What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Oil

J

JohnF

Well Known Member
You may be interested in the discussions of zinc dithiosphosphate (ZDDP) in Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 in the Matronics web site under Rotax engines. Word is that Aeroshell is going to reformulate that oil to almost double the ZDDP because of wear concerns.

Also search ZDDP on google or whatever and consider what is going on with oils now.

FWIW
 
Sport 4 problem teaser!

Could you please post a couple of web site links. I can't find anything on google. What exactly is the problem with sport 4? :confused:
 
Its all so confusing

I don't know guys, Reading those threads with Roger Lee is almost as bad as reading about the Viking engine. I think I'm Sticking with the manufacturer suggested oil for now. How does Roger know that Aeroshell is considering changing it formula?
I have been told they are going to reformulate next year with a new base stock and up the ZDDP level to around 1500ppm.
Click to expand...
Like who told him that. Its all very confusing.:confused:I might be talked in adding some of the ZDDP to the oil as John has suggested on that form. I get no squeak when turning the prop for oil quantity check.:eek:
 
On another forum Roger Lee has corrected himself and apologized. Apparently he got the information from a Rotax person high enough in the food chain that he should have known what he was talking about. Roger has pulled the MSDS for the oil which shows between 1000 and 2000 ppm ZDDP. So, this oil should be just fine.
 
As Usual...

I tend to be suspicious of experts that aren't paid by the manufacturer or those who create magic from a junkyard containing data plates. Rotax has excellent manuals for anyone with the experimental bug that wants to be as precise as they are and maintain a dependable engine. Like my own, opinions are free and junkyard parts might as well be. These threads come from where?
 
Glad to hear this one was cleared up. I was about to go back to VTwin motorcycle synthetic. How do these things get started anyway?
Dick Seiders
 
New Rorax Service Instruction posted SI-912-016 R4

Rotax has updated its Service Instruction on Selection of operating fluids, Oil Coolant, & Fuel.
First thing I Noticed was again the only oil Rotax actually tested was:
rotax1012-1.jpg

The next Oil they recommend was oil based on recommendation from , "Authorized Distributors" what ever that means. Also see the notes about what the codes mean on the far right of the list:
rotax2014.jpg

Now here is an interesting tidbit about adjusting when to change your oil if you are running Avgas (100LL) and again the only oil actually tested by Rotax was Aeroshell Sport 4. the rest were fom recommentdations from authorized distributors and are not shown in this pic:
rotax3015.jpg

The next thing of interest is this info about what type of Auto fuel you can use. Make a big note of 5.2 Avgas fuel additives cause there are a lot of rumors floating around about TCP and Decalin and also note that these are from field Experience:
rotax4016.jpg

Then last but not least is the General engine operation requirements and operating tips. Note number 1. which has been discussed at length here on the form during the hot summer months and Note 5 is interesting cause somewhere someone came up with 190F for water evaporation. Maybe a hold over from Lycs and Conts.;)
rotax5017.jpg

You can read the whole document here at this location:
http://legacy.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/serviceinfo/si-912-016-r4.pdf
 
Last edited:
Regarding the use of additives, is everyone using them when Avgas is used? Mitch Locke runs his 12 exclusively on avgas and uses an additive (one of the two mentioned-not sure which one). Mine has had a steady diet of mogas so far, but that will change with availability on trips. Which product are you guys using and where do you get it?
 
Decalin

I have a bottle of Decalin I bought from A/C Spruce. I carry it whenever there's a possibility I might have to use 100LL. So far I haven't gotten far enough from home to need it. Decalin can be carried in the cockpit much more safely.

Wayne 120241/143WM
 
Oil change interval

I almost hate to bring this up, but since I have about 25 hours on my oil (50 hrs TTSN) I have to decide whether it needs changing or not. I run 100% 100LL. My engine uses essentially no oil between changes and it looks as clean today as it did when it came out of the bottle.

I am confused by the Rotax manuals on this subject.

Page 16 of Section 05-20-00 of the current Rotax Line Maintenance Manual says the oil should be changed at 100 hours, or 50 hours if running on 100LL.

However, SI-912-016-R4 Section 3.3 first lists 50 hours, then farther down this changes to 25 hours.

So, what is Rotax really saying here? 50, or 25?

Secondly, has Rotax published an opinion on the use of additives, such as Decalin?
 
Use the latest info!

John, Use the SI-912-016-R4 info, its the most current. Its easier to update info with Service Instruction letter then go back later and change the manual. Probably somewhere down the road when Rotax gets a chance they will update the Manual. ;)
 
Via everything I have read. If using 100LL, a 25 hour oil change is recommended. If not, a 50 hour oil change is conservative.
 
Does anyone ever run 100 hrs between oil changes? I burn only mogas using semi-syn 4 but even at that change every 35 hrs or three months. Am I being too old school here? Maybe move to 50 hrs and 6 months? Appreciate feedback.
Dick Seiders
 
Hey Dick - -

I have a Thermostasis 205 degree oil therm, and only mogas. I am going 100 hours. Without an oil therm, I might consider less hours. My oil gets up to temp EVERY time I run it. I am using Aeroshell Sport 4 oil.

John Bender
 
JBPILOT said:
I have a Thermostasis 205 degree oil therm, and only mogas. I am going 100 hours. Without an oil therm, I might consider less hours. My oil gets up to temp EVERY time I run it. I am using Aeroshell Sport 4 oil. John Bender
Click to expand...

John,

Thanks for that info. I plan on installing the oil thermostat at the time of my condition inspection this winter. I really hate those long warmups. I keep thinking about all the hours I am putting on the engine just idling!

Had an interesting conversation with Phil Lockwood at AOPA Summit about the possibility of them offering a complete installation kit for that, all the fittings, hoses etc. included. Hope he takes my advice and does it.

John
 
Hey John - -

I am not a spokesperson for them, but the Thermostasis is the only one I'd recommend. The std. silver automotive version is just not near as good. If they offer a kit, I'm guessing it would be with the automotive version.

John - you are very true about warm up time. They advertise saving gas with the oil therm, and this time of year, it is VERY true.

John Bender
 
Such Low Maintenance!

At OSH I talked to Lockwood and he said they were doing 100 hour oil changes on their school planes using Aeroshell Sport 4 and straight Car gas. So I will eventually do the same. We also run straight car gas. Our next oil change will be done a 75 hours. Then the next at 100 hours. I'm not sure we will fly more than 100 hours per year so if we reach 12 months before the oil change occurs then we will do it at annual. Man this plane is so economical to fly.:cool:
 
Ok, John. The Thermostasis sounds like something I'll go for as it may help to provide more heat in the cold weather. Would you be kind enough to provide pics of your installation? Also why go for 205? Isn't 190 sufficient to clear all the moisture out? Lastly no one has mentioned the time interval. All oil picks up **** over time, and usually the interval OR the flying hours are the deciding oil change gate. So are you doing 100 hrs or six months, or what?
Appreciate your help. Thanks.
Dick Seiders
 
Recommended operating temp...

dick seiders said:
Ok, John. The Thermostasis sounds like something I'll go for as it may help to provide more heat in the cold weather. Would you be kind enough to provide pics of your installation? Also why go for 205? Isn't 190 sufficient to clear all the moisture out? Lastly no one has mentioned the time interval. All oil picks up **** over time, and usually the interval OR the flying hours are the deciding oil change gate. So are you doing 100 hrs or six months, or what?
Appreciate your help. Thanks.
Dick Seiders
Click to expand...

Dick,
Quote from page 12 of SI-912-016-R4 reads:
"To avoid formation of condensation water in the motor oil, the oil temperature must rise at least once each operational day to at least 100?C (212?F)."

Our local Rotax expert says oil is relatively cheap in the overall scheme of things, change it at 25 hours as it's the lifeblood of your engine. I sorta grunted when he said that, seems like a waste of resources to me.

I am using 92 E10 and Plus 4, occasional top up with 100LL on X-country, and am doing 50 hour oil changes right now, don't plan to increase the interval, but am considering decreasing it, especially if I get one of those fancy quick drain plugs :rolleyes:.

If I had to use 100LL regularly (the SI says over 30%), I would go to the 25 hours.

Tony
 
Hey Dick - -

You have to understand a few things about the Thermostasis oil therm. It is controlling oil flow as it leaves the tank mainly. That oil is higher temp than what you are reading on the display. The sender is near the oil pump. After that oil goes thru the engine, is is warmer. It is then drawn from the tank into the therm. The Thermostasis is a 98% bypass ( the silver automotive is 90% ). When it gets up to 205 degrees it is 'closed', and forces the oil to go thru the cooler. As the cooled oil comes back from the cooler, it goes thru the 'top' of the therm ( as I have installed it anyway ). Oil then goes back to pump. The oil is various temps depending upon where it is in the system. I wanted to make sure at some point the oil got to a high enough temp to help eliminate mositure. I fly when it is 25 degrees or above on thru the winter.

As their info states, it save money by not having to sit a long time for warm up. It reduces it considerably. The 90% silver automotive by-passes too much all the time, and will only slightly help warm the engine during colder weather.

John Bender
 
Ok, gentlemen, I appreciate the comments. I probably will go with the thermostat as I would like a faster oil warm up, and I need higher oil temps in the winter as last season I had to attach an oil cooler shield to get above 165F on cold days. I think on the oil change I will go for the six month interval at max. or 50 hours of flight. Of course if I ever have the need to use 100ll I carry Decalin on a trip and likely would change oil following the return home. Still would like to see pics of an installation if anyone has it available. Thanks.
Dick Seiders
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top