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Lightspeed failure

Scott Will

Scott Will

Well Known Member
Couldn't have made OSH anyway,,,

The last week I've experienced failure of my Lightspeed Plamsa III on my RV-7A IO-360. After taxi out and runup, the Lightspeed would completely fail when running just on it during the runup check. Completely obvious and not isolated to a single cylinder (all EGTs rose) and RPM dropped significantly...but I always switched back to bothe before it quit.

Taxi back and run-up in front of hangar... no problems! Like it was brand new. Pulled the cowl and inspected everything... all looked good. Put new plugs in and tried again. Similar results.

Well we finally pull the box and find a BNC connector with lots of charring and even some of the metal worn away. The male part of the connector was even worn with black on it. Almost looks like it was arcing. Kinda explains the intermittent results I was getting...taxiing probably knocked the connector in/out of position. Sending the box back to Klaus today.

Yeah, the box is mounted on the firewall but I did so only after hearing successful reports from others who've done the same. I think next time I need to put heatshrink or a protector for the connector on it.

Anyway, check the pics...

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%5C%5Cnatladmhqrfs04%5C032225%24%5CIMG_2324.JPG
 
Had the power supply in one of my two LSII+ boxes go out on me a few weeks ago. Klaus had me send both boxes back. Fixed the one and upgraded both with what appears to be new resistors.

Saw a Glasair II at Oshkosh where the builder had both his boxes on the engine side of the firewall and had hoses to vent cooler air into the open holes in the box ends visible in your pictures. Looked like a thoughtful idea to help with the heat build up although I did not see another hole to let the cool air out.
 
Since the install guide clearly states "The PLASMA CDI module should be mounted in a clean and dry place on the cold side of the firewall." you might consider changing the thread title. Finding a couple of folks like me that got away with not following the directions only means we got lucky. Klaus has been doing this a long long time. No doubt he has good reasons for wanting it cool and dry on the cold side of the firewall. I got away with it for a long time in my 6, looks like your an example of why its there.
best,
 
Scott Will said:
Well we finally pull the box and find a BNC connector with lots of charring and even some of the metal worn away. The male part of the connector was even worn with black on it. Almost looks like it was arcing. Kinda explains the intermittent results I was getting...taxiing probably knocked the connector in/out of position. Sending the box back to Klaus today.
Click to expand...

If you are going to leave it on the hot side of the firewall, you might want to check for strain relief for that cable. Possibly the vibration of the engine caused the connector to jiggle...
 
You'll notice that the connector shells are insulated from the chassis. That is because the cable shield carries a high current, low voltage signal which is used in the spark generation. That is why the cable shield should NEVER be grounded anywhere! I have my two units mounted to the upper-left (pilot side) of the firewall, but that is because ALL of the cooling air from the cylinders and oil cooler are ducted out so that there is no hot air impinging on the firewall. Even so, I have a very small inlet on the cowling which provides cooling air ducted to the four coils, the two ignition units, the oil separator, the fuel pump, and the gascolator. You who have your oil-cooler mounted on the rear baffling with no outlet duct are dumping a LOT of hot air onto the firewall! In my friend's Lancair with a typical baffle set-up I experienced vapor-lock several times on hot airports, but never once with my system. Keep your electronics cool to extend their life!
 
Another LSE failure mode...

I have another recent LSE failure story. The single LSE Plasma-III
box on my IO-540 (RV-10) failed in flight twice in hot weather last
month. After landing and cooling, the box would operate normally.

Sent it back to Klaus who reported that my box contained over-temp
sensors that could cause shut-down. Klaus admitted that he has
stopped using those sensors because of repeated problems,
and removed them from my box. The problem seems especially
acute on 6-cylinder Plasma-III boxes. If you have one these
units you might want to contact him to determine if your box
has these sensors!

Klaus also now recommends cooling air flow fthrough a 3/8" port
on the side of the box. My box had the port, but the older
installation instructions I received with it did not mention
any requirement for cooling air. I have it now!
(The latest instructions on the LSE web site do discuss
cooling air requirements.)

A further protection is to add short stand-off bushings
to separate the LSE base plate from the stainless firewall.
Pressing them together in close contact facilitates effective
conduction of heat from the hot forward side to the LSE
base plate; and you don't want that.

After these mods we flew from the west coast to OSH and
back through some very hot conditions with no issues.

- Dan Benua
RV-10 N755SB
 
I had dual lightspeed ignition on my Long EZ and had 3 catastrophic failures in the first 10 hrs of operation of my aircraft. I had one Plasma I and one Plasma III. Failure mode was mechanical due to vibration. No other electronic component, mounted on the same node (both cert box and a engine monitor signal interface box) have failed. No other avionic or electric component or system has expereicned vibration induced failure in 200 hours of operations. After inspection of the LSE boxes by myself and other Boeing mechanical and avionic engineers with over 50 years combined experience we found the following: 1. The PCB moves inside the enclosure (translates in all axes). There is no retention other than loose side rails. The packaging is not of a sufficient standard for any vibration environment (all possible applications). 2. The transistors mounted from the PCB to the enclosure will fail (and did twice). 3. The PCB component legs will fail. (A voltage regulator did fail).

I have modified my Plamsa III by soft wiring and strain releiving the transistors and have potted all components. I have mounted the unit on velcro inside the cockpit. Yes, some critical components are velcro mounted even in the cert world. I have screwed the PCB to the encolsure. I have added a mag and removed the Plasma I.

I will not fly in an aircraft with dual plasma ignition under ANY circumstances. If modded per above the lightspeed ignition systems are exceptionally good performers.
 
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I finished mounting my plasmaIII about a week ago and went with the location just to the rear of the firewall on the pilot side. After reading this on vibration, I think I'm going to mount it with some rubber mounting as well. My thoughts on the failure in this thread may be more because of movement of the wire going to the box. When you mounted the box on the other side of the firewall you also end up mounting the wire stationary at the firewall (on the box)and the other end goes to the baffle. In other words the wire, the way you set it up, correct me if I'm wrong, goes through the baffle at the rear of the engine and right to the box? If so than the wire could have been moving or vibrating, thus causing intermittant connection. just a thought. Another thought on the situation could be just a bad connection when the wire and the connector was put together at the factory.
 
Wayne built one of the most beautiful and finely crafted composite airplanes in the world. Accusing him of hacking up anything is a huge mistake. If I didn't have a Lightspeed II, which appears not to need modifying, I would be asking him for instructions on modifying mine as he did to yours. You are probably missing out on a nice piece of equipment. :rolleyes:
I have mounted my box inside the headrest on small rubber bumpers to help with vibration and it has never given me any trouble. I have had to remove and clean the 9 pin connector to the Hall Effect module and they have since upgraded that connector. I'll do all connections at Conditionals to avoid surprises.
 
Another Lightspeed Failure

Well my 9 pin connector didn't make it 30 hours before it failed again. So it's obviously a bad part and of course I'm told I have to buy the proper component that should have been used in the first place! And the price went up since I was quoted three weeks ago. At least the P-mag guys are taking care of their customers and fixing their issues. No such luck at Lightspeed. Dig out the checkbook. That's three failures in less than 200 hours......:mad: Consider that when you are shopping for ignition, or insist on two of them!
 
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what connector failed?

The one on the box or the one on the hall effect unit? I have a LS plasma II mounted behind the firewall with a hall effect pick up on my RV-7A. I have a little over 200 hr's on it and it has been flawless in it's operation. I read the previous posts and it's not clear to me which connector is the culprit.
 
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The connector to the hall effect cover. He says he figured out the ones he was using were bad and upgraded them without telling anyone. Now he wants $135 for a new cover. Was $125 a couple weeks ago..... Love that customer service.
Glad yours is holding up. If you have the newer components you may be OK. If not, some day you will be doing a run up and have 2 cylinders missing. Be ready to pull that plug, clean it and replace it. This only took me 6 hours in 100 degree sun on a ramp 1000 miles from home to find out. Then it failed again 25 hours later fortunatly at home. Really poor component.
 
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<<the cable shield carries a high current, low voltage signal which is used in the spark generation.>>

....and if the connectors at either end are even the slightest bit loose, they will arc/burn and that coil won't fire. Like Paul says, lots of electrons but not much push. You need very good mating quality at the BNC, quality (read "tight") spades on the coil end, and no relative motion. Been there, done that.
 
Lightspeed Customer Support

Just received this from Klaus after I agreed to pay him for the component that should have been used in the first place:

I regret that you have continued problems with your system/installation. I can assure you that we are doing the best we can in terms of engineering, design and cost.
This is apparently not good enough for you, so I would prefer you use a magneto or some other ignition source.


Regards,
Klaus Savier
Light Speed Engineering, LLC
P.O. Box 549
416 E. Santa Maria St., #15
Santa Paula, CA 93060 USA
[email protected]
Tel: (805) 933-3299 Fax: (805) 525-0199

Buy this stuff at your own risk......
 
P-Mag or E-Mag

Now that Lightspeed has abandoned my installation I'm researching P-Mag. With one Slick remaining is there a compelling reason to use the built in alternator feature of the P-version vs. the E-version without it?
Thanks.
 
Klaus has been around for a long time doing his thing with lots of satisfied customers, sounds like the communication channels got scrambled in this case.

Before moving on to e-mag, check out
http://www.electroair.net/technical.html.

I had their stone simple system in the Cozy and it worked fine except the mag hole driven timing sensor failed one time. If I were doing either system, I would go with the crank sensor as it is about as bullet proof as anything can be.

Beyond all that, have you read the Cafe report "Ignition Dynamics I-II-III"? Lots of good information there on mags and electronic ignition and more graphs than I can digest in a week.
http://cafefoundation.org/v2/research_reports.php

For now I am launching with 2 mags. I may opt for one electronic system later but there will always to a one trusty mag to get me home.
 
That is too bad

RVadmirer said:
Now that Lightspeed has abandoned my installation I'm researching P-Mag. With one Slick remaining is there a compelling reason to use the built in alternator feature of the P-version vs. the E-version without it?
Thanks.
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That is too bad the Lightspeed is a very good system, but it is experimental. Many have used them with out problem. Keep in mind lightspeed, E-mag, Electroair, Unison's LASAR and even good old regular Mags have problems from time to time. (that is why we have two and why auto conversion folks flying with one ignition should think about that.)

Electroair is a worth a look. I wish they where cheaper. The original guy Jeff Rose, was very nice to talk to. The new Guy running the company is a super good communicator, and the GEN II version (which is very different from the original) looks like it was all done very well, making all the right improvements.

Regardless there are pros and cons. Not to bash any one, E-mag has had their share of connector problems. I have talked to Klaus and I like him, but he is blunt. All the best.

Go with the E-mag or P-mag, that would be my second choice after the lightspeed. I am sure you will like it. You can stuff another magneto in but buying ONE out right.........not sure if that will not cost you more than an electronic ignition. EI is smoother and does give you a few percent better fuel efficiency. That was not a big deal at $1.90 a gal, but 4% on $5 x 8/hr is $1.60. 150 hours of flying/year, that's over $200. In a few years a EI could pay for it self while giving better starts and smoother idle.
 
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RVadmirer said:
Now that Lightspeed has abandoned my installation I'm researching P-Mag. With one Slick remaining is there a compelling reason to use the built in alternator feature of the P-version vs. the E-version without it?
Thanks.
Click to expand...

I have been running lightspeed since day one, started with a single system with the mag module and have since converted to dual LSI with crank mounted sensor. I did have a few oil leak issues with the module which convinced me to go with the crank sensor instead at which time I converted to dual LSI system. Other than the oil leak I had one problem with one of the LSII boxes that would only fail in the airplane and not on Klaus's test bench. We shipped this one back and forth and I finally told him I had enough and I don't want it back till he can find the problem. He tinkered with it but could not get it fixed so we had some "interesting" discussion on how to go about remeding the situation. His first answer was I needed to buy a new box (at a small discount) because he could not fix the old one, I obviously was not happy with this answer so we had some lively debates on the phone. In the end he did me right and we agreed on a fair price for another box. Had I decided to go "head to head" with him rather than work with him, I think the outcome would have been much different, and we both would have lost.

Klaus is guy just like you and me, he has worked hard to develop and market a good product, is it perfect... nope, can I expect to never have a problem... nope, do I want him as a friend and partner if I need him... yep! I give him tons of Kudo's for trying to make a living in the tough world of experimental aviation and I don't mind supporting his efforts to make a living at it (I'm jealous really!).

Owning and maintaining an airplane is expensive, time consuming and at times frustrating... but definately worth the effort. We should try to support and make friends with our suppliers that cator to the experimental market and understand that nothing in this world is perfect :D

If you ask me you made a mistake by not forking over the measly $125 bucks or just convert to the crank sensor and move on. IMO LSI makes the best and most reliable electronic ignition out there.
 
I'm a little confused here, maybe I need to go over all the threads on this one. But here is the problem I have, I thought this started out with a post with a problem and picture of the control box with corrosion on one of the exit leads for the coil. It was also stated that the installation was on the firewall, which the instruction say NOT to do. I make a statement that a bad connection is possible. Now bad connections are caused from moisture and or loose connections, vibration being a factor as well. No comment was made twards this. Now I read that you need something different, I think, a sensor(the hall effect). Not the part that I thought had failed.

Now I also see post for having fights with Klaus. I didn't think that is what this forum is for, fights. So now I have to say, what is going on. You install the unit outside of recommendations, than the real culprit is twards the hall effect sensor, not the main box. I'm confused.

I think all critical wiring should also have dielectric grease put on the connections, did you use that. Are we coming out now and saying that the hall effect sensor is a no no?
 
gmcjetpilot said:
...Regardless there are pros and cons. Not to bash any one, E-mag has had their share of connector problems. I have talked to Klaus and I like him, but he is blunt. All the best...
Click to expand...
George, you keep talking about their connector problems and in 190+ hours over one year with two P-mags, I haven't had a single problem related to the connector. In talking with Emag Air the trick is to secure the wire tightly in the provided adel clamp so the wires can't move and break. Here is a picture of what I'm talking about.

RVadmirer said:
Now that Lightspeed has abandoned my installation I'm researching P-Mag. With one Slick remaining is there a compelling reason to use the built in alternator feature of the P-version vs. the E-version without it?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Not to take thake this thread down a Lightspeed vs. E/P-mag path...

The choice is yours. Should you replace your slick with a P-mag, you can keep the Lightspeed in place and still get home, should one fail. Knowing you want to replace the Lightspeed, go with the P-mag. The electronics are the same, the only difference is the P-mag can power itself, should you have an electrical problem. The installation is about the same, with the P-mag requiring a test switch on the power feed.
 
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Clear the COnfusion

George: Thank you for your always detailed and thoughtful help and advice. I appreciate you taking the time to give it.

Walt: I agreed to pay his price but pointed out that I wasn't happy about it. Here are the facts; he used to use cheap connectors on the hall effect cover and probably to the igition box too. Mine, after 170 hours (which was my second Lightspeed failure in that time frame) and after 6 hours of sweating in the sun on a ramp in Iowa troubleshooting the system, pulled that plug, cleaned it and put it back, solving the problem. When I talked to him about it at Oshlosh he says "oh we started using better components and that problem went away and I'll be glad to sell you the right connector." I'm glad $135 (his price went up $10 in two weeks) is measily to you, it's not to me. What's most dissappointing is that he can be as rude and blunt as he wants but when you call him on it - he screws you. I'm glad you had better results. But the builders around me here (7 RVs, 1 Cozy , 1 Lancair and 2 Glassairs) are all very interested in this experience and I believe it should be made available for others to make up their own minds on the type of organization they want to do business with.

Steve: See above, my issue is a cheap D-connector that now has now failed twice in 25 hours and put several people in very inconvenient situations besides me due to scheduling etc. But to answer your question most of the private mail I've gotten has all said to either toss the whole thing and go with better quality brands though possibly less performance by miniscule amounts or at least to switch over to the crank sensor. All say to avoid the Hall Effect if that helps your decision. But since Klaus won't sell me anything that's not going to happen. Don't tick him off or he will just abandon you and you are out the thousand plus dollars you gave him.

Bill: I'm keeping the Slick so I assumed a non P type E-Mag would be proper. I don't have that backup now on the LS EI so could really use the savings I see in priceing between the P and the E-mags.

Naturally if anybody wants an LS II+, with Hall Effect and want to pay LS for the connectors that should have been used in the first place mine will be available soon......
 
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What is the actual problem with the connector? Is it the male one at the end of the cable that attaches to the sensor module, or is it the one that is the female portion of the sensor? I, too, have one of these on my RV-7A. I only have 70 hours on it, but the seal within the hall effect appears to be leaking.
I had the direct crank sensor on my 10, and it worked flawlessly. I thought the hall effect would be quicker to get completed, but I am now wondering about my decision.
Vic
 
Vic,
The connectors used about 2 years ago were gold plated but it was very thin. I don't know if it is corrosion or what (I live in a dry climate but we do have winter fog), but I was told to pull it apart, clean it and plug it in and out a few times before tightening up the screws. That solved the problem for 25 hours. I figured I'd just clean it at each conditional. Not something that should have to be added to a checklist but for $135 I can spend 15 minutes a year for awhile. However, at a runup recently when people were waiting for me as a marine layer was temporarily receded I had the second failure. I went through most of the troubleshooting because I didn't think it would be the same thing so soon - silly me. If you have the newer ones they went to a more appropriate product with heavier plating, if computer connectors can be considered appropriate for aircraft applications under the cowlings. And this is supposed to have fixed "most" of the problems with them. As I said before, those with a lot of LS experience say the crank sensor is best. I already have one on a new engine built for my plane but it's coming off and going on sale too. :rolleyes:
 
If the price is right, I'll take that LSE off your hands.. I don't need/want the hall effect as I have the crank sensor, though.. (and wouldn't want it any other way..) :)
 
So, if Radomir takes the ignition, and you are left with the crank sensor, and I can get it to connect to the same wiring as the hall effect, then I will take that off of your hands.

Vic
 
vic syracuse said:
So, if Radomir takes the ignition, and you are left with the crank sensor, and I can get it to connect to the same wiring as the hall effect, then I will take that off of your hands.

Vic
Click to expand...

If you're going to install the crank sensor it's best just to install the complete harness back to the box, the time you spend cutting and installing a new connector you could just route the whole thing and be done with it, you'll also have one less failure point.
 
I sealed up all of the firewall penetrations, so I would just as soon put a high grade connector on the engine side of the firewall. I have one mag and one LSE, so hopefully they wouldn't both fail at the same time. At least, that is my thinking. :)

Vic
 
RVadmirer said:
George: Thank you for your always detailed and thoughtful help and advice. I appreciate you taking the time to give it.

Walt: I agreed to pay his price but pointed out that I wasn't happy about it. Here are the facts; he used to use cheap connectors on the hall effect cover and probably to the igition box too. Mine, after 170 hours (which was my second Lightspeed failure in that time frame) and after 6 hours of sweating in the sun on a ramp in Iowa troubleshooting the system, pulled that plug, cleaned it and put it back, solving the problem. When I talked to him about it at Oshlosh he says "oh we started using better components and that problem went away and I'll be glad to sell you the right connector." I'm glad $135 (his price went up $10 in two weeks) is measily to you, it's not to me. What's most dissappointing is that he can be as rude and blunt as he wants but when you call him on it - he screws you. I'm glad you had better results. But the builders around me here (7 RVs, 1 Cozy , 1 Lancair and 2 Glassairs) are all very interested in this experience and I believe it should be made available for others to make up their own minds on the type of organization they want to do business with.

Naturally if anybody wants an LS II+, with Hall Effect and want to pay LS for the connectors that should have been used in the first place mine will be available soon......
Click to expand...

I understand your frustration but this just sounds like a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water. I'm not trying to be rude but really, $135 is chump change compared to what we have invested in these planes :cool:

But I am also the kind of guy that changes parts before they wear out, I change the oil before it needs it, pull the cowl to look for problems if I'm bored, switched from carb to FI because I wanted to save $4.50/hr :)confused:), installed a 496 cause I wanted to be safer traveling with onboard weather... anyway you get the idea. So yes in the big picture $135 is "measly", heck it don't even fill the gas tank anymore :eek:

And just for the record I'm a workin stiff with 3 kids, 2 in college and a wife that works full time to help support it all so I ain't rollin in dough... but when it comes to the airplane, she gets nothing but the best parts and the best maintenance possible, in return I expect she'll never let me down :D
 
And Walt....

....you must have missed my point, I agreed to pay the "chump change" and got blown off by this guy you are impressed with because I told him I was dissappointed in that program. 10% of the cost of his unit for a connector he should have installed in the first place, 10%! That is just wrong.

Some people just feel differently about service and business. I see people all the time re-electing crooks like Rostenkowski in Illinois after he ripped them blind and buying junk from China when they use and abuse child labor and shoot people that don't like it. I just feel differently. I have purchased several thousand dollars worth of components from people on this forum with no problems. I have had good work done on my plane but when it wasn't good I said something about it. You've been lucky Walt, and that is wonderful. Many have been or they wouldn't be able to sell anything. But those of us, and there are quite a few, that have had bad results, and suffered the insulting conversations with Lightspeed know that the product has had it's problems, many of which are still flying and I'm reporting my experience for the collective information pool. Nothing more - nothing less.

I give everyone I deal with my very best in fairness and honesty. What I got from Lightspeed was snotty arrogance and a bad product. If I save one person the grief I've gone through here my original post was worth it. That was the what I felt important to make available to those that have been so much help to me.

And contrary to your possible insinuation, I take excellent care of my plane too and have flown it across the country twice. Nothing on it is certified and the only times I've been stranded and had to cancel a flight was three Lighspeed Engineering Ignition problems. Wasting money isn't anything I plan to start doing anytime soon. $135 will buy me a lot of fuel when it isn't wasted on replacing something that should NEVER have been sold in the first place to be used in an airplane and under the cowlings. You're welcome to do as you please, and as a moderator I'm sure you will... :rolleyes:

But thanks for your opinions, I appreciate your time but not the advertisement for Lightspeed and their poor business practices and lack of support. That amount of money should be a pittance to a company like that and had it been my mistake I would have sent the replacement with an apology, as I have when my product wasn't up to snuff. I hear from others that their competition also does so on a regular basis! I'm taking that "chump change" and putting it in the tanks to go to Reno this morning (IF my ignition works!). See you Monday. Happy flying all!
 
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RVadmirer said:
....you must have missed my point, I agreed to pay the "chump change" and got blown off by this guy you are impressed with because I told him I was dissappointed in that program. 10% of the cost of his unit for a connector he should have installed in the first place, 10%! That is just wrong.
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How much more would you be willing to pay when you purchased the EI system so that the vendor could have money on hand to give free upgrades for existing users? Or, is the vendor supposed to take a loss to cover free upgrades?

There are many, many satisfied Lightspeed EI users, so I doubt there are any major issues with build quality.
 
I keep saying what?

N941WR said:
George, you keep talking about their connector problems and in 190+ hours over one year with two P-mags, I haven't had a single problem related to the connector. In talking with Emag Air the trick is to secure the wire tightly in the provided adel clamp so the wires can't move and break. Here is a picture of what I'm talking about.
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I don't know why you're picking on me or what you are talking about, did I say something?

I'm aware of a lot more issues/incidence with the E-mag connector than you are apparently. Is it possible I know something you don't? :D

I understand the adel clamp helps to shore-up and secure the connections for greater reliability, but you're making my point for me, it needs special attention installation to provide a good reliable connection. (Yes, so do other systems including Lightspeed, peace.) That clamp may not totally solve the problem. If you can grab any wire between connector and clamp and move it , trust me it will move when the engine is shaking.

Looking at your picture real careful, a critical eye, look at the jumper, it's sitting up with no strain relief or support. What do you think vibration will do with that. There is also some relative movement between clamp and terminal strip still possible. Again it would not meet a military vibration spec test. Some folks "POT" their connections to provide that strain/vibration support. Apologies for the unsolicited advice, 190 hours may be fine but 1900 hours not so fine.


Many early E-mag installations also didn't use a clamp. Many still don't have them installed. The terminal strip is marginal to unacceptable with out the clamp. Many fly that way. Sorry I meant no offense, just opinion. Clearly you are more than satisfied.

I do hope future E-mag models are redesigned with a better connector. In addition to connections there have been some internal E-mag deaths. Again no bashing, just fact. Buyer beware. I'm not saying E-mag is better or worse than any other brand. I just want folks to be aware they're experimental and are installation dependant.

I have some experience with 3 different brands of EI. I like the Light-Speed overall for features and performance, E-mag a close second due to compact form, fit & function, save for the connection strip I don't care for. Again no offense just preference from my experience. This info is free and its worth every penny y'all paid for it .....:D (E/P-mag is mighty fine)
 
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P-MAg now...

George,
I know this was a Lightspeed thread and has morphed so I'll note here that the canard world had a great write up this morning on multiple failures of the magnet mounting on and O-360 resulting in another SB this week that continues to be designed by Electrical Engineers instead of a competent Mechanical Engineer (I'm told). Anyone interested in the complete write up write me off forum or visit the Cozy mail list or the Yahoo canard forum. I was close to ordering one but this changed my mind. We are talking MULTIPLE failures of the same component in one trip with several different units. At least they stood behind their product and stepped up to the plate, unlike Lightspeed..... :mad:
 
I HAVE THE BEST...........

RVadmirer said:
George,
I know this was a Lightspeed thread and has morphed so I'll note here that the canard world had a great write up this morning on multiple failures of the magnet mounting on and O-360 resulting in another SB this week that continues to be designed by Electrical Engineers instead of a competent Mechanical Engineer (I'm told). Anyone interested in the complete write up write me off forum or visit the Cozy mail list or the Yahoo canard forum. I was close to ordering one but this changed my mind. We are talking MULTIPLE failures of the same component in one trip with several different units. At least they stood behind their product and stepped up to the plate, unlike Lightspeed..... :mad:
Click to expand...

If you are looking for the BEST LIGHTSPEED, I have it!!

This unit is a PLASMA I. When I purchased it, the seller said it had 10 hours since new. When I questioned the condition after it arrived, the seller said "It was rebuilt and improved by Boeing mechanical and avionic engineers with over 50 years combined experience." This unit was used in a FIBERGLASS aircraft for only 10 hours before it was removed to install a MAG!!

Everything that was sent to me by this engineer, is still in the box just as UPS delivered it to me.

YOURS FOR ONLY $600.00...............
 
I've got dual LightSpeed Plasma II+ on my machine, haven't had any problems whatsoever (might be because I haven't fired it up yet either ;)). Naturally this thread got my attention so I flicked Klaus an email for his perspective.

He replied within 24 hours with "Not to worry, there are almost 5000 Light Speed CDI systems out in the field, some over 20 years old! There are no issues currently with the Plasma CDI system when installed per the instructions...If there is an issue, we will have a service bulletin on our website and if the Warranty information was returned to us, we will also contact you directly."

True, it might be sales-speak, but I'm not overly concerned right now....
 
gasman said:
If you are looking for the BEST LIGHTSPEED, I have it!!

This unit is a PLASMA I. When I purchased it, the seller said it had 10 hours since new. When I questioned the condition after it arrived, the seller said "It was rebuilt and improved by Boeing mechanical and avionic engineers with over 50 years combined experience." This unit was used in a FIBERGLASS aircraft for only 10 hours before it was removed to install a MAG!!

Everything that was sent to me by this engineer, is still in the box just as UPS delivered it to me.

YOURS FOR ONLY $600.00...............
Click to expand...


Yes, it's an exceptional unit following the ruggedisation modifications AS APPROVED BY LIGHTSPEED ENGINEERING. Please do not hesitate to contact me directly for an explanation of these modifications. I still have the Plasma III in place on the aircraft (it was dual lightspeed) with the same ruggedisation modifications. Two different ignition systems will provide greater redundancy as the failure modes are different. I had dual electrical systems as well, but an electrical failure on a lightspeed cannot necessarily rememdied by a 2nd battery, or any number of batteries for that matter. . .

I believe this unit has had the Hall Effect Module adjusted. A NOTE ABOUT HALL EFFECT MODULES: I also have a note from Klaus that the Hall Effect module was adjusted to a gap of 0.030" on 24/06/2004. That's 15 days after the first flight of my aircraft when the Lightspeed unit was brand new... It had a couple of hours on it when the transistor legs first failed PRIOR to the ruggedisation. Picture available on request (taken by Lightspeed). Both my Plasma I and III had this failure. It's not about where it can or cannot be mounted, it should be able to be mounted ANYWHERE on an aircraft where fluids and temperatures are within spec allowables.

I fly with many of Klaus Savier's modifications on my Long EZ. I also use his wheelpants, propeller and spinner. He is a wonderful engineer and I have benefited greatly from his flight testing! The only complaint I have about Lighspeed ignitions (ONLY the Plasma I and III, NOT the II) is the packaging. That's an avionics term for the way the unit is (or was, as I haen't seen a 2008 version) mechanically encapsulated and fastened. Paul Lipps and Klaus may have corrected this now, which would result in a wonderful unit. Why put a screw hole in a PCB and not put a fastener through it into the enclosure?! It's nuts!
 
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My experince with Lightspeed

I have ~200 hrs on a Plasma II Lightspeed on a RV-7A with a Mag on the left. I am using a Hall effect for pick up and even though I haven't had any problems I became concerned when reading the comments re: oil leaks, So I emailed Klaus and expressed my concerns and asked about upgrading to the crank sensor. Here is his reply:

"There are over 1300 Hall effect Modules in service, beginning in !998. I am replacing 2 or 3 seals a year. That is quite good! Since the oldest ones are having the least problems, I suspect that crank case pressure has some influence. Since it is never more than a nuisance leak and because the function is not effected by oil, should there ever be a problem, I would leave it alone."

My Lightspeed box is installed in the cockpit behind the panel and wired with two toggle switches for the LS and Mag. No key switch,
I am going to leave it as is and stick with the hall effect. I have always had good response to my questions from Lightspeed, so I would expect the turnaround time if a repair is needed, would be quick.

I am pleased with the performance of the ignition system.

YMMV
 
allbee said:
Installation is very important, you can take a unit with the very best connectors ever made and have them fail if you don't install correctly. When you have a connector that goes directly from the engine to a nonmoving part or firewall in this case. You will have problems with the connector. You must secure the wire from the connector at the engine first, that way there will be NO vibration issue at the connector, than have a nice loop in the wire to the firewall to absorb the movement. You need also to put dielectric grease on the connector to keep out moisture and prevent arcing.
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I have both a crank trigger and a plug-in module. The plug-in module was first used on my friend's plane when I was part owner, and it had about 500 hours on it when it was removed for installation on my plane. I have since put close to another 400 hours on it. I made the circuit board for the crank trigger and I used a 9 pin sub-D connector on it; it also has about 400 hours. I've never had a connector problem with either of these, and they are the older connectors with less plating. I'm starting to wonder if there is a different issue at work here. When you have gold contacts, there should never be the necessity for cleaning; gold is used since it doesn't corrode in a normal atmosphere, and provides a low-resistance contact and is very good for millivolt-level signals. Could it be that something else is causing this connector problem? I'm wondering about charging vapors from a vented battery on the firewall, or oil mist, or something along that line. I like your idea of the grease around the connector; that seems to be de rigueur on cars anymore! 'Anyone have any further speculation, hypothesis, or conjecture?
 
Taken Apart

I have the whole thing off the plane now and had an electrical guru look it over. Seems to be a really cheap connector. Doesn't seem to have any coatings on it. Will replace it before selling the whole system to some other "believer" that wants to fool with it. :rolleyes:
 
RVadmirer said:
Wayne built one of the most beautiful and finely crafted composite airplanes in the world. Accusing him of hacking up anything is a huge mistake. If I didn't have a Lightspeed II, which appears not to need modifying, I would be asking him for instructions on modifying mine as he did to yours. You are probably missing out on a nice piece of equipment. :rolleyes:
I have mounted my box inside the headrest on small rubber bumpers to help with vibration and it has never given me any trouble. I have had to remove and clean the 9 pin connector to the Hall Effect module and they have since upgraded that connector. I'll do all connections at Conditionals to avoid surprises.
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oh well...................
 
Transient Plasma I failures

I have a Bendix mag and a Plasma I on an O-320 in an RV-4. When doing a mag check about 6 months ago, the engine stopped firing completely when I shut off the mag, indicating that the Plasma I had failed.

I taxied back to the hangar and shut down to look at the wiring and make sure that the Plasma I had power. Then I restarted and the same thing happened.

I called Klaus, and he suggested checking the current draw and one of the logic voltages on the unit, which I did the next day. They seemed fine, so I fired up the engine and the Plasma I was working again.

I opened the unit up and didn't see any obvious loose wires or cracks in the PCB. I sent it back to Klaus and he looked at it and ran it on his test bench for a couple of hours, with no problems. He suggested maybe a dirty contact on one of the connectors, so I cleaned them.

I reinstalled it and I've been flying with no problems until a few days ago, when it happened again. Since I was far from home, I just shut down in the run-up area, turned off the master for about 30 seconds, then started back up and the problem was gone. I got back home without any trouble, checking the Plasma I every 10 minutes or so by switching it off and confirming that the RPM dropped when running on the mag alone.

Any suggestions on how I can troubleshoot this? Since all cylinders stop firing, I assume that rules out a problem with the Hall-effect sensors or the wiring to the ignition coils.
 
Allan said:
Any suggestions on how I can troubleshoot this? Since all cylinders stop firing, I assume that rules out a problem with the Hall-effect sensors or the wiring to the ignition coils.
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Since each of the coils only powers half the engine, I'd look very carefully at the hall effect wiring. Do you have the front mounted hall effect sensor? If so, then you also might want to carefully check that PCB - but getting access would be tricky with prop and baffles in place. Also check the wiring for heat damage - I've seen reports of folks having that insulation melt where it comes close to the exhaust.
 
There are two separate Hall-effect sensors, mounted 180 degrees apart, with each one controlling the timing to two cylinders. So both would have to fail for the engine to stop firing completely. That's why I didn't think they could be the problem.
 
Ring up another. That's 4 local failures. I recently helped my good friend replace his 2 year old LSE Plasma-III box on his IO-540 F1-Rocket. He sent the firewall mounted module back and was informed that it was unrepairable. Huh? That's hard to believe. But, no more information was given. Just, "you need to purchase a new one".

The failure mode was quite odd. It would backfire, pop, shake and carry on at idle. As if the idle timing was uncontrolled and all over the place. (conventional mag ran fine). As the RPM's increased, the engine ran perfectly, with no faults.

The new module fixed the problem.
 
cujet said:
I recently helped my good friend replace his 2 year old LSE Plasma-III box on his IO-540 F1-Rocket. He sent the firewall mounted module back and was informed that it was unrepairable.
Click to expand...

These units (like all electronics) do best mounted in a cool area, firewall mounting is not recommended due to the high heat environment. This is especially true of the hotter running 6 cyl PIII module.
 
Walt said:
These units (like all electronics) do best mounted in a cool area, firewall mounting is not recommended due to the high heat environment. This is especially true of the hotter running 6 cyl PIII module.
Click to expand...

True, unless you provide some means for heat extraction. My two PIs are mounted on the firewall, but I have no hot air around the firewall since all of my engine and oil cooling air is ducted in and out; none of it flows inside the cowling. But I have a small 1/2" X 1" auxiliary intake that supplies cooling air to the four ignition coils, the gascolator, the engine-driven fuel pump, the oil separator on the breather, and to the two ignitions. So far I have had no heat-related ignition problems, and no vapor lock in really high temps, and the oil separator is flawless!
 
Lightspeed Plasma II+ failure and fix

A couple of weeks ago, I hopped into the plane to go flying. When I was doing my run-up and flipped off the left mag, the engine ran really roughly. Normally there is almost no RPM drop when running on just the LSE, so I taxied back and pulled the cowling.

After several days of troubleshooting, I contacted Klaus. After reading some of the comments from others here on VAF I was a little concerned, but for no good reason. He patiently walked me through various steps to troubleshoot the failure.

In the end, after confirming that the spark plugs had probably lived their lives fully (145 hours on the original plugs -- the center electrodes were pretty worn) and buying new IK-27s, the coils both fired OK, it was determined that something had failed in the brain box. If not that, then it would have been something with the crank sensor.

I shipped the box back to LSE and got a call the same day it arrived informing me that, indeed, something was wrong with one side. Although my Plasma II+ only had 145 hours on it, it was also built in '04. So, for a nominal fee, they did all of the hardware upgrades needed as well as replaced whatever was defective.

I plugged in the 15-pin connector, inserted the MP hose and reattached it to the firewall (yes, the COLD side). Pushed Smokey outside and he fired right up!

I learned a couple of things from this:

1) Klaus was a pleasure to work with and was quite willing to take time to help me fix the problem

and

2) I now know to check/re-gap/replace the spark plugs more regularly. I've NEVER had to replace spark plugs in any car I've owned, so I guess I just expected them to work just as reliably in an airplane engine. Guess not.

Kudos to Klaus at LSE on a great product and great customer support!
 
The only thing I ever had to fix was cheap Coax connectors going from the coils to "the box" on the hot side of a customers RV-6a. When I was doing the condition inspection, I did a light pull test on the coax, and it came apart in my hand. Upgraded it from RG58 to RG400, an used soldered/crimp connectors instead of the screw-together type. No more issues. I don't know if Klaus provided the RG58 and screw-together connectors with his kits originally, or if the builder put this one together that way, but he ships with RG400 now from what I can tell.

With the Electro-air/Jeff Rose system, I had a complete brain failure once. When the mag was switched off, it would slowly start to retard the timing uncontrollably, and the engine RPM would start to slowly sluff off until it bogged. It was STRANGE. System was 10 years old though, so we sent it in. Electro-Air said it was unrepairable, and cut the owner a deal on the Gen-2 system, installed that, and he's happy. That system is now CERTIFIED which I love.

We all have heard the horror stories about the early p-mags.

Bottom line, they all can fail, one mag and one EI... the safest combo.
 
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