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First real disappointment

DeltaVee47

Active Member
Today I rigged and trimmed upper and lower cowl, then measured and match drilled the piano hinges upper and side. For the first time in my build I felt disappointed in the quality of the Vans solution to this problem. Trying to push those pins with one hand inserted into the oil check door is a horror. I expect this will need to be done dozens of times in the future. So I searched the archives and read about Skybolt fasteners. I have a quickbuild fuse so the piano hinge is already on the fuse side. Is it feasible and reasonable to do the Skybolt fasteners on the upper cowl? I have no problem with the piano hinges on the side.
Thanks for any insight.
Greg Beckner
N557GB
140366
 
Take a look at an RV-10. The top cowl to firewall pins are a MUCH better system on the -10 that could be used on any of the other models.
 
This topic is likely to raise strong opinions on both sides - the Van's solution is either loved or hated, and not just on the RV-14 as it's been around awhile. I went with the stock build here, and as promised by many, the pins have gotten easier with time. The Van's solution can work, and you end up with a great looking cowl when you are done - IMHO much better looking than screws or camlocs. Use all the plans suggestions including: heavily taper the end of the pin, put a major bend/curve into the pin to help it guide itself around the corner, use boelube generously every time you remove the pins. The biggest drawback I have found is it can be hot in there shortly after a shutdown, but still doable.
 
That's what I did on my QB fuse, worked great. Just be careful to get the spacing right near the motor mount bolts
 
Today I rigged and trimmed upper and lower cowl, then measured and match drilled the piano hinges upper and side. For the first time in my build I felt disappointed in the quality of the Vans solution to this problem. Trying to push those pins with one hand inserted into the oil check door is a horror. I expect this will need to be done dozens of times in the future. So I searched the archives and read about Skybolt fasteners. I have a quickbuild fuse so the piano hinge is already on the fuse side. Is it feasible and reasonable to do the Skybolt fasteners on the upper cowl? I have no problem with the piano hinges on the side.
Thanks for any insight.
Greg Beckner
N557GB
140366

Greetings.

Consider using VAF's search feature (or better yet, Google's specific site search) to find examples of what you're looking for.

See here for Skybolt quarter turn fasteners on upper cowl of an RV-14A:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=1272541&postcount=6
 
Solutions

Hi

During the initial build of my 4 the hinges along the length of the cowl were a nightmare. I persevered with them and now think they are great.

However, I did not want a hole in the top of the cowl to access hinges at the top of the firewall and put sky bolt fasteners there.

Good luck with the build whatever you choose to do.
 
I didn’t like the piano hinges in that location at first but now I can get them in and out in about 30 seconds. Boelube helps and the parts wear in a bit. Also make sure you have tapered the hinge locations called out in the instructions, that helped a lot.
 
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I didn?t like the piano hinges in that location at first but now I can get them in and out in about 30 seconds. Boelube helps and the parts wear in a bit. Also make sure you have tapered the ones called out in the instructions, that helped a lot.

Just an opinion, but I like the pins as well. They are low cost and clean. Instead of boelube I use a telfon lube from autozone. It goes on wet then drys to white teflon power. It does not get my hands dirty during install/removal. Take the time to bend the pins very close to the firewall curvature and they work easily.
 
Initially the pins are a real PITA, as the cowlings eventually find their happy place the pin extraction and installation becomes very quick and easy. The real beauty of the system is the very clean cowl lines which are one of the trademarks of the RV. A good dry lubricant at each removal will make life much easier. On both my -6 and -7, after about 100 hrs. the pins begin to work quite smoothly.
 
Thanks to everyone for the input.
I will give the pins awhile longer since they are already there, the cowl looks good and I want to get flying. I?m also put off by the price for the Skybolt product. Wow.
Greg Beckner
N557GB
 
Beolube helps a lot and after you get used to it, they work pretty well.

That said, if you want to get the top cowl off right after shut down, it is pretty hot under there!
 
Instead of boelube I use a telfon lube from autozone. It goes on wet then drys to white teflon power. It does not get my hands dirty during install/removal.

I'm partial to Boeshield T-9; makes dry film and lasts for ever.

I'm curious has anyone tried "seasoning" the hinges using valve grinding compound or similar abrasive?
 
During my build I had heard of issues with the upper cowl bowing up during flight due to the cowl pressure and the slack in the pins.
I also did not like the short pin on one side and a long one on the other with access through the oil door.
I copied a friend and added a small aluminum block to the top middle of the cowl. This screws to a bracket riveted to the firewall. Fiberglassing a lip for it to sit in this holds the cowl down and gives access to equal length pins.
Worked great for five years, holds the cowl from bowing up and make the pins easy.
FP16092013A0001V.jpg

Best picture I could find of the hole.
 
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I had used Skybolts for just the upper firewall on my 8 prior to first flight. After three and a half years of cussing the piano hinges I bit the bullet and picked up the Skybolts for the remainder and installed them this past spring.

I could not be happier with them? 3 minutes with a phillips screw driver and the cowl is off!

The install was a bit tricky with the engine in the airplane but quite do-able. It helped that I haven't painted yet.

oad440.jpg


1z65naa.jpg
 
During my build I had heard of issues with the upper cowl bowing up during flight due to the cowl pressure and the slack in the pins.

The RV-14 standard install is different from the RV-9 in that it uses full sized pins in the hinge and the hinge break is much closer to the upper center of the cowl. The RV-14 cowl does not balloon out at all between the hinges.

The RV-10 uses external access to the aft pins because there is no internal access via the oil door (on the 540 engine the dip stick tube and oil door are on top of the engine). It was thought that most builders would prefer the cleaner look so this method was not used on the RV-14 but it could be incorporated easily if a builder chose to do so.
 
Just an opinion, but I like the pins as well. They are low cost and clean. Instead of boelube I use a telfon lube from autozone. It goes on wet then drys to white teflon power. It does not get my hands dirty during install/removal. Take the time to bend the pins very close to the firewall curvature and they work easily.
I used a different Teflon (dry) lube from Lowes that is goes on wet and dries to a white powder (usually use them on my table saw) and it was awful. It made the pin worse than dry and without a lubrication. I ended up cleaning all the eyelet and use Bluelube.
Like many others, I hated it the pins at the beginning but now love it. It is much faster than screws and it looks all clean.
 
I am using skybolts on the top cowl. I saw a friend who did this and he could remove it in 30sec for a good preflight. Bottom is still piano hinge because with the top off I can see most everything.
 
The RV-14 standard install is different from the RV-9 in that it uses full sized pins in the hinge and the hinge break is much closer to the upper center of the cowl. The RV-14 cowl does not balloon out at all between the hinges.

The RV-10 uses external access to the aft pins because there is no internal access via the oil door (on the 540 engine the dip stick tube and oil door are on top of the engine). It was thought that most builders would prefer the cleaner look so this method was not used on the RV-14 but it could be incorporated easily if a builder chose to do so.

Any resources to show how a builder might do this?
 
Drill Rod

McMaster sells drill rod material, it comes in many sizes. Someone posted this a long time ago. Purchase a few rods a few thousands smaller and see which one fits tight but not so tight you need to use a pair of vice grips :) Once you get some time on the plane you can go up in size if needed to keep a nice tight fit.

Gary
 
I used the hinges on my first RV (RV6), camlocks on my second airplane (RV8), and hinges on my 3rd and latest RV8. If I build a fourth (unlikely) it will have hinges. I was careful with installation and the pins slide in relatively easy. There is no pillowing like there can be with the camlocks, it is much less expensive, and the final look is neater in my opinion, v.s. rows of camlocks. It?s a personal preference. I can get my cowling off in 30 seconds (after removing the screws at the nose area - like we all have to do), and installation is only slightly longer, but quicker than what I experienced with camlocks. Both systems worked quite well, but I prefer the cleaner look of the hinges. I also used hinges on my wingtips. If I take my time, it will take me 30 seconds to remove, or reinstall my wingtips.
 
Hi guys try replacing the pins with 3mm stainless steel cable soldered on the ends and sharpened like a blunt pencil. So easy to use!
 
You can also slightly ‘ream’ the cowl hinges with a modified hinge pin. I did this on my RV6 many years ago, and with my new RV8 and it ended up working very well. Pins went in without much resistance and I was able to install them without using a pair of pliers or some other tool. When I got it back from the paint shop, they were once again very difficult to slip in - including my wingtip hinge pins - so I once again ‘reamed’ them. The reamer is the same size hinge pin with the end flattened with a hammer on the anvil end of my bench vise. This flattened end is just slightly wider than the normal hinge pin diameter. Chuck it in your drill, lube it up with something (I used lubriplate) and spin it in to the hinge. The reamer takes off any burrs or paint and allows the pins to glide in more easily, especially on a curve. On my wingtips I did each hinge half separately with the wingtips off, but the cowl pins would be better done with the cowl in place due to curvature. I didn’t need to do this on the firewall mounted cowl hinges because the pins are already smaller than the hinge installed in that location and they go in fairly easily. Numerous others have done the same thing before me. Jon Thocker turned me on to this trick in hinge fitting many years ago, and it works. I can remove my cowl in less than 5 minutes and that includes removing 12 screws (3 on each side of the spinner, 3 on each side of the cowl exhaust on the bottom). Putting the cowl back on takes slightly longer because of fitting the cowl on the nose area and being carefull about baffle seal fit. The pins go in as easily as they come out.

Hinge pins can’t be beat for appearance (my opinion only) and I would be happy to race someone on cowl removal/install with someone that uses camlocks. I’m not saying the hinges are better or faster, I just think it would be an educational exercise that many of us might benefit from. I would also be interested to know the outcome. I’m not anti-camlock. I used skybolts on my second RV (RV8), and they are very well made, look OK, and if installed correctly, work very well. I prefer the low cost and easier use (again, my opinion) of hinges. If anyone is interested in a little competition, lets say we set up a contest, say..... Oshkosh (Airventure) 2019 on Sunday late afternoon at the beginning of the beer exchange. We should have 2 examples of each design, and someone should video the event. Since this would compare camlocks to hinges, the other fasteners used should be removed before the shotgun starts, and on the install, the contest should end when these same cowl devices are installed (before any nose area or cowl bottom screws/camlocks are installed). I’ll concede, camlocks on the bottom would be quicker than screws, and not anybody (that I’ve heard of anyway) lately has used hinges on the bottom. I haven’t seen any camlocks on the nose area behind the spinner, although I don’t see anything wrong with that. So.... who’s in?? Can we have a contest to kick off the beer exchange??
 
I considered using nut plates affixed to the piano hinge. I hav a similar system in my 4 which I did not build. But, since mine is a slow build I decided to use sky bolts cam locks.
 
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