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Show me your Firewall mounted oil cooler (RV-7)

Captain_John

Well Known Member
Hey all,

I am installing piston skirt squirts in my Parallel Valve, IO-360 engine and from what I hear, I need to change my oil cooler from the baffle mounted style to another type.

I am aware of the Showplanes style, but am leaning towards the firewall mounted RV-10 (VA-186) setup.

Questions:

1) does the VA-186 fit on the RV-7 firewall adequately?
1b) if so, pictures would help in positioning it correctly. Please provide...

2) In keeping with this RV-10 mount, I plan on using the EA OIL COOLER 20006A with it, as provided from Vans and would like to know if anyone with this setup is willing to share empirical data with regard to oil cooling performance.

Thank you in advance.

:) John
 
Well, ain't no -7 (almost), nor a VA-186, but a Positech P20002C, might give you some idea. The cooling was too effective, and I've since installed a shutter which works pretty good.
Finding real estate on a firewall is usually the bigger challenge, but I would never install an oil cooler on the engine baffles.
 

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Oil cooler

That's how mine is set up. RV10 mount, ccooler and a 4" butterfly valve. I installed nutplates for the mount in case I needed to work in the space. The cooler can be unbolted and the mount removed.
Still working FWF but here's a couple photos.
Sorry, never have figured out how to get a vertical photo to post correctly.
20210220_153525.jpg
20210309_120117.jpg
 
Hey all,

I am installing piston skirt squirts in my Parallel Valve, IO-360 engine and from what I hear, I need to change my oil cooler from the baffle mounted style to another type.

I am aware of the Showplanes style, but am leaning towards the firewall mounted RV-10 (VA-186) setup.

Questions:

1) does the VA-186 fit on the RV-7 firewall adequately?
1b) if so, pictures would help in positioning it correctly. Please provide...

2) In keeping with this RV-10 mount, I plan on using the EA OIL COOLER 20006A with it, as provided from Vans and would like to know if anyone with this setup is willing to share empirical data with regard to oil cooling performance.

Thank you in advance.

:) John

My 2 cents...I tried to do this but I could not get the SW8432R to fit on the FW with the mount. There isn't enough room to fit everything without serious fw point relocations. Many may say "sure it does" BUT those are mostly -A models. The -A model engine mounts are trussed differently than the TD's, changing the option of a FW mounted OC tough to accomplish. I finally mounted mine in the stock location off #4's rear baffle. Yes the corner has been reinforced to aid in crack prevention.
 
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It’s a tight fit but worked on a angle for me.

Here’s how I did mine. I can control the temperature in the winter to run at 180F and in the summer never see more than about 190F
(Parallel valve IO-360)

Regards

Peter
 

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Here's mine

For my 200HP, IO-360-A1B6 (Angle Valve - Piston squirter equipped) I mounted a SW 8406R on the firewall. After a couple of flights, I wanted a bit more cooling margin so I upgraded to a SW 10599R -- I just had to remake the diffuser.

...Pics...
 

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This is what I did for my RV6 I’m building. O-360-A1A. It worked well on my first RV6, so here I go again. Easy to install and plenty of room.
 

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Firewall Oil Cooler

This is on my 8 . 13 Row Oil Cooler on its own mount .
 

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As the -8’s firewall is smaller than the -7’s, the “real estate” was an issue and i ended up putting a 20006’er on the engine mount.

IO-360 with squirters. Had too high oil temps, now it is more than adequate. I installed a shutter, works perfect.
 

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Oil Cooler

Here is my firewall cooler on my 6A.
 

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That's how mine is set up. RV10 mount, ccooler and a 4" butterfly valve. I installed nutplates for the mount in case I needed to work in the space. The cooler can be unbolted and the mount removed.
Still working FWF but here's a couple photos.
Sorry, never have figured out how to get a vertical photo to post correctly.
View attachment 21094
View attachment 21096

Hi Larry

I like your mount. Was it bought in or did you fabricate pls ?

I held off putting the cooler on the baffles due to the cracking issues others mentioned.

Thanks
Ian
 
Oil Cooler Parts

Hi Larry

I like your mount. Was it bought in or did you fabricate pls ?

I held off putting the cooler on the baffles due to the cracking issues others mentioned.

Thanks
Ian

Here's the list
Vans
EA OIL COOLER 20006A OIL COOLER I(O)-540
VA-186 OIL COOLER MNT RV-10
VA-187 4" FLANGED DUCT
VENT SCAT 4"-4" Vent Scat Hose By The Foot

Aircraft Spruce
TCW Butterfly Valve 4" Duct
05-16245 CABLE "B" NUT CARB HEAT 222-4
05-14072 A-740 CONTROL 72" BLACK KNOB
 
Thank you, All!

I am moving forward with the RV-10 Firewall mount and cooler like Larry and Dusty have done. I know that things will be tight, as others have mentioned and I totally agree with!

I will let you know how I make out.

Thanks for all your input!

:) John
 
Larry,

You could alternatively make your own from AT6-058 aluminum tubing that came with your kit.

That is what I did before and plan on doing again this time around.

:) John
 
Sealing sides of cooler

I've been following this thread with great interest and have adopted the RV10 cooler and mount with butterfly valve/Bowden cable - thank you wirejock and others.

I want to share one possible way of sealing the sides of the cooler...

Any opinions on whether or not they will stay in place?

This is my first post. Thank you all who have helped me with my RV7 build - there are a lot of you.

Nick
RV7 QB slider N16KY
Titan IO370 9.6:1
 

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So I have been doing some imagineering on this oil cooler set up and one common practice is to throttle back the flow of fresh air to the cooler by some type of butterfly valve. Undoubtedly we can all agree that the larger coolers (regardless of manufacturer or model) have the ability to over cool the oil.

That being said, a 4" hole in the baffle would also be counter-productive to cylinder head cooling.

This would exacerbate by goal of increasing cooling to my cylinder heads.

What I am considering is decreasing the size of the SCAT tubing which feeds the oil cooler down to the 2" size, as the flange is commonly available from Van (and others) and the parts would be common to the ones we already have which feeds the heater box.

Additionally it would be easier to thread the smaller tube around the engine compartment, thusly making a cleaner installation.

Alternatively... and these are the questions for the group.
Is a SCAT tube and forced ventilation even required?
Would ambient cooling be sufficient?
Is it worth testing?
Has someone already tried this?

What are your thoughts?

:confused: John
 
John,
I have a IO-320 and a firewall mounted oil cooler. I used 3" sct due to the clearance through my engine mount. I had problems cooling from day 1. I re-engineered the scat tube take off and oil cooler connection twice to get enough flow through the small tubing.
I my opinion, you would not get very far with ambient airflow and not much better with 2" scat.
 
Firewall mount

Fabricated my own aluminum, and molded a custom fiberglass adapter. Controlled with butterfly valve. Pretty sure you want 4" scat. It's a tight fit, but has worked well.
 

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Fabricated my own aluminum, and molded a custom fiberglass adapter. Controlled with butterfly valve. Pretty sure you want 4" scat. It's a tight fit, but has worked well.

Correct. You will want a 4" SCAT for the 13 row cooler. I initially had 3" on mine and it was not keeping up.

I also FW mounted mine as well. Still looking for some good pics.
 
So I bought this pre-fabbed shroud for my 13 row (https://airflow-systems.myshopify.c...ft-parts/products/asocd-45-13-oil-cooler-duct).

My oil cooler is mounted on the firewall with the two ports facing inboard. On the firewall side, a simple aluminum angle mounted to the firewall will provide a nice shelf to mount one side of the oil cooler. The engine mount with an Adel Clamp provides the other side with stability with a couple of fabbed aluminum angle pieces.
 
FW mounted oil cooler

RV9 with the small cooler, but there appears to be room for the bigger one. Cooler mounts on 3/4” angles riveted to the firewall and the structural angles on the aft side. Cooler is angled so exit air flows toward toward the cowl exit. Home rolled glass adapters and super flexible hose.

Don Broussard
RV9 Rebuild in Progress
57 Pacer
 

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RV9 with the small cooler, but there appears to be room for the bigger one. Cooler mounts on 3/4” angles riveted to the firewall and the structural angles on the aft side. Cooler is angled so exit air flows toward toward the cowl exit. Home rolled glass adapters and super flexible hose.

Don Broussard
RV9 Rebuild in Progress
57 Pacer


Broussard for the WIN on the U-Joint rotisserie bolted to the engine mount!
 
Oil cooler

Red RTV seals the inlet duct to the cooler. Saran Wrap is a must. After it cured I trimmed off the excess with a razor knife. Another consideration was the hot air coming from the heater valve when the heat is off. To prevent flooding the area where the cooler is now located with hot air I bent up a little box out of thin stainless to deflect it down towards the exit.

Don Broussard
RV9 Rebuild in Progress
57 Pacer
 

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So I have been doing some imagineering on this oil cooler set up and one common practice is to throttle back the flow of fresh air to the cooler by some type of butterfly valve. Undoubtedly we can all agree that the larger coolers (regardless of manufacturer or model) have the ability to over cool the oil.

That being said, a 4" hole in the baffle would also be counter-productive to cylinder head cooling.

This would exacerbate by goal of increasing cooling to my cylinder heads.

What I am considering is decreasing the size of the SCAT tubing which feeds the oil cooler down to the 2" size, as the flange is commonly available from Van (and others) and the parts would be common to the ones we already have which feeds the heater box.

Additionally it would be easier to thread the smaller tube around the engine compartment, thusly making a cleaner installation.

Alternatively... and these are the questions for the group.
Is a SCAT tube and forced ventilation even required?
Would ambient cooling be sufficient?
Is it worth testing?
Has someone already tried this?

What are your thoughts?

:confused: John

John,

I would recommend against this. I started out with 3.5" scat, and recently changed to 4" scat with a good diffuser. If you use a small air supply, you won't have the ability to cool adequately when/if you need it. It is better to have excess cooling capacity with a shutter or throttle.
 
Standard 3” scat from ACS

Here’s my setup with the Vans 7 row cooler and butterfly valve
B97C2878-FE1D-4F0C-97D8-C018F45EA243.jpg
Sorry about orientation. Not sure how to fix
 
Here’s my setup with the Vans 7 row cooler and butterfly valve

Dave, at a minimum you'll need rub protection on the motor mount tubes. A little oil, a little grit, and the wires in SCAT will do very bad things. Looks like there's a control cable against the SCAT also.

Your install and Don's provide an interesting comparison in the same application. Please, take this the right way, but Don's is very good, and, well...

It's about the details.

A long length of SCAT with bends won't flow as much air as its diameter suggests; the effective diameter is much less. SCEET should be little better because of the liner, but not a lot.

The entry from the plenum should have a radius, a bellmouth if you will. Again, a 90 degree edge reduces effective diameter.

The same is true at the approach to the cooler face. A diffuser like Don's won't suffer flow and pressure loss, as the flow should remain attached to the walls, expanding and slowing with increasing face pressure.

Put it together. Don's fixed diffuser on the oil cooler means the hose section between the motor mounts tubes doesn't move. The smooth inner surface of the entire assembly means minor flow flow losses only. A short length of SCEET would also be fine from the standpoint of flow, but the wires might be an issue.

I'm not saying the droopy SCAT and 90 degree tin won't work. The cooling requirement varies with engine choice and climate, so it may be fine with little more than a length of split rubber hose zip tied around the motor mount tubes, or maybe hanging it on a large Adel. That said, a quick scan of your build log says you can do glass work, and it's a lot easier to build it now than fix it later.
-
 

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Ashley,

Looking at your pictures a bit closer now, I seem to notice a vane inside the VA-186 mount. Is this a Vans part? I don't see one on the plans.

I am guessing that you fabbed it up on your own. Am I correct? It seems like a great idea.

Please confirm...

:confused: John
 
Dave, at a minimum you'll need rub protection on the motor mount tubes. A little oil, a little grit, and the wires in SCAT will do very bad things. Looks like there's a control cable against the SCAT also.

Your install and Don's provide an interesting comparison in the same application. Please, take this the right way, but Don's is very good, and, well...

It's about the details.

A long length of SCAT with bends won't flow as much air as its diameter suggests; the effective diameter is much less. SCEET should be little better because of the liner, but not a lot.

The entry from the plenum should have a radius, a bellmouth if you will. Again, a 90 degree edge reduces effective diameter.

The same is true at the approach to the cooler face. A diffuser like Don's won't suffer flow and pressure loss, as the flow should remain attached to the walls, expanding and slowing with increasing face pressure.

Put it together. Don's fixed diffuser on the oil cooler means the hose section between the motor mounts tubes doesn't move. The smooth inner surface of the entire assembly means minor flow flow losses only. A short length of SCEET would also be fine from the standpoint of flow, but the wires might be an issue.

I'm not saying the droopy SCAT and 90 degree tin won't work. The cooling requirement varies with engine choice and climate, so it may be fine with little more than a length of split rubber hose zip tied around the motor mount tubes, or maybe hanging it on a large Adel. That said, a quick scan of your build log says you can do glass work, and it's a lot easier to build it now than fix it later.
-
Dan,

Thanks for the tips. Wasn’t sure how I was gonna prevent the scat from rubbing on the motor mount, so may try the rubber hose idea.
As far as cooling, I am picking up what you’re putting down on the smooth sides vs the 90 degree tin inlet duct, but a friend of mine has this setup on his -7 and has to close the butterfly valve slightly to keep the oil warm enough up here in the great white north. So I’m gonna see how it works for now, keeping in mind your suggestions. Anyway, thanks for the input.

Dave
 
Wasn’t sure how I was gonna prevent the scat from rubbing on the motor mount, so may try the rubber hose idea.

You can't prevent it -- So I embraced it :)

I wrapped a piece of thick UHMW tape to the motor mount, and the SCEET rests on it. No fuss, No muss, No chafing on either piece (motor mount or SCEET) after 100's of hours.
 
Oil Cooler Tuning Vane

Hi John,

Yes there is a tuning Vane in the RV-10 Oil Cooler. The part was originally from Airflow Systems as part of there RV-10 2007X Install pack.

You can easily make your own with some scrap .032. The goal is to split the airflow in half from the intake to the oil cooler face. Bill found during testing there was stagnant air flow at the top of the RV-10 oil cooler mount and the splitter went a long way of correcting the problem.

In the photo below, follow the vertical rivet line and you can see how the splitter goes from the round intake all the way to the oil cooler face.

AM-JKLWYg3Ak_7SSyUw5aIcmbdbGYOsa7mAthHISNogaiLhkzdVLyAxRDTD67J6fsOtv_LgstjTed0bm3C6tshAv3fck-ixZMxMMOtlHJDaA8-qv_od1SD8MtoGr738iXBFG6yeOM_jLAqAO483iHVJwC1_o-w=w678-h903
 
Velocity Stack...

Along the lines of what DanH suggested - I wasn't happy with the sharp/tight transition from the back baffle wall into the oil cooler duct inlet. I think I measured a radius of < 1/16" with the generic aluminum flange so there is some airflow separation at the transition, effectively reducing the inlet diameter.

I attempted to make a fiberglass "velocity stack" to make a better transition...results in attached pictures.

Unfortunately, the temps at this location are really close to the materials Tg° so it gets soft. I think the next step is to machine my own velocity stack, or buy something from one of the speed shops and adapt.

Cheers!

B
 

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Hi John,

Yes there is a tuning Vane in the RV-10 Oil Cooler. The part was originally from Airflow Systems as part of there RV-10 2007X Install pack.

You can easily make your own with some scrap .032. The goal is to split the airflow in half from the intake to the oil cooler face. Bill found during testing there was stagnant air flow at the top of the RV-10 oil cooler mount and the splitter went a long way of correcting the problem.

In the photo below, follow the vertical rivet line and you can see how the splitter goes from the round intake all the way to the oil cooler face.

AM-JKLWYg3Ak_7SSyUw5aIcmbdbGYOsa7mAthHISNogaiLhkzdVLyAxRDTD67J6fsOtv_LgstjTed0bm3C6tshAv3fck-ixZMxMMOtlHJDaA8-qv_od1SD8MtoGr738iXBFG6yeOM_jLAqAO483iHVJwC1_o-w=w678-h903

What kind of red sealant is in the picture?
 
Along the lines of what DanH suggested - I wasn't happy with the sharp/tight transition from the back baffle wall into the oil cooler duct inlet. I think I measured a radius of < 1/16" with the generic aluminum flange so there is some airflow separation at the transition, effectively reducing the inlet diameter.

I attempted to make a fiberglass "velocity stack" to make a better transition...results in attached pictures.

Unfortunately, the temps at this location are really close to the materials Tg° so it gets soft. I think the next step is to machine my own velocity stack, or buy something from one of the speed shops and adapt.

Cheers!

B

So much easier to have a bellmouth grown from HP-MJF using nylon-12. Send me your email via PM and I'll send you STL's for these parts. I've had this setup installed in my -6 for 1.5 years or so and no issues with heat.

OC duct 2.jpg OC duct 1.JPG
 
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Fascinating individual solutions. Details are important. This is a pet subject of mine. The AVERAGE (1st attempt) installation for cooler air in/out 15 yrs ago not as good (on average). Installations on new builds are improved. Group knowledge is being gained and incorporated. As well as different innovative variations and solutions are being made.

1) Directly hanging cooler off engine baffle unless extensively braced is a recipe for cracked baffles or cooler flange. Not saying it can't be done, but I've been there done that. Not a fan. Remote oil cooler mounting (not vibrating) is my preference.

2) People used small Dia. SCAT in the past (3" for example). I was ranting 15 yrs ago you should use Approx. 4", typically. Dan's comment about smooth flow is correct, but may not make much difference, but does not hurt. VENA HTD (SCEET Equiv) or VENA MT (CAT Equiv) have smooth inner liners. The MT (black) is half the price of SCEET (red). The inner liner not as much for flow but to keep wire from being ingested (if it broke off).

3) The duct (hose) to cooler transition plenum (like Van's metal box design) were not great, and right angles not great either. Can it work? Yes for some installations. Now builders are making beautiful smooth plenum transitions, far better. Again 15 yrs ago I was ranting about this.

4) Cooler exit air. Having the cooler exit in a lower pressure area is golden, like lower cowl near cowl exit.

Now with fire breathing IO390's oil cooling is even more critical. Well done Gents.
 
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Fire Barrier 2000

Hi Fabio,

Yes, Fire Barrier 2000 can be used to seal the gaps.
(Usually used around any firewall penetrations)

Any high temp sealant can be used.
The goal is the same as with the baffle seal to to ensure that ever available air molecule carries some heat away and does not escape with out going through the oil cooler :)
 
Ashley and All,

Tell me, are you concerned with the dirty oil remaining in the cooler and the lines after an oil change? Seems that there will be a fair amount of old, dirty oil remaining in the system.

My thought is inverting the cooler and instead of installing a 90 degree fitting on both sides, substituting an AN825 tee in place of one of them and using a cap on the other side of the tee. During a change you would then be able to drain the cooler as well.

Thoughts???

:rolleyes: John
 
Old is New

Ashley and All,

Tell me, are you concerned with the dirty oil remaining in the cooler and the lines after an oil change? Seems that there will be a fair amount of old, dirty oil remaining in the system.

My thought is inverting the cooler and instead of installing a 90 degree fitting on both sides, substituting an AN825 tee in place of one of them and using a cap on the other side of the tee. During a change you would then be able to drain the cooler as well.

Thoughts???

:rolleyes: John


Even with the cooler mounted on the engine baffle, I doubt it is drained during an oil change; the oil is just too "sticky" to drain out of the oil cooler's passages.
If you were to install a drain, I am still not sure how much would actually drain out since the hoses probably wont empty either.

Lastly, after draining the oil cooler, and then re filling the engine, now the oil cooler needs to be refilled. Would one crank the engine with ignition off, or just run the engine without oil until the cooler fills up? In my mind, better to have a quart of dirty oil, then to start with no oil flow. JMHO.
 
Fair point about the empty cooler upon startup. What you don't know is that I am installing a pre-oiler system on this retrofit so... moot point for me at least.

True, not many will have a pre-oiler in their plane.

I know that in a baffle mounted setup the cooler isn't drained. That is what I ran for the last engine setup (1,400 hours) and I am very familiar with it. Then again it is a bit smaller than this one and less of a concern. Seems to me though I recall seeing a cooler drain on some certified planes. Correct me if I am wrong???

Tell me why you don't think the lines would drain down though. It would take some time, but it will drain. Many times I let the oil drain for DAYS when I change my engine oil. In that amount of time it should be pretty empty. This gives me time to look things over, make changes and fiddle around. Maybe others are in rush, but I am not.

:cool: John
 
This site shows an example

Capt John,

Jason Beaver's site has an example of how he did it with FW mounted oil cooler. His whole site is really well documented.
http://jasonbeaver.com/rv7/category/firewall-forward/


Fair point about the empty cooler upon startup. What you don't know is that I am installing a pre-oiler system on this retrofit so... moot point for me at least.

True, not many will have a pre-oiler in their plane.

I know that in a baffle mounted setup the cooler isn't drained. That is what I ran for the last engine setup (1,400 hours) and I am very familiar with it. Then again it is a bit smaller than this one and less of a concern. Seems to me though I recall seeing a cooler drain on some certified planes. Correct me if I am wrong???

Tell me why you don't think the lines would drain down though. It would take some time, but it will drain. Many times I let the oil drain for DAYS when I change my engine oil. In that amount of time it should be pretty empty. This gives me time to look things over, make changes and fiddle around. Maybe others are in rush, but I am not.

:cool: John
 
Showplanes Oil Cooler Mount?

I'm not there yet, but I'm listening. The Showplanes oil cooler mount seems to be a good compromise between Baffle (bad) and Firewall (congested.)
The weight of the cooler is born by the engine mount, so no baffle cracking, and yet the firewall isn't occupied either. The exiting warm air can even be routed straight down to the cowl exit.
Thoughts? Anyone using one of them?
 
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