Milwaukee to San Diego X-Country Flight Plan Help?

Hey all,

My wife and I are headed to KSAN to attend my son's Marine Boot Camp graduation. He and I will be flying back to MKE and my wife with take SWA.

Right now our plan is to leave 9/27 and head for Pueblo where we will spend the night, then in the AM cross the mountains toward Moab, UT where we plan to rent a car and see some sights (Arches, Natural Bridges, Monument Valley, etc) then from there do the zig-zag across the Grand Canyon over toward death valley and down to Joshua Tree.

I really have no idea where the best places to go, see and stay are. Any suggestions?

Also, getting from the flat lands in the east over the Rockies, I was thinking through Pueblo or up by Rawlings, WY? I don't have O2, so I need some <13k crossing altitudes? (Keep in mind, I do have some mountain flying training and experience also ATP, CFI etc, etc.)

Oh my. You are in for such a treat. There is so much to see that you won't have time for all the suggestions. I am heading out for a bit but will add my ideas later.

La Junta (KLHX), CO is another option for an overnight. You should be able to use a courtesy car to get to town.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KLHX

Do look up lodging at Monument Valley. That could be a good stop and way to see that area. Here is the airport:

http://www.airnav.com/airport/UT25

Another option is a quick stop at Leadville:

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KLXV

Another place to visit is Dead Horse State Park in the Moab area.

In Page AZ is a great slot canyon:

http://www.antelopecanyon.com/extended_tour.html

My guess

My guess when you mention Rawlings, WY and Pueblo, CO in the same plan for a trip from Wisconsin to San Diego is that you are "either or" planning for weather options. The primary plan seems to be the most direct route which would not even consider Rawlings all though that is a viable route given your constraints. You obviously want to see the sights along the way. First of all I would stop in Colorado Springs instead of Pueblo and see three things "Garden of the Gods park, Pikes Peak and the Air Force Academy. Then I would go south before crossing the mountains There are 5 National Parks in the south end of Utah (Zion, Bryce, Capital Reef, Canyon lands and Arches) and there are many scenic and historical attractions in southern Colorado around Durango, Northern New Mexico (Santa fe and Los Alamos) and northern Arizona (Canyon De Chelly, Chaco Canyon, Monument Valley, Lake Powell - the day boat tour is special and of course Grand Canyon). I don't know if the Furnace Creek Inn is open until late October but I believe the Furnace Creek Ranch is for a Death Valley stay over in California.

As far as crossings below 13,000 ft are concerned my routes have been El Paso, TX; Albuquerque, NM; Las Vegas, NM; Rawlings, WY, Boise, ID; Missoula, MT (the last three are a little zigzagy involving other cities but they all have attractions though not as famous as the southern route and they have a way to get through without requiring supplemental oxygen.

I lived in San Diego several times starting in WWII in my youth. I always looked upon the Marine Recruit Depot and the Naval Training Center as places of Honor. Good luck to you and your son.

Bob Axsom

apkp777 said:

Hey all,

My wife and I are headed to KSAN to attend my son's Marine Boot Camp graduation. He and I will be flying back to MKE .......

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First, congrats to you and him from a former marine. Thank him for his service, my family to your family. My nephew graduated MCRD Parris Island last week. My wife and I flew from Cleveland, OH to Beaufort, SC for the graduation.

Travel safe Tony and enjoy the ceremony.

Bob..Yes, looking at Rawlings, WY I am thinking I could cross comfortably at 12.5k, Pueblo might still be possible at 12.5, just not as much margin. Using Google Earth, both routes look okay. Weather may come down as the deciding factor. Once across the high mountains, we plan on flying over/though as many of the sites as we can. Our thought, was to then rent a car in Moab and drive to see them from the ground. We'll have about 5 days to make the trip to KSAN so we should have a chance a few select spots. We were thinking of stopping in Page, AZ as Ron Lee suggested. I will look at the Furnace Creek Inn for our Death Valley stop.

GLPalinkas said:

First, congrats to you and him from a former marine. Thank him for his service, my family to your family. My nephew graduated MCRD Parris Island last week. My wife and I flew from Cleveland, OH to Beaufort, SC for the graduation.

Travel safe Tony and enjoy the ceremony.

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Thanks Gary! We are very proud of Aaron.

From either Colorado Springs (KCOS) or Pueblo (KPUB) heads towards Fremont Co (1V6). Avoid R2601 A/B

Continue west towards Salida (KANK) at 7523 feet.

Turn north if you want to land at Leadville or continue west to southwest to cross that short (east west) mountains with passes around 10,800' to 11,300' plus/minus so 12500' is good or just pop up a but more for a few minutes. That little bit was the hardest part and that was not even hard.

The terrain drops back down to 8000' or so as you pass Gunnison (KGUC). West of Gunnison is a lake. Follow the river (better yet create a GPS waypoint) for the Black Canyon of the Gunnison Park. Fly over it on your way to Canyonlands airport.

A short distance from Canyonlands is the Mineral Canyon strip/Green river. It is an incredible flight. One example is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ok4z8WVPiE

The rest is simple. Getting the Grand Canyon chart for corridors and frequencies is highly recommended...or find that info online.

The other two issues are know how to lean your engine at altitude and even for starting plus understand that you will fly your normal INDICATED airspeedsfor approach/landing but your groundspeed will be higher. Do not be fooled into flaring high!

Always have a charged camera battery and plenty of data storage.

If you are landing at Death Valley then a stop at the highest paved strip in the lower 48 just seems the thing to do on this trip.

Our first overnight out of Mojave for OSH 11 was in Colorado Springs via Page. IIRC, the highest we had to go was 12.5 for a 30 minute portion of the trip just prior to Colorado Springs. And speaking of Page, you might take a look at my trip report for Cliff Dwellers Lodge and consider it as your overnight. As long as the strip dries out, a RV-9 will handle it easily.

Colorado passes

Howdy, and welcome to the west!

The Colorado Pilots Association has a nice page about passes in Colorado. See: http://coloradopilots.org/mtnfly_passes.asp?menuID=91~91 I am pretty sure it has a link somewhere to the mountain pass AWOS's that the state keeps. Very useful to check for winds just before you head in.

You can take La Veta pass west out of Walsenburg. It is low, and very wide. It is very easy to get over, and very scenic. To get further west, you can either dip down into New Mexico and across, or go on across the divide. I think most of the passes in Colorado over the divide are high.

If you do dip into New Mexico, stop in Taos. Unfortunately the airport there has no courtesy car, but they do rent. The town is quite old, and has a lot of "artsy" shops to look into if you like that.

If in Colorado Springs, Garden of the Gods, Pikes Peak, and the Academy are all local attractions. If you have a day, hop over the mountains and fly into Buena Vista. They do have a courtesy car, and several good places in town to eat. It is a really pretty little town. You can make a circuit and go down to Salida from Buena Vista, and back to COS flying over the Royal Gorge You could also head over Monarch pass, but it is at least 11,000 ft at the top of the pass.

Hope you guys have a great time. Thanks to you and the family for your son's service.

Geoff
2013 dues paid

Monarch and Marshall passes are the ones I described (but did not name) in my previous post.

In an RV, those are not problematic passes. If you want more than a thousand feet clearance, pop up another 500-1000' a few minutes before crossing then descend to a more comfortable (more oxygen) altitude.

I do have the benefit of living at 6800' and having O2 onboard.

Ron Lee said:

Monarch and Marshall passes are the ones I described (but did not name) in my previous post.

In an RV, those are not problematic passes. If you want more than a thousand feet clearance, pop up another 500-1000' a few minutes before crossing then descend to a more comfortable (more oxygen) altitude.

I do have the benefit of living at 6800' and having O2 onboard.

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Thanks Ron, I am thinking Monarch Pass is a good choice. Looks like I can go across at 12.5 and survive the 30 minute crossing. Living at 910 MSL doesn't do much for altitude acclimation.

Tony, it may only be 15 minutes max. You will see the pass area well ahead and can do your best to judge when to climb so you are getting max altitude just before the pass. Cross until you are comfortably past the ridge then a descent as you judge safe.

KSAN?

Tony:

First off, congrats to you and your son. If he hasn't heard it yet, ask him about his 12th General Order (Hint: it starts off: "To walk my post from flank to flank...")

Dumb question - do you actually intend to land/park at San Diego Lindbergh Int'l - KSAN? There are a number of other airports - KSEE, KMYF, KCRQ, KSDM - that are easier to get in and out of for an RV. That said, KSAN literally shares a fence with the Recruit Depot, so it is the closest.

If you have an extra hour or two, and the weather cooperates, suggest flying to Avalon (KAVX.) Even if you just orbit the island, it's a great flight from the San Diego area. If you do wish to land, the website has good gouge.

If you have some time on the ground, suggest visiting Liberty Station - the former San Diego Naval Training Center - for great food, beer, and even some history.

If you want more local information, just shoot me a note. Finally, with respect to a route <13k', I returned from KOSH via KSLN KDHT KAEG PXR, then around or through restricted areas that were cold. Not "national monument" scenic, but not very high either.

esco said:

...Dumb question - do you actually intend to land/park at San Diego Lindbergh Int'l - KSAN? ...

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No, I plan to park at KMYF.

If you can hook a ride to town from kcny, you can save the concourse fee for the car. I think it's 35 bucks (which you could split with DR). Get a jeep CJ, then you can run some trails like long canyon or white rim.

apkp777 said:

Living at 910 MSL doesn't do much for altitude acclimation.

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Seeks appropriate competent advice on whether taking an aspirin or equivalent before making that crossing may help prevent a headache.

Also, while some of the terrain west of the Rockies (desert area) may look ok for an off-field landing, much of it is not.

apkp777 said:

No, I plan to park at KMYF.

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Park at main terminal by the fence. 10 bux.

Ron Lee said:

...Also, while some of the terrain west of the Rockies (desert area) may look ok for an off-field landing, much of it is not.

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Depends if your requirement is to be able to reuse the airplane or simply survive... The desert is my back yard and I consider it very survivable (the landing anyway), but the airplane is likely to be damaged or exposure will get you. That said, there are plenty of roads and dry lake beds around.

At the least, bring water and make sure someone knows exactly where you are (flight following, SPOT, etc).

Don't be surprised if flight following coverage is marginal at the altitudes you will be flying in remote areas.

That is one reason why I got a PLB. See my post in the Safety section.

Things to see in San Diego

Tony:

More spots to visit in Southern San Diego:

Fly to Big Bear - interesting approach, great visuals, airport restaurant is ok too.

Fly to Flabob - home of EAA chapter 1, very interesting approach ("fly at the mountain until you think you're too close. continue. turn-base-turn-final-land")

Things to do, places to see in San Diego:
The Gaslamp Quarter - the old downtown, with lots of good eats, good shopping.

Little Italy - just north of downtown SD - great ambiance, restaurants, food, and even better coffees.

Old Town - the historic heart of San Diego, with a different history. If you like Mexican food, try the Old Town Mexican Cafe, and get a hand-made tortilla.

La Jolla Cove - swimming, snorkeling/diving, tide pooling, or shuffleboard. Just up the hill - Prospect Avenue - there are posh bars, shops, restaurants, and people watching. La Valencia and Georges At the Cove are at one end of the $cale, but there are a number of less-expensive options also. The Marine Room has nothing to do with the Corps, and is a bit farther away, but it also has great ocean-side views.

Mission Beach - boardwalk, people watching, even a roller coaster. Sea World is close by.

Coronado - the Hotel Del has great food (a recurring theme with me), interesting history, great views. Your son can empathize with the BUDS candidates on the beach.

Mount Soledad - great view of San Diego, on a clear day (early afternoon the marine layer will have burnt off, if it will that day has great views in every direction, South to Mexico, North to Orange County, East to the desert mountains, and West to the close by Pacific. Also, no need to check in with ATC, and you can linger as long as you want.

Balboa Park, and the Aerospace Museum. Lots of aviation history in San Diego...

VFR over San Diego Harbor - get the San Diego Terminal Area Chart, look closely, and you can discern a VFR corridor in the Bravo, over the harbor, KSAN, and further north. A great vista over San Diego's landmarks, including the Coronado Bridge, downtown, the Midway museum, your son's recent home away from home (MCRD San Diego), Mission Bay, and Mount Soledad. North and Southbound traffic have their own side of the corridor.

That should keep you busy, or give you alternatives in case other plans don't work out.