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New GAMI no-lead fuel STC

NO

Do you need an STC for any other change you make? STC is a Supplemental Type Certificate, The RVs don't have a Type Certificate to be suplemented.
 
No STC needed for G100UL, nor any other fuel for experiment airplanes. In fact… STCs aren’t needed for anything in experimental aviation.

Not everyone knows this, and I wouldn’t be surprised if some education might be needed for ramp workers and other FBO personnel when you go to get your airplane fueled if-and-when G100 comes to an airport near you in the next couple of years.
 
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While experimental aircraft do not need an STC for unleaded fuel, you will likely need to update your POH and fuel labeling on/near the fuel caps.
 
While experimental aircraft do not need an STC for unleaded fuel, you will likely need to update your POH and fuel labeling on/near the fuel caps.

Yup. If-and-when.

I’m thinking something like “Avgas… 100 octane“ or similar.
 
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The data plate on my O-360 A1A says, "Min octane 91/96".
That's what the label next to my gas caps says.
 
While experimental aircraft do not need an STC for unleaded fuel, you will likely need to update your POH and fuel labeling on/near the fuel caps.

Just as a clarifying point, experimental aircraft are not required to have a POH either. Labels on fuel caps, yes.
 
Updating and printing a new POH for me is about a 2 minute MS Word exercise;).

As to gas caps, I guess more generic is better. I’m thinking “AVGAS 91 OCTANE MIN” ought to cover it.

Up North Engraving is apparently not engraving gas caps any more. I’ve looked over Bill’s…no online ordering or credit cards but he’ll supply new top-plates-only for $32 each. Who else does that engraving?
 
No STC needed for G100UL, nor any other fuel for experiment airplanes. In fact… STCs aren’t needed for anything in experimental aviation.

I hear ya, but have a hard time believing GAMI is just going to let all experimentals slide with no payment. The STC cost is how GAMI is recouping some of their development cost. One of the comments on the recent AVWEB article indicates FAA is requiring a list of all aircraft approved for the G100 fuel. I would assume that fuel will not be dispensed to an unapproved plane. Exactly how that would be implemented, I’m unsure, but seems like it could be done relatively easily.
 
I hear ya, but have a hard time believing GAMI is just going to let all experimentals slide with no payment. The STC cost is how GAMI is recouping some of their development cost. One of the comments on the recent AVWEB article indicates FAA is requiring a list of all aircraft approved for the G100 fuel. I would assume that fuel will not be dispensed to an unapproved plane. Exactly how that would be implemented, I’m unsure, but seems like it could be done relatively easily.

I’m confident that all GA piston-engine aircraft using G100UL will pay a premium at the pump that will include refining/blending, distribution, and development costs…certified and Experimental alike. A lot of that cost is for the STC itself and I’m inclined to doubt that GAMI will make us pay for that since we don’t need it. The rest of it…yeah, we’ll take it in the shorts for awhile as the blending and distribution pipeline ramps up.
 
Opinions are just that, until someone knows what GAMI is planning.

Why doesn't someone that hopes to use the fuel in an experimental, just call them up and ask?
 
The data plate on my O-360 A1A says, "Min octane 91/96".

Most Lycoming manuals state this. Why 2 min's RON and MON issue?
 
Why doesn't someone that hopes to use the fuel in an experimental, just call them up and ask?

I emailed GAMI yesterday about this. Here is their reply:

“Experimentals do not need an STC to use the fuel. Like any other STC’d product, you can just put it on. However, we would be happy to sell you fuel filler placards if you wanted them. “
Thanks,
Paul Smith

Cool. Another reason I’m glad I own an experimental. Now Just waiting for some G100UL to be available.
 
I emailed GAMI yesterday about this. Here is their reply:

“Experimentals do not need an STC to use the fuel. Like any other STC’d product, you can just put it on. However, we would be happy to sell you fuel filler placards if you wanted them. “
Thanks,
Paul Smith

Cool. Another reason I’m glad I own an experimental. Now Just waiting for some G100UL to be available.

Here are those placards as described in the GAMI's addition to the to the POH.

I read somewhere on their website that they're guessing 2023 will be logistics and ramp-up in 2024. AvFuel is managing distribution. It will be interesting to see at what rate G100UL trickles out to the small rural airports.

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It will be interesting to see at what rate G100UL trickles out to the small rural airports.

At every airport I land I inquire about their plan and timeline to comply with the EAGLE Initiative and begin offering an unleaded option and whether they are leaning toward GAMI G100UL, Swift UL94 or mogas. Other than only one airport manager they all looked at me as if I had lobsters crawling out of my ears. Totally unaware of the governmental plans to eliminate leaded fuels in aviation.

A few even laughed it off telling me they provide 100LL and they will always only provide 100LL (two even added that I should've purchased a "real" airplane).
 
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PEOPLE, PEOPLE, PEOPLE..........

Why are all you people insistent on adding non-required information on your filler cap placards? The regulations call for "Minimum Octane and Capacity"; Nothing more.

Regulations do NOT call for "lead content" or anything else.
 
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Why are all you people insistent on adding non-required information on your filler cap placards? The regulations call for "Minimum Octane and Capacity"; Nothing more.

Regulations do NOT call for "lead content" or anything else.

I think you’re misreading those posts, Mel.
 
I think you’re misreading those posts, Mel.

No, I'm not misreading posts. I know that this thread is about STC requirements.

I'm simply stating that if you label your filler caps "G100UL", for example, you are limiting yourself to that particular fuel brand. Now if "Swift Fuel" calls their's something else, you can't use it. Just like currently most people have labeled "100LL". They won't be able to use 100UL. If they had simply used "100", they can use any fuel with 100 octane, with or without lead.
 
Experimental airplanes aren’t beholden to the STC or GAMI’s “suggested” placard, as was clearly stated and nobody is suggesting that. Some of us, however, do need to re-engrave/re-placard because our current caps/placards say “100LL”. Personally, I plan to get new caps that say “AVGAS 91 OCTANE MIN” (see post #8).
 
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Experimental airplanes aren’t beholden to the STC or GAMI’s “suggested” placard, as was clearly stated and nobody is suggesting that. Some of us, however, do need to re-engrave/re-placard because our current caps/placards say “100LL”. Personally, I plan to get new caps that say “AVGAS 91 OCTANE MIN”.

And that's fine. However by adding the word "AVGAS", you are still restricting yourself from using "MOGAS". If you use "91 OCTANE MIN", you will have more options.
 
And that's fine. However by adding the word "AVGAS", you are still restricting yourself from using "MOGAS". If you use "91 OCTANE MIN", you have more options.

I have no intention ever of using MOGAS, so not a problem for me, but your point is well-taken.
 
No, I'm not misreading posts. I know that this thread is about STC requirements.

I'm simply stating that if you label your filler caps "G100UL", for example, you are limiting yourself to that particular fuel brand. Now if "Swift Fuel" calls their's something else, you can't use it. Just like currently most people have labeled "100LL". They won't be able to use 100UL. If they had simply used "100", they can use any fuel with 100 octane, with or without lead.

Completely agree. I especially do not like having a placard that has a particular brands patent number on it like it appears GAMI is selling. Very restrictive to me and pretty selfish by GAMI. I sure will not have a separate placard for ever new fuel that comes to market.
 
Completely agree. I especially do not like having a placard that has a particular brands patent number on it like it appears GAMI is selling. Very restrictive to me and pretty selfish by GAMI. I sure will not have a separate placard for ever new fuel that comes to market.

I didn’t get that they are recommending their placard for Experimental airplanes and certainly not requiring it….just making it available in case E-ABs wanted to give them some money and I assumed that was tongue-in-cheek. They acknowledged that Experimental airplane could do whatever they want as the STC had nothing to do with that aircraft category’.
 
I have no intention ever of using MOGAS, so not a problem for me, but your point is well-taken.

IMHO, that's a little myopic. Someday you might sell that RV-12 and the new owner will be clueless as to the truth of the fuel requirements only being 91 octane, and unleaded is acceptable.
 
IMHO, that's a little myopic. Someday you might sell that RV-12 and the new owner will be clueless as to the truth of the fuel requirements only being 91 octane, and unleaded is acceptable.

It's an RV-9A with IO-320. If the subsequent owner wants to use a non-Lycoming-approved fuel, he can engrave his gas caps and change the POH to his heart's content but Lycoming doesn't approve any 91 octane D4814 fuels nor any pump gas for that engine.
 
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It's an RV-9A with IO-320. If the subsequent owner wants to use a non-Lycoming-approved fuel, he can engrave his gas caps and change the POH to his heart's content but Lycoming doesn't approve any 91 octane D4814 fuels nor any pump gas for that engine.

You do realize this discussion is in the RV-12 forum and is specific to that plane?
 
Ah ****....apologies for horning in. I always just click on "new posts", sometimes don't notice which forum they're in.
 
Ah ****....apologies for horning in. I always just click on "new posts", sometimes don't notice which forum they're in.

Perhaps you'd consider deleting or editing your previous posts, before leading a bunch of RV-12 owners, present and future, down the wrong rabbit hole.
 
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