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Lost Stabilator cable in riveted embenage-how get it back?

D

danielabernath

Well Known Member
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I took out the old trim servo and put in a new one. The brass tab was snapped off as someone pressed down on the trim tab.
Thats all re assembled but now I notice that the stabilator flies around.
(I've looked through the plans and can't find it)
problem: looks like the stabiliator has a governor which is attached to this part on one end and then something that comes through the empannage on the other.
Can you tell me how to fix this as airplane is now always ready to fly again (after many, many months)
****

I have no recollection of disconnecting this and if it connected to something within the empennage then I would have tied a rag or something to it so that it could not escape within.
The stabilator flies all the way up. Notice the tribute I have to Col. Wesley Scheimer on the rudder, the maker of this fine aircraft.
 
Your location lists no state. There are several Portlands. It sounds like you did not personally build this plane, so therefore do not have a the builder's knowledge of the construction. Suggest you make a local connection with other builders, preferably of the RV-12 variety.

If you did not disconnect that cable, who did? Is your airplane secured? This is troubling from several aspects.
 
A fishing pole will be your friend

There is a heavy counter weight on the end of a long tube attached to the stabilator .... it is deflecting up to the stop because the cable is removed from the horn on the stabilator.

To help solve your issue the following may be helpful:

You will need to remove the screws in the baggage bulkhead cover so it can be removed to gain access to the tail cone area. This will likely involve removing the fuel tank unless the RV-12 has the baggage bulkhead modification.

The cable should have fallen straight down, so you can use the fishing pole to snag it as you pull it back by hand...use of the fishing pole will be handy to help lift the end of the cable over the bulkheads because the cable will want to get snagged on them.

Next tie a string onto a large loop of wire and have a helper feed the loop into the hole on the tail cone?s rear bulkhead while you try to snag the loop with the fishing pole. Once you have ?caught? the loop pull it forward bringing the string to you through the tail cone.

Now you will need to loosen or remove the stabiator cable?s barrel adjustment fitting through the access cover on the bottom of the fuselage under the fuel tank. Make sure you use a wire or coat hanger as shown in the plans to prevent the cables from twisting while spinning the barrel connector. You are doing this to gain a little cable slack.

Next attach the end of the cable onto the string you just pulled in and have a helper pull the cable assembly back through the hole in the tail cone. The fishing pole may prove helpful here as well to help keep the fitting on the end of the cable from snagging the bulkheads while pulling the cable back through the tail cone.

Reattach the cable to the horn on the stabilator using the hardware shown in the plans. Now adjust the barrel adjuster following the procedure in the plans to the proper tension per the plans.

Good Luck,
 
I suggest removing the inspection covers on the bottom of the fuselage and then loosening the elevator turnbuckle. You may have to completely open the turnbuckle in order to get enough slack in the cable to reconnect to the elevator control horn. You can use a long stiff wire with a hooked end to fish the cable back out of the rear bulkhead.

From your post it sounds like you may not be very familiar with this aircraft or aircraft maintenance in general. Please be advised that you are working on a very critical part of the aircraft for flight safety. Elevator cable tension is very specific and must be measured with a cable tensiometer (special tool). Turnbuckles require special safety wiring techniques al well.

My advice is to get professional maintenance help to fix this problem.
 
Its a long story and a lawsuit has been filed. Waiting for a covered hangar to open up at KFMY where we are now.
Someone pushed on the NO PUSH trim tab and snapped off the brass screw coming out of the servo.
I took off cowling and replaced it but it was opened up with no cowling for weeks as I took my time.
Do you have any advise on how to get the cable out from inside the empenage?
The long story of this is that Wesley Scheimer built the plane. USAF, and POW for 7 years, then airline pilot for rest of his life built this plane and sold it to me before he died of the Big C.
I put up a small tribute to the maker on the rudder.
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Look at page 32-13 in the plans. All will be very interested what the end of the cable and clevis looks like. Do you have the bolt, nut and cotter pin? Please post more photos after you open things up and can view the cable end. As others have mentioned, find a local RV-12 builder.
 
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Piper J3 said:
.........My advice is to get professional maintenance help to fix this problem.......
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This is the best advice you have gotten. I just ran across your other threads, not in the RV-12 section of the forum. You have had a lot of trouble with this airplane, for whatever reason. Please, for your own safety, don't attempt to fly this airplane again until it has had a thorough inspection by someone knowledgable of the design.
 
When you finally fish out the errant cable (perhaps using a coat hanger or long stick) be VERY CAREFUL that you do not inadvertently route the cable across or otherwise entangle it with the other cable and/or stab balance mechanism. I agree with the others' suggestions that you find an experienced RV-12 builder or mechanic to help you sort out these issues.
 
I know that one RV12 was built here at Page Field, Ft Myers Florida and another RV12 is underway. Do you know any Van Wise Men around here as I am underwhelmed by the "mechanics" I have met in SW Florida so far.
 
danielabernath said:
I know that one RV12 was built here at Page Field, Ft Myers Florida and another RV12 is underway. Do you know any Van Wise Men around here as I am underwhelmed by the "mechanics" I have met in SW Florida so far.
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Open the RV white pages here http://www.vansairforce.net/rvwp.htm by model and on page 21 of 43 there are a (6) RV12 builders listed in Florida. Maybe they are close enough and can help or point you to an EAA Tech councilor in the area familiar with 12's.
 
danielabernath said:
I know that one RV12 was built here at Page Field, Ft Myers Florida and another RV12 is underway. Do you know any Van Wise Men around here as I am underwhelmed by the "mechanics" I have met in SW Florida so far.
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So, you are in Florida----??

When I say your location as "Portland", I thought you were in Oregon. Didnt know Fla had one too.
 
You might consider replacing the formed eyebolt(s) with forged. If ever tied down in gale force winds, the formed ones can become deformed ones, releasing the tie down rope.
 
The bolt and nut might have been put on the end of the cable so that they wouldn't get lost. There might even be a rag tied to the end.
 
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****
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One suggestion was to cut a round hole half way between the oval hole and bottom and then hand up the cable.

Another suggestion was to take off the rivets that hold the plate-get the cable-thread it through and then re rivet or screw back in the plate.
I am calling Flight Ops today and ask who is the man who build an RV12 here at Page Field and I am also going to the EAA "Builders Night" meeting on Thursday for their expertise.
I know I don't have any builder experience but I'll be 67 this year and what the heck--why can't I learn something and work on this magnificent RV 12?
(I was describing her to someone yesterday and said this; "you know how you open up a computer and you can't figure out how anything works-just wires and things? With the Vans, you open her up and it is like looking an an old Underwood typewriter. You hit that key and you see the mechanism working and you see the letter rise up and hit the paper and the inked ribbon there to meet it all. Thats like the RV. Glorious retro."


What do you think?
 
I'll tell you exactly what I think.... You're not listening when everyone is telling you to enlist the help of a professional aircraft mechanic who is familiar with RV-12 construction.
 
danielabernath said:
One suggestion was to cut a round hole half way between the oval hole and bottom and then hand up the cable.


What do you think?
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I dont see enough room in that area to SAFELY put a hole large enough to be any good.

Just my humble opinion, take it for what it is worth.
 
I think that it would be a very bad idea to cut a hole. Drilling rivets out is another very bad idea. Sometimes the easiest way to accomplish a task is to go ahead and do it the hard way to start with. Even if the cable is pulled back out by whatever means, it will not be possible to bolt it into position because the cable will not have enough slack in it. So then a turnbuckle will have to be loosened or taken apart. Then when everything is put back together, the cable tension will have to be set. The best place to do that is inside of the tail cone.
So you are going to have to access the tail cone anyway. So you might as well remove the baggage bulkhead to start with. Get a RV-12 builder to help.
 
What Joe said! I "lost" my cable thru the hole once, and was able to retrieve it thru its hole in the tail with no great problems. Pulling the tank to get to the tailcone can be a real pain if it is not fitted with a two piece baggage bulkhead, but I THINK (I have not done it yet) you can access the turnbuckle thru inspection holes in the belly. If you do have to pull the tank, it would be a fine time to split the bulkhead so future tailcone trips are a walk in the park.
 
danielabernath said:
One suggestion was to cut a round hole half way between the oval hole and bottom and then hand up the cable.

8<...snip...

What do you think?
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I think you should ignore that suggestion with extreme prejudice. Either that person was joking, had not seen the area in question, or really doesn't like you very much.
danielabernath said:
I am also going to the EAA "Builders Night" meeting on Thursday for their expertise.
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Now, that sounds like a very good idea. It's possible that someone will have the tools and experience to fish the cable out through the tail without draining and pulling the tank and removing the baggage bulkhead. It might be possible with a not-too-expensive borescope, some patience and a suitable retrieval tool. You'll still need to have someone on hand who knows what they're doing with the turnbuckles and attachment hardware. As has been observed here already, this is a primary flight control and not to be guessed at or experimented with.

It does seem, however, that there may be a larger problem here given the seemingly inexplicable occurrences that seem to plague this airplane.
 
She is a wonderful airplane and flew me from Arlington Washington to Ft Myers Florida. Thats the longest cross country an RV 12 can do. Great fun. No auto pilot so I spent a lot of time looking at the screw holding the cowling and the reflection of the sun on the hood to keep on course. Just like a sea sailor!
I will have a great sense of accomplishment when she is back in the air and I thank you for your expertise. You are a gentleman and a scholar.
 
FIND A REPUTABLE A&P WITH IA !!!! GET A CONDITION INSPECTION.... Even if it had one a month ago.

I too read over the history you have had with this airplane.

This airplane needs a good once or twice over from experienced eyes. Find an experienced -12 builder to help out. Personally, I would not fly this airplane or put a wrench to it myself until it has been checked over. The stabilator cable could have come off the pulley under the seat..... So all other theories to fix would do you zero good.
 
The problem with just fishing the cable out is the potential of getting it wrapped around a rudder cable. I had the top horn cable slip back in the hole while trying to attach it and ended up pulling the cable back to baggage bulkhead and fishing a pull string to it (I used an 18ft long hinge pin). I do not see any way you can avoid removing the baggage bulkhead access cover to check the cable separation and you have to get in there anyway to verify the cable tension once you tighten the loose the turnbuckles. I agree with removing the seat pan cover to check the cables in the pulleys. You (or whoever is doing the work) also needs to follow the tensioning procedure in chapter 6 of the RV-12 maintenance manual.

If the baggage bulkhead cover is not the two-piece design, I would strongly recommend getting the parts from Van's to install the upgraded two-piece design for the floor cover and bulkhead panel. Same for the fuel tank, if you have to pull it, do the mods for the outlet and vent line if they were not already done. You can do it now or suffer the pain again at the next condition inspection.

John Salak
RV-12 120116
N896HS
 
If you remove the screws along the top and pilot side of the baggage bulkhead cover you will be able to flex it enough to look in the tailcone with a flashlight and direct someone with some type of hook to fish the cable out and check it is not crossing any other cables
 
Why would he want an IA? This is apparently registered as Experimental, apparently as ELSA. In searching the files however, it shows no Airworthiness Certificate has ever been issued. Is this normal to not have it showing? Does it have one?

KALEWIS said:
FIND A REPUTABLE A&P WITH IA !!!! GET A CONDITION INSPECTION.... Even if it had one a month ago.

I too read over the history you have had with this airplane.

This airplane needs a good once or twice over from experienced eyes. Find an experienced -12 builder to help out. Personally, I would not fly this airplane or put a wrench to it myself until it has been checked over. The stabilator cable could have come off the pulley under the seat..... So all other theories to fix would do you zero good.
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DonFromTX said:
Why would he want an IA? This is apparently registered as Experimental, apparently as ELSA. In searching the files however, it shows no Airworthiness Certificate has ever been issued. Is this normal to not have it showing? Does it have one?
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It is not uncommon for FAA registration website to be "out of date".

You are right that IA has nothing to do with experimental aircraft, or even SLSA for that matter.
 
I took the two day light sport engine course at sebring and know them. They suggested that I take off the wings and truck it to them.
I'll see what the boys at EAA have to say Thursday night at builders-night.
Then I'll see if a local A&P has an idea but Sebring might be the only way to proceed.
 
DonFromTX said:
Why would he want an IA? This is apparently registered as Experimental, apparently as ELSA. In searching the files however, it shows no Airworthiness Certificate has ever been issued. Is this normal to not have it showing? Does it have one?
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Well Don .....

I know that in IA is not necessary for E/SLSA .... BUT I find it prudent to have a highly capable and qualified individual to check over an airplane in a questionable situation. To me, an A&P with inspection authority would fit the bill regardless of the fact that an experimental does not require it for inspections . I mean an airplane is an airplane, why not have the most qualified look at it.

The bigger picture here is that this owner has gotten some really really bad advice .... In his own words "from two AP men".
 
I would have to agree with Kyle on this. An A&P / IA would be putting their behind on the line so he/she should be doing a thorough inspection regardless of the type of certificate the plane holds.
 
danielabernath said:
Its a long story and a lawsuit has been filed. Waiting for a covered hangar to open up at KFMY where we are now.
Someone pushed on the NO PUSH trim tab and snapped off the brass screw coming out of the servo.
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That would certainly make me unhappy. Are you suing the FBO, or the airport, or the previous A&P's?
 
I see your logic, but it has been my experience that the IA type who knows absolutely nothing about EAB or the plane in question - can be working backwards. Stuffed with knowledge about certificated planes, he is usually quite unwilling to learn a new worthless in dollars to him skill. I have actually seen this personally several times when an IA gets to an experimental. Usually a really good IA will not even mess with the EAB crowd.
However, the A&P who does condition inspections on experimental aircraft on a regular basis gains valuable experience at his trade and can be a valuable asset when a problem arises, it is just more in his area of expertise than the IA.
That said, we who have the alphabets after our names are usually quite inferior to the BUILDER guy who actually put one of that type together. My recommendation is always to have someone that has built and flown and does condition inspections on THAT MODEL of plane to look it over for the best inspection. Next up the line would be an EAA Tech Counselor, both of these are also not only the best at doing the job, but are totally free, not someone looking for something to "fix" that produces revenue! For instance, look at the tip Larry gave about the tail end tiedown. He has no alphabets after his name, but a builder that can catch those type things.
Often the old saying "you get what you pay for" fails to be true in situations like this.
KALEWIS said:
Well Don .....

I know that in IA is not necessary for E/SLSA .... BUT I find it prudent to have a highly capable and qualified individual to check over an airplane in a questionable situation. To me, an A&P with inspection authority would fit the bill regardless of the fact that an experimental does not require it for inspections . I mean an airplane is an airplane, why not have the most qualified look at it.

The bigger picture here is that this owner has gotten some really really bad advice .... In his own words "from two AP men".
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SUCCESS!

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I followed your advise and tracked down the Prez of the EAA Chapter 66. He's building an RV 10 or something.
I told him the problem and he said, "try this first" and he gave me the strong magnet on a telescoping rod.
By turning the magnet sideways a bit I got it into the oval hole.
I then fished around till I actually felt something. I lifted it up and it kept dropping off the magnet.
So, I used leverage. I extended the pole of the magnet devise to about a foot long and pushed it down and in. It grabbed something. Using the leverage I lifted it up AND SAW THE **** END OF THE CABLE!
I slowly pulled it toward the oval hole.
It was still inside the empennage so grabbed one of the sides with my needle nose pliers and pulled it out!
Then I thought "Now what do I do?"
All my tools etc. were elsewhere as I really didn't think I'd have any success. So I thought about what I could do so as to not have to repeat the whole process and looked down and saw a bit of safety wire.
So I put the safety wire through the end of the cable eye. I got my vice grips and now have fastened that to it too. So, if the SOB is going to try to escape again it will have to drag the vice grips through the oval hole.
Thanks gentlemen for your expertise.
 
You will still need to take a good look into the tailcone and see what else has "gone wrong". The cable could be twisted and/or looped around another cable or any number of things.
PLEASE don't just hook it up and go!
 
Mel said:
You will still need to take a good look into the tailcone and see what else has "gone wrong". The cable could be twisted and/or looped around another cable or any number of things.
PLEASE don't just hook it up and go!
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+1 verify :D
 
What about the cable that attaches to the WD-1207 Stabilator Horn? (See P. 32-13 of the KAI.) Had it fallen into the fuselage as well?
 
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