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RV-8 N800KE - Fatal accident

guidoism

Member
Just got this from my brother at the FAA: N800KE crashed today outside of Langley, WA.
 
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Looks like it was an 8A, serial 82281 from Texas. Not sure who the pilot was or whether he is a member here.
 
Sad

At least we can't sit here saying "why would you fly into weather like that! ?" Very hard to read. Very sad
 
RIP Flying Aardvark

This was one of my buddies that we fly with...we call ourselves the flying aardvarks..as you can tell, we dont take ourselves too seriously. Great guy, excellent pilot. Landing W10 to the south is tricky...but he had done it dozens times prior. Awaiting NTSB..but RIP buddy! Good news, though...his wife is doing much better than expected!
 
This was one of my buddies that we fly with...we call ourselves the flying aardvarks..as you can tell, we dont take ourselves too seriously. Great guy, excellent pilot. Landing W10 to the south is tricky...but he had done it dozens times prior. Awaiting NTSB..but RIP buddy! Good news, though...his wife is doing much better than expected!

Sorry for your loss........I hate losing flying buddies to natural causes but seems like a flying accident would be the worst.
Thanks for kind words about your friend and his wife.
RIP
 
Great guy, excellent pilot. Landing W10 to the south is tricky...but he had done it dozens times prior.

Classic stall/spin turning from base to final.

The NTSB report indicates that the flight was recorded by an onboard camera.
A couple of comments in the report caught my eye:

One was that the pilot turned from downwind to base at 77 kts at 540 ft msl at an airport with an elevation of 271 ft msl. That means he turned base at 269 ft above the ground. That's very very low and was presumably the start of his problem.

According to the report the pilot was 63 years old and "The pilot's most recent FAA airman medical certificate had expired; he had not completed the requirements of BasicMed."

But perhaps the most interesting thing about the report was that it made no mention of whether the aircraft had a stall warning device installed. My guess is that it did not.

Vans Aircraft supply stall warning devices with all of their kits now but for decades they did not. That was a very poor decision on Vans part. And the price over the years has been costly.
 
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That’s a very poor accident report. It totally omits what may have caused the loss of speed and what type of stall warning or AOA the aircraft had onboard. With the FAA putting a increased emphasis on AOA equipment I am surprised it was not discussed.
 
Stall speed

It is probably just a typo in the NTSB report that indicates a Vans stall speed of 58 knots, it is actually 58 mph on the Vans website. It would also be more informative and relevant, for the safety message, to report the stall speed at various angles of bank.

In any case this accident resulted in a sad and apparently avoidable loss, the best we can do now is hopefully learn from it.
 
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...

In any case this accident resulted in a sad and apparently avoidable loss, the best we can do now is hopefully learn from it.
True - I confess I have found myself a bit slow in the pattern from time to time, and I can see how this can happen, particularly when a distraction pops up.

I have not yet gotten so slow that I got the "angle-angle-push" warning or the beeps, but slower than I wanted because I was not paying close enough attention.

This accident is another sad reminder that we need to bring our best selves to every flight.
 
Everybody go to 5500 or so this weekend, slow to typical approach speed, drop the flaps, cut power, roll in, and pull for an approximation of a tight base to
final. Now do it again with 5 less knots, then again with 10 less, if you can.

Why? See Richard McSpadden's column in the April AOPA Pilot. Ed Wischmeyer's E3 concept is well worth considering.
 
True - I confess I have found myself a bit slow in the pattern from time to time, and I can see how this can happen, particularly when a distraction pops up.

I have not yet gotten so slow that I got the "angle-angle-push" warning or the beeps, but slower than I wanted because I was not paying close enough attention.

This accident is another sad reminder that we need to bring our best selves to every flight.

4th or 5th landing I made with my RV...I got "angle-angle-push" on a 75-knot base-to-final turn that I overshot a bit, and subsequently made too tight and too low. In 50 years, it's the first time I've ever had a stall warning on approach and it scared the **** out of me. It didn't scare me as much at the time as it did afterward when I'd had time to process the implications.
 
E3

Everybody go to 5500 or so this weekend, slow to typical approach speed, drop the flaps, cut power, roll in, and pull for an approximation of a tight base to
final. Now do it again with 5 less knots, then again with 10 less, if you can.

Why? See Richard McSpadden's column in the April AOPA Pilot. Ed Wischmeyer's E3 concept is well worth considering.


Yep, good reads. Here’s the links....

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/general-aviation/2019-04-08/inoculating-pilots-against-loss-control

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2020/april/pilot/safety-spotlight-lessons-from-tragedy
 
4th or 5th landing I made with my RV...I got "angle-angle-push" on a 75-knot base-to-final turn that I overshot a bit, and subsequently made too tight and too low. In 50 years, it's the first time I've ever had a stall warning on approach and it scared the **** out of me. It didn't scare me as much at the time as it did afterward when I'd had time to process the implications.

Here is a thread I started about a similar experience to what you had.

https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?p=1402085
 
Shouldn't happen...

This type of accident is entirely avoidable. Anyone with training in upset recovery or basic aerobatics can recognize the onset of a stall and make the appropriate control inputs to regain normal flight. Absent such training the natural response to a stall is to pull back on the stick and fly deeper into the stall. Please, please, please get some training in aerobatics or stall/spin avoidance. You might even enjoy the training and one day become one of the very few RV pilots who enjoy aerobatic competition!
 
Everybody go to 5500 or so this weekend, slow to typical approach speed, drop the flaps, cut power, roll in, and pull for an approximation of a tight base to
final. Now do it again with 5 less knots, then again with 10 less, if you can.

Why? See Richard McSpadden's column in the April AOPA Pilot. Ed Wischmeyer's E3 concept is well worth considering.

On my BFR review (technically it's just FR now) last week, my instructor talked me through something similar to what Dan is suggesting. I slowed the RV-8 down to pattern speed, started a left turn base-to-final, pulled up the nose a bit to tighten the turn, then stepped on left rudder. The -8 immediately shook and started to enter a spin. :eek: I didn't need any prompting to recover ;). Try it (at altitude of course). If you are nervous about it, take along a qualified instructor. Afterwards, buy him lunch.

Chris
 
Just an FYI, I've been in there a few times and I'm betting he was over some pretty tall trees giving him very little squiggle room. Unfortunately it is a challenging strip and the locals have lots of stories.
Very sorry for the loss of your friend. Best wishes for his wife.
danny

Just saw it happened in 2019. No wonder I couldn't find it in local news. Doh!
 
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Base to final problems.........

I slowed the RV-8 down to pattern speed, started a left turn base-to-final, pulled up the nose a bit to tighten the turn, then stepped on left rudder. The -8 immediately shook and started to enter a spin. :eek: I didn't need any prompting to recover ;). Try it (at altitude of course)

When I was prepping for my Flight Testing and my first flight in SuzieQ, Dean Hall and I went out in his RV-4 and we did several "let me show you something"s. One was to line up (at altitude) perpendicular to a road as if on base, and overshoot, turn "base to final" and push the left (wing down) rudder to get the airplane lined up with the runway again and see what happened. In a left, tight turn, the right wing will start to fly faster but at a greater AOA, disrupting the airflow, and the left (lower) wing will fly slower, resulting in a stall-spin entry. :eek::eek::eek: Well, THAT got my attention.....

I find when I am in the pattern, whatever I am flying, slowing to pattern airspeeds and making turns, my feet actually reflexively come OFF the rudder pedals and I find I am making small, almost tapping inputs until I am on final and done with pattern turns. I think I was doing that before the little "watch this" demonstration, maybe from my initial training.

And here is another issue: I was talking to a friend who is learning to fly in a 172 and they no longer teach stalls!!! Approach to stalls is all you get!!! Difficult to believe! SO: if you are one of those who was not taught how to stall an airplane, go out with your airplane and do a bunch of stalls! It will make you become more familiar with your airplane and maybe keep you from doing what happened to the RV. Freaked out to do that (you SHOULDN'T be): get and instructor. AND find someone who teaches recovery from unusual attitudes. And does SPINS. They had just taken spins out of the check ride by the time I got my ticket (many moons ago). One CANNOT adequately know their airplane, especially in the Test Flight Phase (!!!), without knowing what your airplane does in stall attitudes, which includes departure stalls.

I have been flying for a while (no, I did not know Wilber and Orville personally:D) but still go out and do slow flight, turns on and around a point, stalls of various types (who knows what a "falling leaf" maneuver is?) which are basics. Can any pilot be so good they forget basic flying? Can you still do "S" turns on a road and stay on it? Your head and eyes have to be OUT of the cockpit to do some of these basics correctly.

AOA? Stall warning? I cannot remember the last time I flew in an airplane with one (probably the 180) but it likely would startle me when it went off, especially in the flare, as I am not used to them. Are they nice to have? I suppose, especially if that is what you are used to having. Awareness of the way your airplane flies and awareness of the attitude at all times shouldn't be replaced by devices. What if you are used to landing by hearing the stall warning or watching the AOA and it fails? How are your landings then? Not sure you can even put one in the J-3..........;)

IMHO; Nomex Underwear firmly in place......;)
 
Square Patterns

I remember not so long ago in training I was taught to fly a nice rectangular pattern, and even got a compliment on my checkride for doing so w/ wind correction.

I wish we would stop teaching that habit. As soon as the training wheels were taken off I quit doing that, and ever since fly a nice easy semicircle from downwind to final, or if I have to fly a true base leg for traffic or towers a big rounded off base to final turn. I always figured if the base to final turn is a danger point, why not eliminate it. I firmly believe I know how to fly a traditional rectangular pattern safely and predictably, but in the back of my mind I know every other pilot that had an accident thought the same thing.
 
AOA? Stall warning? I cannot remember the last time I flew in an airplane with one (probably the 180) but it likely would startle me when it went off, especially in the flare, as I am not used to them. Are they nice to have? I suppose, especially if that is what you are used to having. Awareness of the way your airplane flies and awareness of the attitude at all times shouldn't be replaced by devices. What if you are used to landing by hearing the stall warning or watching the AOA and it fails? How are your landings then? Not sure you can even put one in the J-3..........;)

I'm quite curious how one could compare statistics of different types of pilots.
-Aerobatic pilots spend their time exploiting the edge of the flight envelope. Frequently crossing into stalled flight intentionally and very controlled.
-Airline pilots spend their flight time avoiding the edges of the flight envelope as much as is possible. They even bring a second pilot with them and a whole bunch of fancy gadgets to help avoid problems such as a stall.

I can't remember the last time an airliner experienced a stall/spin accident, perhaps Colgan 3407 from 12 years ago (many more contributing factors). How often do aerobatic pilots, who are highly experienced in the stall regime, encounter inadvertent stall/spin accidents? I have no idea, and I suspect there's no way to find out.

Most pilots operate somewhere in the middle. Aren't constantly and intentionally practicing various different types of stalls. Also, aren't 2-crew airline, stick shaker/pusher/fly-by-wire envelope protection type fancy gizmos. The direction we seem to be going is adding gizmos to our planes. AoA measuring and indicating devices, visual and aural warnings for stalls and overspeed. The old school of thought, is like Roadjunkie1 where we practice stalls much more frequently. I suppose there's no reason we can't do both? Beautiful nice sunny weekend, go out and explore the envelope. If one is accustomed to stalling, it will be more familiar if...when it happens by accident. We would be more used to the signs of an impending stall, so be more aware of what's happening before losing control.
 
Stalls

Bob Hoover described extra speed as "money in the bank" and a maneuver that costs speed as "making a withdrawal". It has always served me well to carry some extra speed until wings level on final and then make the final speed reduction.
In the history of US aerobatic competition in the IAC era I don't ever recall a stall spin accident during a contest. Lots of stall spin accidents in practice, almost always a lack of proper training.
Anyone up for an inverted falling leaf?
 
I remember not so long ago in training I was taught to fly a nice rectangular pattern, and even got a compliment on my checkride for doing so w/ wind correction.

I wish we would stop teaching that habit. As soon as the training wheels were taken off I quit doing that, and ever since fly a nice easy semicircle from downwind to final, or if I have to fly a true base leg for traffic or towers a big rounded off base to final turn. I always figured if the base to final turn is a danger point, why not eliminate it. I firmly believe I know how to fly a traditional rectangular pattern safely and predictably, but in the back of my mind I know every other pilot that had an accident thought the same thing.

Only trouble is if there is some guy sneaking in on final you won't have a chance to see him. It always seemed prudent to me to level the wings on base and have one last good look that final was clear. There are still quite a few folks that don't believe in radios and fly around unannounced.
 
One of my better learning moments was two years after primary when Jan Bussell introduced me to accelerated stalls during transition training. Can't believe I went two years with instructors before I was shown this.
 
I'm quite curious how one could compare statistics of different types of pilots.
-Aerobatic pilots spend their time exploiting the edge of the flight envelope. Frequently crossing into stalled flight intentionally and very controlled.
-Airline pilots spend their flight time avoiding the edges of the flight envelope as much as is possible. They even bring a second pilot with them and a whole bunch of fancy gadgets to help avoid problems such as a stall.

I can't remember the last time an airliner experienced a stall/spin accident, perhaps Colgan 3407 from 12 years ago (many more contributing factors). How often do aerobatic pilots, who are highly experienced in the stall regime, encounter inadvertent stall/spin accidents? I have no idea, and I suspect there's no way to find out.

Most pilots operate somewhere in the middle. Aren't constantly and intentionally practicing various different types of stalls. Also, aren't 2-crew airline, stick shaker/pusher/fly-by-wire envelope protection type fancy gizmos. The direction we seem to be going is adding gizmos to our planes. AoA measuring and indicating devices, visual and aural warnings for stalls and overspeed. The old school of thought, is like Roadjunkie1 where we practice stalls much more frequently. I suppose there's no reason we can't do both? Beautiful nice sunny weekend, go out and explore the envelope. If one is accustomed to stalling, it will be more familiar if...when it happens by accident. We would be more used to the signs of an impending stall, so be more aware of what's happening before losing control.

There have been at least two Airbus stall accidents in the last 10 years. Both copilots in each case were ab intro pilots trained to fly airliners in simulators with very little actual stick time. One was a A330 in the Atlanta (AF447) and another was a A320 in the Pacific (QZ8501). In the case of AF447 both pilots at the controls were ab intro trained directly into airliners and had limited other flying experience. Neither recognized they were in a stall. The Captain on break who had extensive stick and rudder time recognized the stall but it was to late when he returned and the copilot continued to hold full aft stick to impact. The identical thing happened on QZ8501 where the copilot held full aft stick preventing recovery. The Airbus sums left and right stick inputs which combined with autotrim systems prevented a better outcome.
 
Wide patterns............

Only trouble is if there is some guy sneaking in on final you won't have a chance to see him. It always seemed prudent to me to level the wings on base and have one last good look that final was clear. There are still quite a few folks that don't believe in radios and fly around unannounced.

I agree. On downwind, I look behind to make sure someone isn't cutting me from inside the pattern (although my patterns are pretty tight) and, of course, outside of where I am to make sure someone isn't doing a W I D E pattern, which are pretty common here. On base I look again, especially someone doing a straight-in (did I say Cirrus out loud?) and, on final I look DOWN the runway to make sure someone isn't landing upwind. That has happened more than once. One a white Cassut (read tiny) and saw him JUST in time.

A W I D E pattern here is pretty common. There is a Class D airspace 1.5 miles to the South and so many people (hundreds a month) have busted the airspace they had to put a warning at the end of the local ATIS.

I understand the rational for rounded patterns but will likely still be doing a "normal" pattern, maybe slightly rounded. Better to see you with, my dear!
 
Interesting tidbit about Airbus aerodynamic stalls. In "normal law", Airbus aircraft have envelope protection where the fly-by-wire computers won't allow the aircraft to stall or overstress. Once those computers start getting bad info, pitot ice in AF447, they can't provide such protections anymore. It's a downgrade in the flight control "laws".

We've come up with 3 airliner stalls in 12 years, and only 1 of which was approach/landing phase. The other 2 involved malfunctions of the stall protection gizmos. I suppose that means that yes, we do certainly need to be practicing stalls and the more easily encountered corners of the flight envelope. The fancy gizmos fail (for a multitude or reasons), and don't protect us when needed the most.
 
This type of accident is entirely avoidable. Anyone with training in upset recovery or basic aerobatics can recognize the onset of a stall and make the appropriate control inputs to regain normal flight. Absent such training the natural response to a stall is to pull back on the stick and fly deeper into the stall. Please, please, please get some training in aerobatics or stall/spin avoidance. You might even enjoy the training and one day become one of the very few RV pilots who enjoy aerobatic competition!

Totally agree. IMO those who advocate for nothing but stall avoidance training don't seem to appreciate the fact that those who regularly operate up to and past the critical AOA regimes are generally not the ones accidentally stalling and drilling in from a simple base to final turn. There is an ingrained awareness and comfort level that goes along with this experience and training you mention. Those who only exist on the side of pure stall avoidance training are generally uncomfortable and unfamiliar with what happens when you cross that line.

Certain skills are valuable not because learning them will allow you to pull off some heroic low altitude save, but that learning them will make it less likely you put yourself in the position of ever HAVING to use these skills in order to save your butt.
 
There was also the Korean plane that hit the sea wall in SFO. Not a stall, but if I recall the facts correctly, probably done due to unfamiliarity with and fear of the edge of the envelope and stick and rudder skills.

Tim
 
There was also the Korean plane that hit the sea wall in SFO. Not a stall, but if I recall the facts correctly, probably done due to unfamiliarity with and fear of the edge of the envelope and stick and rudder skills.

Tim

That accident was actually the classic ‘Who’s in charge’ accident. The pilot flying was a very senior pilot but he was still ‘checking out’ in the 777. There was a training pilot on board, who was experienced in 777s but was junior to the pilot flying, and very reluctant to speak up. IIRC the pilot flying was relying on automation- in this case auto-throttles-but they were in fact not engaged.

As to the topic of spin training, I have a somewhat bizarre opinion. I believe the basic data - that the fatality rate went down after mandatory spin training was eliminated - was correct, but misinterpreted by the faa. Namely, the real problem of that era was that common primary trainers (152s and Piper ‘tramahawks’) were not really up to the job. The Tomahawks were extremely sensitive to rigging (they had stall strips installed in an attempt to fix this) and there were accidents where qualified cfi’s deliberately demonstrating spins spun to the ground - apparently the airplane would not recover conventionally. And 152’s had accidents where slightly worn rudder stop bolts would slip over the rudder fitting and jam the rudder full left (or right). If the faa had demanded, much earlier, that the airplanes used be fixed, I think the statistics would have flipped, showing stall training was in fact a good thing. That’s my opinion.
 
Stall Warning

I did not realize Vans was supplying kits without stall warning devices but I guess understandable. Maybe now I know why they would not let me eliminate the stall warning hardware in the 10 just ordered. With ANR headsets I was concerned I could not hear the warning anyway but the Garmin AOA comes right through the headsets. Plus the 14 and 10 seem almost stall proof or at least not very aggressive. Yes flying a square pattern for at least a few seconds of base makes since to give an added look out the side. At my home base seems a lot of folks making straight in approaches at fairly high speeds. Let's all be careful on that turn to final, it may look cool at lower altitudes but demanding at least. Sorry to read about the loss.
 
For a Canadian Private license, spins are demonstrated in training and stalls are a flight test item*.
For a Canadian Commercial license, spins are a flight test item*.

For what it's worth, multi-engine training in Canada used to require a full engine shutdown in flight, but that requirement changed some time after I completed my training. I was lucky enough to shut down an engine for demonstration purposes twice in a Piper Seminole and once in a King Air.

In my day job, the 6 month sim training requires approach to stall training in various scenarios. Clean, level stalls, departure stall and approach stall. Every 6 months I see the warning signs of an impending stall in various situations. Why we don't actually stall the plane (actually a sim)? I'm not sure, perhaps it's got something to do with being in a simulator.

*Disclaimer: that was as of 2008 when I got my licenses. If it's changed, please correct me
 
Piloting skills.............

I wish this thread had another title. There is a great exchange of ideas happening here that should be read by people who may not read this as they don't want to hear about an airplane crash. We are all devastated with what happened and that we lost one of our own. And there but for the grace of our talents as pilots and our instructors we all go. How many times have we all said, Oh, woops.... and corrected in time something we were not doing correctly? This thread gives us a chance to think about what we do in the pattern (and elsewhere) that will improve our skills as pilots. It is a constructive exchange of ideas that needs to be shared to honor our lost friend. And it is what he likely would have wanted to come from this.

I remember watching the Olympics one year and wondering what they had to do with me. I certainly was never going to be at that physical level. But they were demonstrating a perfection of their skill for all of us to see. They did not come off the parallel bars and land somewhere, bouncing, if they were to podium. They would come off and land THERE and STICK IT. How can I apply that to my life? I can maybe be a little more perfect in my piloting. When I enter downwind, I have a specific speed I need to be. Downwind to base: same thing. How close am I? Is 5 knots over OK? Nope. I mean yes, but it isn't. How close to my final speed am I? Right on? That is perfection. Were do I land? Just there, somewhere on the runway? Or do I try to land THERE and STICK IT?

Perfection. Practice. Honing our skills as pilots. Not taking for granted that we know it all already. Reviewing the basics we may have forgotten. Knowing as much as you can learn about this amazing airplane that keeps you in the air. How does it feel on the edge of the "safe" envelope of our airplane? How much can one pull at a certain speed before the wing quits flying? We don't all have to be aerobats but knowing as much as we can about our airplanes, and, thus, ourselves as pilots may keep us out of situations we and our families would like us to avoid. Our ability to fly is a gift. That we fly the airplanes that we (mostly) built ourselves is a special gift. We need to honor those gifts.
 
For a Canadian Private license, spins are demonstrated in training and stalls are a flight test item*.
For a Canadian Commercial license, spins are a flight test item*.

For what it's worth, multi-engine training in Canada used to require a full engine shutdown in flight, but that requirement changed some time after I completed my training. I was lucky enough to shut down an engine for demonstration purposes twice in a Piper Seminole and once in a King Air.

In my day job, the 6 month sim training requires approach to stall training in various scenarios. Clean, level stalls, departure stall and approach stall. Every 6 months I see the warning signs of an impending stall in various situations. Why we don't actually stall the plane (actually a sim)? I'm not sure, perhaps it's got something to do with being in a simulator.

*Disclaimer: that was as of 2008 when I got my licenses. If it's changed, please correct me

At my day job, they started having us do stalls. .low altitude, high altitude and deep stalls..it seems the FAA got back into stalls for airlines here in the states.
 
I wish this thread had another title. There is a great exchange of ideas happening here that should be read by people who may not read this as they don't want to hear about an airplane crash. We are all devastated with what happened and that we lost one of our own. And there but for the grace of our talents as pilots and our instructors we all go. How many times have we all said, Oh, woops.... and corrected in time something we were not doing correctly? This thread gives us a chance to think about what we do in the pattern (and elsewhere) that will improve our skills as pilots. It is a constructive exchange of ideas that needs to be shared to honor our lost friend. And it is what he likely would have wanted to come from this.

I remember watching the Olympics one year and wondering what they had to do with me. I certainly was never going to be at that physical level. But they were demonstrating a perfection of their skill for all of us to see. They did not come off the parallel bars and land somewhere, bouncing, if they were to podium. They would come off and land THERE and STICK IT. How can I apply that to my life? I can maybe be a little more perfect in my piloting. When I enter downwind, I have a specific speed I need to be. Downwind to base: same thing. How close am I? Is 5 knots over OK? Nope. I mean yes, but it isn't. How close to my final speed am I? Right on? That is perfection. Were do I land? Just there, somewhere on the runway? Or do I try to land THERE and STICK IT?

Perfection. Practice. Honing our skills as pilots. Not taking for granted that we know it all already. Reviewing the basics we may have forgotten. Knowing as much as you can learn about this amazing airplane that keeps you in the air. How does it feel on the edge of the "safe" envelope of our airplane? How much can one pull at a certain speed before the wing quits flying? We don't all have to be aerobats but knowing as much as we can about our airplanes, and, thus, ourselves as pilots may keep us out of situations we and our families would like us to avoid. Our ability to fly is a gift. That we fly the airplanes that we (mostly) built ourselves is a special gift. We need to honor those gifts.
Well said, Michael.
 
One of my instructors taught me the three rules of flying:

1. Don't go too slow.

2. Don't go too slow.

3. Don't go too slow.
 
I dunno. I think that advice is why I fly a bit faster on approach than most people until I'm on short final.

Yup, I'm often 70-75 knots over the numbers - but with a constant speed prop and full flaps it doesn't take long at all to dump the energy.

Short strips require a little more attention, but realistically for RV's "short" means less than 2000'.
 
So I wonder: How does the stall-spin fatality rate in Canada compare to that in the US?

I did some digging on this. It's easy to find the number of stall/spin accidents in each country. A couple hours of data digging and could have the total number in each country for a calendar year, 2020 for example. The difficult part is finding the "rate" part. Stall/spin accidents per flight hour means I need the number of hours flown in the GA community in each country for the year as well. That part is proving impossible.
 
Airspeed

Placard over the ramp door at aa small FBO somewhere in TX.
Maintain thy airspeed, lest the earth rise up and smite thee.
 
Airspeed

Placard over the exit to the ramp, somewhere in TX:
Maintain thy airspeed, lest the earth rise up and smite thee!
 
For a Canadian Private license, spins are demonstrated in training and stalls are a flight test item*.
For a Canadian Commercial license, spins are a flight test item*.

For what it's worth, multi-engine training in Canada used to require a full engine shutdown in flight, but that requirement changed some time after I completed my training. I was lucky enough to shut down an engine for demonstration purposes twice in a Piper Seminole and once in a King Air.

In my day job, the 6 month sim training requires approach to stall training in various scenarios. Clean, level stalls, departure stall and approach stall. Every 6 months I see the warning signs of an impending stall in various situations. Why we don't actually stall the plane (actually a sim)? I'm not sure, perhaps it's got something to do with being in a simulator.

*Disclaimer: that was as of 2008 when I got my licenses. If it's changed, please correct me

the quick answer is, they never had the data to program a full stall into the sim. now that the FAA is requiring full stalls in transport cat aircraft the manufactures and the sim manufactures had to do the full stalls in the aircraft and collect the data to program the sims, and we are now beating the **** out of the sims doing it. the first time I did it in the bus it was eye opening to say the least.

as for the approach to stall **** from the FAA now, I don't care whats on the PTS your still going to learn full stalls if I teach you. you will know what you need to do to pass the test, but you will also know what to do to survive in the real world.

I think this whole idea of keeping away from the edges of the envelop is stupid. learn to fly your aircraft to the edge, so when you accidentally get there its not a surprise.

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB
 
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