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What is this part?

rotoiti

rotoiti

Well Known Member
Hi all,

I discovered that the inboard right aileron hinge has elongated holes and probably needs to be replaced. Here are the photos (sorry for one that is out of focus).
http://goo.gl/ZNFXvO
http://goo.gl/i7dGc8

Does it need to be replaced? It looks to me like it does, since there is significant play in the right aileron at that hinge.

I bought my plane flying so I have no recollection of building this part. Is this A-1007-R-PC ?

Thanks!
 
If I recall correctly, that should be a rod end in there, and it should be installed so the only place for motion is between the ball and the banjo end. It should not be free to rotate on the bolt, and the bolt should not be free to move around in the fitting.

From your photos, it is hard to determine if that is a rod end or not.

ZNFXvO


Check the plans..................
 
Thanks Mike, sorry for not being specific enough.

The pictures are made from under the right aileron, looking at the most inboard aileron hinge. The right aileron is fully deflected up so in the top left corner you're looking at a flap inside.

I'll try to take a better picture tomorrow.

Which plans would have this? I have checked Aileron Actuation page 23-9, that's where I got A-1007 from. Is that likely given what I can convey here?
 
rotoiti said:
Which plans would have this? I have checked Aileron Actuation page 23-9, that's where I got A-1007 from. Is that likely given what I can convey here?
Click to expand...

I need to check the plans to be sure, will get back to you tomorrow.
 
I don't have the plans handy at the moment, but from memory, it appears that there are at least some washers that are missing. It doesn't look right, but without the plans in front of me, I can't say why. I know this doesn't help you much at the moment.
 
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It is the A-1007. The rod end attaches on the upper end of this bracket, the elongated hole is the hinge pivot point.
 
This definitely needs to be addressed. There is a spacer missing besides the holes being elongated, and I can't tell if the bearing is there or not. Any "slop" in the hinges has the potential for causing flutter.
 
you mean this?
ip7Uj2vmj


or this?
pbv2Vwt9j




The elongated hole should be addressed quickly.

I would replace the A-1007-L (or -R). Call Vans and order one. It is bolt on.
 
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Mel said:
This definitely needs to be addressed. There is a spacer missing besides the holes being elongated, and I can't tell if the bearing is there or not. Any "slop" in the hinges has the potential for causing flutter.
Click to expand...

The spacer is showing on the second pic that is linked. It doesnt look like it can do the job, however, due to the elongation of the holes - hard to tell in the pic.

As another poster said, this is an easy fix since you have the older style attach bracket - two AN bolts I think. The newer style aileron bracket has one half that is riveted to the end aileron rib. Definitely a quicker fix with your style.
 
aleron bracket

Miro, if you ever come up to STS there are several of us Tech Counselors that will look at it for you. Looks like a simple fix, but not a one hour fix. Steve
 
Mike D, the second one. Vans has A-1007-1 in the inventory so that's what I ordered.

Mel, would you suggest to ground the plane until this is fixed?

Thank you, everyone, for the replies!
 
rotoiti said:
Mike D, the second one. Vans has A-1007-1 in the inventory so that's what I ordered.
Mel, would you suggest to ground the plane until this is fixed?
Thank you, everyone, for the replies!
Click to expand...

If the aileron can be moved vertically, or horizontally on that hinge, I would DEFINITELY ground the airplane until it is repaired. In other words, if there is any slop in any direction.
 
The part arrived today but it is the newer, rivet-on part.

Note to self, when in doubt, call Vans. Not all parts are available online. There is a difference between A-1007-L, A-1007-R and A-1007-1. Sigh.

Ordered a correct one, Fedex is going to be happy with all those shipping charges :-/
 
I removed the aileron today and uninstalled the bracket. Here is a photo of the bracket with the original screw inserted for reference:
http://goo.gl/dk1Xhq
IMG_20150218_173610.jpg


Not nice. Not nice at all.
 
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Bolt length

I am sure you looked at this but it looks like the bolt was too long or lacking washers to prevent nut from bottoming out on threads.
 
A good thing to keep in mind during preflight is that RV's by design have very low friction (if constructed and assembled correctly) / low slop control systems.

This makes grabbing and jiggling all control surfaces a very good pre-flight inspection tool. If you feel much friction, or any amount of play it is time for a deeper investigation.

An added suggestion (since it sounds like you were not the original builder).....
Get a copy of the plans. It is indispensable for maintaining the airplane, not to mention knowing you are ordering the correct part.
 
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I got the copy of the plans but to look this up I used the electronic form of the plans (which I scanned from prepurchased plans when I began to build).

The plane I purchased had the older, bolt on design (which is actually a blessing in disguise since I'd probably have to rebuild the aileron otherwise). I should have looked at the builder-supplied plans (I have those as well).

I have not yet looked at the bolt length, waiting for the new bracket to arrive tomorrow. The bolt was actually quite snug length-wise so not sure how the bolt being too long could contribute to this situation.

The question is how could this happen? I doubt the builder enlarged the hole, so it must have been an incorrect bolt I guess?
 
rotoiti said:
The question is how could this happen? I doubt the builder enlarged the hole, so it must have been an incorrect bolt I guess?
Click to expand...

My guess would be that the bolt has been loose for a while.
Either because it was too long and the nut was bottomed out, or it was never fully torqued.

As already mentioned (I think?) it could be the correct length bolt but incorrect spacer length..... the bracket looks as though it has been bent/deformed and the two sides are no longer parallel to each other (though that could be an illusion because of the photo angle). This could have been done when the bolt was torqued with too short of a spacer.
 
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I feel that you should hire a respected multiple builder or a mechanic who is familiar with RVs and with that person inspect your entire control system. It will be the best money you spend on your airplane. After seeing these pics I have no faith in other fasteners. Please get some help.
 
Tom, the airplane was pre-buy inspected by a respected RV-10 multiple builder/mechanic. This might have happened/worsened during 45 hours I flew the plane after the inspection (maybe?) or it might have been missed then.

Anyway, this issue is now fixed. Here is the aileron hanging on its new bracket:
http://goo.gl/J8x89d

And here is a comparison of old vs. new:
http://goo.gl/aoyGkV

Thanks everyone for your help. This community is awesome.
 
That is one of those areas I check every preflight. I check all the aileron, flap, rudder and HS attach points for any slop as well as that the nuts are still on all the bolts. For me this is one part of the plane that has to be right for safe flight.
 
Miro,

In looking at the second photo showing the comparison between the two brackets, it appears that the bolt holding the bracket in place is too short. I can't see at least two threads sticking out beyond the nut.

It could just be the angle that the photo was taken, but I wanted to call it to your attention. Better safe than sorry.

bob
 
rleffler said:
Miro,

In looking at the second photo showing the comparison between the two brackets, it appears that the bolt holding the bracket in place is too short. I can't see at least two threads sticking out beyond the nut.

It could just be the angle that the photo was taken, but I wanted to call it to your attention. Better safe than sorry.

bob
Click to expand...

I agree (though the standard minimum is one full thread).
 
I triple checked today, both screws have exactly two threads sticking out, counted with my nail.

I flew the airplane today (beautiful day here in California -- which is sad because we need more rain and snow, sigh) for 2.9 hours. It flew fine, I didn't notice any improvements in roll handling etc.

Here is a picture I took over Pacheco Pass:
DSC01423%5B1%5D.JPG
 
rotoiti said:
I flew the airplane today (beautiful day here in California -- which is sad because we need more rain and snow, sigh) for 2.9 hours. It flew fine, I didn't notice any improvements in roll handling etc.
Click to expand...
One wouldn't necessarily expect such a situation to degrade or improve roll control.

The problem that could occur is flutter. A situation where the control surface would begin to oscillate. This might happen in a diving descent, within the normal flight envelope. You would probably detect it as a buzzing. If lucky, it would stop. If unlucky the control surface would rip itself off the wing. At best you would then notice some degradation in roll control.

Excessive play in a control system can result in flutter which can quickly destroy parts of your plane - in seconds - without giving you any option to recover.

The damage makes one wonder what caused it. I'm thinking it was tied down in high winds with out a control lock and the aileron just banged around for hours on end. However I'd be surprised at that since on my plane's aileron movement is so well damped out by the trim system and AP connections.

Do you have the aileron trim system installed? An AP? Just curious....
 
The original owner/builder had a hangar thus he didn't have any gust locks. I don't, I park outside so I purchased Gust Buster and put it on after every flight. Before it arrived, I used the seat belt to lock the stick down.

That makes me think that maybe it got initially damaged in high winds when the original owner was out and about (since he didn't have any gust control devices) and then the damage just progressed. I checked the other aileron, elevator and rudder and those controls are nice and tight in every connection spot. Flaps too.

Yes, the plane has aileron trim and an AP but the servos don't dampen the movement much.
 
rotoiti said:
I triple checked today, both screws have exactly two threads sticking out, counted with my nail.
Click to expand...

I hope you are looking the same bolts (not screws) that Bob was mentioning The ones giving concern are the ones that attach the bracket to the aileron (the ones visible in THIS photo).
It sure doesn't look like there are any threads protruding beyond the nut.
 
Yes, it's a bolt. Sorry for a mental shortcut. I'll see if I can sneak a photo from the other side showing the threads. Unfortunately, I don't have a borescope (or dental) camera which would make this task easy.
 
Is if possible that the pic was taken before the nuts were tightened down? It looks like a gap between the parts.
Also, in the other pic there may be too many threads showing. Just make sure of this otherwise the bolt could actually be loose in the fitting and your problem could come back.
 
Ah, of course, "old vs. new" was taken before tightening. There is no torque seal on it. Sorry, I am being paranoid about this. Triple and quadruple checking is way better than the alternative. Thank you so much for the pointers.

Here is the pic of a bolt after tightening:
bracket_bolt.jpg
 
Just a general comment.....

Be careful about re-using the nylok nuts. I generally don't re-use them after about 2 removals.
The one in your picture looks a little beat up. Could be just the paint chips.

May just need to keep an eye on it during your preflight walk around in case it loosens up. The torque seal is a good idea.
 
The standard rule on nyloks is, if you cannot screw them on with your hand, they are good to use.
 
Or for about 8 cents, you could just replace it...

I have seen, firsthand, what happens when a control surface comes loose in flight. It wasn't pretty, and I would prefer not to have it happen again.

ALL of the control surface attachments on my -10 will be castle nuts and cotter pins...
 
castellated nylocks

Any bolt that has anything to do with control surface movement gets the belt and suspender treatment on my plane, castellated nylocks with cotterpins, a la helicopters.
MS17825-3 and MS17825-4. Got them from Aviall. Probably not needed but those extra 20 bucks are well worth it for me.

Anyway, there's no reason not to replace that painted banged up nut... :) Get a bag of those nuts, and throw them straight in the trash when you take them off. Especially when they are installed on parts that move a lot. This way you won't need to be paranoid about any of them coming off.

lenny
 
I also keep a good supply of new Nylok's and throw out the used ones whenever they come off. Probably not required as Mel states but it gives me piece of mind.
 
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