In need of guidance and advice

This post is mostly about me trying to avoid making any irreversible mistakes, and in avoiding re-work.

I know I can't plan/know everything in advance, but I am at least trying to get the wiring and hoses done, before I close up the floors, final wing skins, and fuselage tops. I am getting to that point in the plans, where things become vague, and if I just march forward per the book, I will end up having easy jobs become crazy retrofits.

I have open items that say "avoid doing these steps until as late as possible". In other areas, they describe things that aren't applicable to the plane I'm building. I am finding myself standing in the garage, endlessly planning things that are going to happen, and getting less and less work done.

I have most of the sub-schematics done, and I'm comfortable with what I have so far, but I haven't put everything all together and have a final review done yet.

So, I'm hoping someone can give me some advice on how to plan at this point, and maybe get ideas on the best way to go on some equipment, point out things I might be missing, etc.

There are three strong RV groups in the category of "not local, but close enough to draw other people away", located in San Diego, Ramona, and Chino, so it leaves my area a bit emptied out.

My local EAA chapter consists of already flying guys that just want to swap stories, and a few new guys looking for guidance but not getting much. I'm not giving up on that avenue, but I can't bank on getting anything soon. I do plan on being there for anyone else in the chapter who would like anything I might have to offer. But so far, nobody that would be willing to drop by and check up on me.

Also, so far, I have been unable to locate a Tech Councilor (the EAA list is full of people that have retired, and seems like it isn't being maintained). I recently got two leads on not local guys that are DAR and Tech Counselors (Brian Evans and Matt Hlavac) that I haven't follow up on yet. So I don't know if I can get them for other than a paid inspection yet.

So here is the background info:

Pilot:

• 13 year, 1200 hour glider pilot, soloed in power, and finishing my power license now.
• Then comes tail wheel, RV transition, then IFR.

Knowns:
Unknowns:

• Type of Fuel pump
• Type of Boost pump
• Type of voltage regulator
• Type of Fuel Totalizer (I have stock fuel senders, and would like to avoid a capacitive sender retrofit)
• Stick Grips (Infinity?)

What I have already read:

• The Sportplane Builder
• Tony Bingelis on Engines
• Firewall Forward
• AeroElectric Connection
• The VPX Manual (very good)

Questions:

• Order of operations: (Wiring, Plumbing, Floors, Top skins, Finish kit, Engine, Electronics) or some other order?
• How the **** do you pre-plan the firewall layout, without knowing everything (Equipment list, Engine and Engine Mount clearance, FWF tube and hose wiring, etc)?
• Do people usually buy everything at once, or as they go?
• Can I do an occasional roll or loop without inverted oil system, and fuel flop tube?
• Should I make the floors to be removable with nutplates? How often do you really need to pull them?
  
  And why the heck does Vans make some of the holes have nutplates, when you rivet the rest down?​
• What am I missing?

Best advice is to just follow the order in the plans. Check something off each day. The last thing you will do is put the wings on and interior in. The firewall forward kit comes with instructions for everything firewall forward. You'll need an engine hung to complete the cowling and finish kit. Other advice; have a professional build and wire your panel while you complete the finish kit and firewall forward stuff. Top skin after instrument panel install. Get used to the drive to Ramona, it is the only airport in SD county that you can fly off your phase one testing from.

I am under the impression you are trying to over plan things here. Follow the directions from Vans. Empennage, Wings or Fuselage, Finishing Kit, Avionics and Engine.

Unless you KNOW this will be somehow complete in the next year (I'd bet money now thats not going to happen), I would not make a decision on avionics, electric backbone, lights, etc. Technology is changing so rapidly. You will kick yourself if you go ahead and buy a Dynon skyview and 2 years later there is a better/newer Dynon product (BTW, I would seriously look at the G3X touch). Same is to be said for lights, starter, alternator, etc.

Additionally, once you have your engine, it is a lot easier to make some of your purchase decisions. For example, I didn't see your ignition plan (maybe I missed it). Mags, P Mags, electronic, or mixed. I chose the dual EFII setup. The EFII kit includes the fuel pumps, regulator, and injection. It also effects how you can measure your fuel consumption (as there is unburned fuel,it requires a return back to each tank).

Based on personal experience, if you order a bunch of stuff up front, you will end up returning a lot of it (and sometimes paying a restocking fee, and worst case they might not accept the return if it has been a long time since the purchase, Vans requires items to be returned within 2 years and charges a restocking fee). I'd recommend buying as much stuff together as required for the phase of the build. For example, when you are nearing avionics, buy all your avionics, wire, fuses, buses, ground bars, backshells, etc for the avionics install. When you are a couple months from firewall forward, order your engine, ignition, FF kit, starter, alternator, exhaust, prop, etc. Realize that oftentimes the engine and prop will have a 2 month lead time.

Right now, I would just concentrate on building the airframe iaw the Vans plans.

Happy building!

The fuselage will be going out shortly for internal cockpit powder coating or paint, so I have to remove anything that can't take 400 degree heat.

Do you really want to expose the fuselage to 400 degrees? I have to agree with others, go with the Vans flow. As you build there will be many changes on the way,, I would hold off on the avionics as long as possible.

Powder coating

Don't do that!

The fuselage structure can't take the heat. Don't powder coat it.

Dave

No, don't cook your plane. None of the 70 year old planes were cooked.

I'm very curious as to all the "don't powder coat" replies.

Here is a quote from another source:

I have a fair bit of experience with the effects of heat-treating on aluminum and unless the temperature of the metal exceeds ~525 ish (or you soak it in the mid to high 400's for a long time) there is no significant annealing that goes on. I work in a cylinder manufacturing plant as an engineer and I can assure you that a very long soak at a temperature in the high 400s has a negligible affect on tensile strength.

Click to expand...

I also saw references in Matt Dralle's RV-8 build, that he did similar.

Can any of you give me specifics on why you think it is a bad idea?

Warpage

As Matt powder coated his parts they were removable and have some "substance". If you were to powdercoat the interior fuselage as a whole you would warp the thinner skins. It wouldn't damage the aluminum structurally but would warp the flat panels more than a carnival mirror!

Anything over 250 degrees F with affect the heat treat of the aluminum! DO NOT DO IT!
Regardless what the "expert" said the aluminum heat treat will be affected. In fact it was a question on my IA renewal seminar.
This from 43 13 : b.
"Reheating at Temperatures Above Boiling Water.

Reheating of 2017 and 2024 alloys above 212° F tend to impair the original heat treatment. Therefore, reheating above 212° F, including the baking of primers, is not acceptable without subsequent complete and correct heat treatment."

That guy may know about heat treating engines but he is full of it regarding aluminum sheet.
To re heat treat to a T3 condition you have to get to 990 degrees F and then quench within 8 seconds. Most likely the fuselage will warp.
Also let's not forget that the rivets are a 2017 alloy and are treated to T4.

Ok, I'm convinced. Thanks for the feedback.

IFR

Don't get your IFR until youre flying your plane for a while. IFR is hard. For me it was like doing another masters degree. It was all consuming, more so if you are also working a 40-60hr week - which I wasn't, and it was still a big sandwich to eat. Its a lot more head work than stick work. And then after you get it, you really need to do something IFR every 90-ish days and even that is a dangerously rusty rate.

Someone on here noted that you can buy a lot of hotel and rental cars for the price of IFR gear in your plane (don't forget subscriptions blah blah). Its a very good point. For sure though, you couldn't get me to trade my hard earned IFR ticket for anything.

Absolutely, IFR comes well after I'm out of phase 1.

3 jobs in the process

FWIW I tried to have 3 different jobs on at any point in time so that if one hit a roadblock I could stop, order the parts and continue.

Now I did try and read ahead and order in advance also. The road block was in case I missed something or needed to get some advice.

This kept the speed up and the progress was good.

Also build as close as possible to home. That will also help.

I recently became an EAA Tech Counselor. I'm just up the hill in Ramona, so no problem scheduling a visit down in San Marcos. A lot of what you want to do systems-wise I did similarly in my RV-9A.

KRNM resources

As Derek noted, get used to the drive to Ramona: there are good resources there.

06 Dec is a party at Pacific Executive, one of the (3) FBOs;
13 Dec is a Toys for Tots event at Transient parking;
Sundays AMs there is generally an RV formation Flight team meeting at Chuck Hall (another FBO, with lots of smart, friendly RV folks.)

Each of these is an opportunity to meet RV builders (some repeat offenders) & pilots; you will get as much input as you can accept, or more, and will be able to sift through & make your own decisions.