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Superior Engine Problem

D

Dprestonsr

Member
We have a 7A with the Superior XP-360 engine. This bird first flew in April 2006. In may '06 it backfired during a hot start and blew the bottom out of the composite plenum. We were able to get a new sump/plenum from Superior at no cost. At that time we were told that ours was the 11th to blow out of 200+ engines. Not good odds. Shortly thereafter we received a letter stating they were in the process of revising the design of the Ryton sump and when available we wouild be contacted to arrange replacement with the new design. The new sump was to be ready in October 2006. Next we received a letter dated November 14, 2006 changing the delivery date to mid/late December 2006. About 2 weeks ago we had another backfire during a hot start and again blew out the plenum. We contacted Superior and received a new plenum. Now we have received a bill for $1600.00 + which was never mentioned previously. We don't feel we should have to pay for this sump. The redesigned sump/plenum has yet to be available.

Have any of you had this problem? Has anyone installed a lycoming cold induction sump on a Superior? Would it fit? We want to install a safe sump and don't know which direction to go. Any suggestions appreciated.
 
I too had the same problem with my XP-360, and right about the same time. I did not replace it with another superior sump and was not going to wait for the new designed sump either. The sump I got was a forward facing aluminum sump from a americas aircraft engines in Oklahoma? Had to get a new exhaust system and modify the snout just abit but other than that it wasn't to terrible to do. Then I sent them a bill for around 4500 bucks (which included about 1100.00 in labor). They took about 1.5 months to pay..

Good luck

Stormy
 
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Dprestonsr:
Man, that is terrible. Most have heard of this problem and know superior is trying to fix it, but come on. I am buying a new engine in next couple of months and stories like this make it easy for me to mark one Co. off my list. I hope they stand behind their product for you. When i spend 20K+ on an engine, I don't expect that kind of experience.
Maybe it was an accidental bill sent out by someone in A/P but still, what a hassell.
Seems like they did a great job of fixing the problem for Stormy so credit there.
Please keep us posted on how this is resolved.

jeff h
 
I have one of their engines and the dealings I had with them were always good. I honestly dont think they would charge you for the sump. Probably a mistake.
But let us know in any case. EJ
 
I think that it is likely that the charge for the replacement sump was an error. If I were you, I would call Superior and ask them about it. I think that if the sump failed due to normal engine operation, which a backfire on start would be considered, they would replace your sump at no charge. However if it was damaged from a accident or something like that I think they would be entitled to charge for it. In addition they may have charged you for the replacement "on paper" pending the return of your failed sump, for warranty consideration. This is a common approach. It is difficult for a company to just fork over parts, on a mere say so, without the failed parts being available to see first. It is obviously up to their warranty department but they have always been fair in that regard to me. The newest replacement sump from Superior will be quite a while in coming. The revised design that was to be available at the end of last year didn't cut it and now another redesign is in the works. If it were mine, I would not have the RYTON sump on an engine with electronic wasted spark ignition. Superior also does not recommend that sump on so equipped engines.
Good Luck,
Mahlon
"The opinions and information provided in this and all of my posts are hopefully helpful to you. Please use the information provided responsibly and at your own risk."
 
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The new sump is going to be magnesium, I was told. Will be available towards the end of the year. EJ
 
Forward facing sump options

I am "THIS" close to ordering my Superior engine through Penn Yan Aero and was going to call later today to get some more details. The hold up has been the forward facing sump. I called late last year and like many others had been told, the newly designed composite sump would be available in January. I called Superior a couple weeks ago and it sounds like they have switched companies that were designing the new sump, which would delay the new sump release until much later in the year.

The option I had been considering, which Superior was completely fine with, was purchasing the engine with the sump with a known defect now so I could continue working on construction. Then, when the new sump was released, they would ship the new part out to me and pay for its installation. As others have said, I suspect the charge the original poster received for the replacement sump was a errant charge that could get resolved with a quick phone call.

I already have my finish kit with the cowling designed for forward facing sump, so besides the fact that I really like the look of the cowling without the lower snorkel, I'm "stuck" with the forward facing sump unless I go through the hassle of trying to find a way to get the other cowl (maybe swapping parts with another RV-8 builder in the area that has yet to order their finish kit).

The option that is always there is to forgo the less expensive composite sump and go with a forward facing lightweight aluminum sump. As I unerstand, this option that Penn Yan offers is with a real Lycoming part. It would push the price of the XS-IO-360 engine from $21,500 to $23,250, which while being a big jump, in the grand scheme of things for the whole project isn't "a lot of money". When did $1,750 become cump-change? ;) Suggestions?
 
rv72004 said:
The new sump is going to be magnesium, I was told. Will be available towards the end of the year. EJ
Click to expand...

Wonder why magnesium?

It is a highly flammable metal that once ignited, can not be extinguished. More than one KC-97 bit the dust when a wing burned off as a result of a magnesium fire at the engine.

Must be cheaper than aluminum.
 
Magnesium is lighter weight than the standard sump which is aluminum, which was the original benefit of the Ryton sump of composite materials.
 
Better composites are in order and a proper FADEC so that backfires don't happen to begin with. Not a problem with plastic intakes on BMW, Toyota although Porsche had some problems when first introduced. Magnesium is a bad choice for an intake manifold. Takes a bit to ignite it but when it does, say goodbye to the whole airplane. Not going to save more than a few pounds over aluminum. If it works, leave it alone.
 
rv6ejguy said:
Magnesium is a bad choice for an intake manifold. Takes a bit to ignite it but when it does, say goodbye to the whole airplane. Not going to save more than a few pounds over aluminum. If it works, leave it alone.
Click to expand...

I wonder if you could line a mag manifold or sump with a thin layer of heat resistant paint or plastic to get around the flammability issue.
 
rv6ejguy said:
Magnesium is a bad choice for an intake manifold. Takes a bit to ignite it but when it does, say goodbye to the whole airplane.
Click to expand...

Our cold air induction systems have been made from magnesium for almost 20 years and have never had one ignite. If the fire's hot enough to ignite the magnesium, you're in the airplane too long - get out!! :eek:
 
Like I said, it takes a lot to ignite a mag casting- a backfire or even intake fire probably won't because of conduction but if it does light, you can't put it out with an extinguisher and it burns at about 4000F! Just so people are aware. Saw a bike side cover go up once and consume the whole bike in 5 minutes. A brilliant sight I might add.
 
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