide all additional information
required by the AME or the FAA. 20 Whenever an AME defers an examination, the FAA makes a determination on that application (denial or issuance)....

Does anyone know if an AME can conduct the exam with the intent to advise without importing and opening the MedXPress application?
 
This seems like a great idea but appears to be prohibited under the new rules, specifically: Page 15, https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/final_rule_faa_2016_9157.pdf

Consistent with the Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners and online information on the Aerospace Medical Certification Subsystem (AMCS), the FAA considers an application to be completed once the AME imports the individual?s MedXPress application data into AMCS.
17 If an individual submits a MedXpress application but the information is never imported into AMCS by an AME (e.g., the individual never makes an appointment or does not show up for the appointment), then the un-mported application would not be completed and, as such, the FAA would have no basis to make a denial or other certification action.18 Therefore, any un-imported application would not be subject to the portion of section 2307 relating to ?completed and denied? applications, and the individual would look to the most recent application where the FAA either issued or denied a medical certificate in order to determine eligibility under this rule.

After importing a MedXPress application into AMCS, the AME may take one of three actions on the completed application. The AME may:

(1) issue a medical certificate;

(2) defer issuance to the FAA; or

(3) deny the issuance of a medical certificate. Guidance to AMEs makes clear that once the AME has imported the individual?s application in MedXpress, the AME is required to transmit the application to the FAA,19 regardless of whether


(a) the applicant leaves the AME office in the middle of the examination,
(b) all elements of the AME?s examination have been accomplished, or
(c) the applicant does/does not provide all additional information
required by the AME or the FAA. 20 Whenever an AME defers an examination, the FAA makes a determination on that application (denial or issuance)....

Does anyone know if an AME can conduct the exam with the intent to advise without importing and opening the MedXPress application?

yes... I knew that.

My suggestion was to make an appointment for a Basic Med advisory visit, not a 3rd class medical visit. Together a checklist per the new standards can be completed - no FAA notification or MedXpress required.

The AME meets the FAA definition of a licenced physician (I hope :) )
 
If I go to an AME as my personal physician and not as an AME, I would not complete a MedXPress application.

As far as I am concerned, I filled out my last MedXPress application last year prior to the bill becoming an ACT.
 
The FAA's new Program named "BasicMed" was announced today. See the aopa web site. This link may require AOPA login privileges.

The link to the FAA Final Rule is provided on the FAA web site. Warning: It's a 77 page pdf file.

The FAA's new medical program as described in the Final Rule is called "BasicMed" but it's also known as "Alternative Pilot Physical Examination and Education Requirements." So now we have another acronym - APPEER.

Let the jokes begin...
 
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This will probably become clearer as we get closer to the May 1 date, but wanted to get an opinion here.
If you had a third class medical May 1, 2015, does that count toward the required physician visit under the new rule?
In other words, would it fulfill the doctor visit requirment through May 2019 as long as you do the online course.
I havent seen anything that addrsses this specifically.
Anybody have input?
 
"ICAO" are only accepted recommendations that countries follow as they see fit. FWIW I have flown my experimental airplane to every country in North America including Cuba with no problems. As long as it has a valid certification (this includes the experimental ones you itemized) they comply with ICAO recommendations .

Presently the only country that does not accept any experimental aircraft is Singapore. They do not follow ICAO in that aspect. Chile didn't accept experimental aircraft until a group of RV owners (that post here quite often) cornered their FAA and got it accepted.

:cool:

This will probably become clearer as we get closer to the May 1 date, but wanted to get an opinion here.
If you had a third class medical May 1, 2015, does that count toward the required physician visit under the new rule?
In other words, would it fulfill the doctor visit requirment through May 2019 as long as you do the online course.
I havent seen anything that addrsses this specifically.
Anybody have input?

I cannot recall where I saw it but I think the answer is 'no', unless your AME is willing to also sign the check list as your personal physician. Third class medicals remain at 2 years (over 40) while personal doctor sign offs go to 4 years. Apparently looking at your anus is a big deal, as my AME has never done so.
 
I would think they eventually work that out with Canada too. After all our US registered experimental RV's are not complying with ICAO standards either and there is a blanked approval to fly them into Canadian airspace. This didn't require any new law in Canada... .

Oliver


Um...yes it did. Canada adopted rules nearly identical to US rules on amateur built aircraft. Even so, for years we could not import flying amateur builts into Canada, and there was no blanket approval for experimentals from either country to fly in the other. Eventually both countries recognized that their standards were close enough that pilots from either nation could, with minimal fuss, obtain a letter of authorization allowing them to fly in the other country.

Precedent is not encouraging; American Sport Pilot certificate holders can't fly in Canada, and Canadian Recreational Pilot certificate holders (quite similar to Sport Pilot) can't fly in the US. Why? Because neither is a "license" that meets an ICAO standard; they are a permit that is recognized only by their home country. Same issue with the medical certification change; doesn't meet an ICAO standard, therefore will not be recognized outside of the US until and unless Canada or other nations, adopts similar rules and chooses to recognize a non-standard standard, or ICAO adopts a similar standard. Transport Canada is not going to grant privileges to US pilots that it refuses to grant to Canadians, and no one should expect them to.

What US pilots should be advocating for is for their representatives to ICAO to be lobbying hard for ICAO to adopt a standard that conforms to the new US rules. To date, and I bold-face this for emphasis, American representatives at ICAO have made no such request, and according to reports I've read from ICAO, such a request is not anticipated any time soon

As another poster noted, it has been difficult to do this before the final rules were released. Hopefully it will happen now!
 
What US pilots should be advocating for is for their representatives to ICAO to be lobbying hard for ICAO to adopt a standard that conforms to the new US rules. To date, and I bold-face this for emphasis, American representatives at ICAO have made no such request, and according to reports I've read from ICAO, such a request is not anticipated any time soon

EXACTLY my thinking. The American representatives (read FAA) have a LOT of influence within ICAO. Not enough to force anything on them but can "sway" enough countries to implement something IF they really want it. Otherwise we are just beating a dead horse.

:cool:
 
I cannot recall where I saw it but I think the answer is 'no', unless your AME is willing to also sign the check list as your personal physician. Third class medicals remain at 2 years (over 40) while personal doctor sign offs go to 4 years. Apparently looking at your anus is a big deal, as my AME has never done so.

Am I the only one who has had his butt fondled by an AME?!? :eek: Checking for the elusive hemroid I guess...
 
.....
Same issue with the medical certification change; doesn't meet an ICAO standard, therefore will not be recognized outside of the US until and unless Canada or other nations, adopts similar rules and chooses to recognize a non-standard standard, or ICAO adopts a similar standard. Transport Canada is not going to grant privileges to US pilots that it refuses to grant to Canadians, and no one should expect them to.
...

You are assuming full reciprocity.

A simple compromise (for both the US and Canada) would be for visiting pilots flying aircraft licensed in their own country to fly under their own country medical regulations.

IMO a much easier task.
 
Insurance companies

Somebody here on VAF said, maybe the insurance companies wouldn't go along with the new rules. So I thought H-m-m-m, good thought. So I called my agent (Falcon in Texas) and asked. My policy is Global Aerospace. He said none of the insurance companies have commented yet. But he was sure Global Aerospace would go along with the new rules. RV's with fixed gear shouldn't be a problem.

What they would probably refuse is an old guy, with a retractable gear, twin engine, taking off in night IFR with his kids on board.:eek:

Stay tuned.:cool:
 
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