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RV-4 Turkey Vulture Birdstrike in FL

Hemets DO help!

I watched a wingman take a bird in the left forward portion of the canopy while on a low level mission. We were at 200' and 480 knots. After passing through the canopy it hit a glancing blow to his helmet before basically exploding against the bulkhead behind the ejection seat. It broke his visor, his collarbone and made a mess of the helmet (and the rest of the cockpit) but he survived and flew the jet home to an field arrested landing. One of the things we gave some thought to when reviewing the incident was that the helmet afforded protection not only from the mass of the bird but perhaps even more so the sharp pieces of the failed canopy which we found later. Without that helmet and visor we would likely have lost a fine fighter pilot and his trusty steed that day. RVs don't travel this fast but you see the enormous energy which might be imparted in a bird midair from the example above. Food for thought. I am thinking Doug is liking his helmet purchase just a bit more now.
 
Some thoughts

I completely respect Pierre's thoughts on this but would probably not slow down too much to check control. As a couple of others have mentioned, I'd fly the approach faster than normal to a long runway. Recovery from a control check might not be possible.

I fly medical helicopters for a living. Bright yellow ones. Color doesn't help. This is one of the biggest concerns we have. The big birds are plentiful here in the SW, day and night. Lots of Dairy farms where there is often a temporary carcass area, lots of road kill and expanses of desert. Below is how we are dressed. All but the lower face is protected. The visor is up slightly so I could see to take the picture. Visors are used day/night. At night we use NVG's.

Last year on my way to Oshkosh, I hit a pigeon (I think) just out side of Dalhart, TX on climb out. Saw a flash and felt a slight thump. No visible damage and no control issues. The only thing I noticed was a slight degrade in indicated airspeed. Ground speed was normal. Figured it hit the pitot tube.

Discovered it hit the pitot mast and tore it downward. I was able to push it back into place and repair with JB Weld. Has worked great. Next weeks project to fix permanently. (actually forgot about it).

I think wearing a helmet in an RV is impractical. Birds strikes occur but are still rather rare. Good safety glasses are helpful. Your greatest risk is take off and landing or low level cruise. Be vigilant!!! If hit, slow down land as soon as practical.

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smokyray said:
Amen, you should try 540KCAS sometime.
When they hit the airplane it"s rather pronounced...:)

V/R
Smokey
PS: the paint looks great...
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You should see the hole one punched in my leading edge flap at 480, and that's a thick, reinforced, heavy structure. Physics, amazing.
 
:eek:

Single engine to boot, not cool! I had one start an engine fire, but we at least have two of them!

Whats the canopy rated for in that thing?
 
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RV7Guy said:
I think wearing a helmet in an RV is impractical.
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Really??? I know they are cumbersome, hot, heavy, etc.; but they certainly add to survivability I'm thinking. I'm not arguing with you Darwin. I keep thinking my head jamed into my panel would not be good and maybe I should wear a helmet. :rolleyes:

Practical, is it practical??? Well, not until you need it. I'm even thinking of wearing one in my auto. The oilfield boom traffic in my area has turned once peaceful Farm to Market roads into kill zones. I've stopped replacing my windshields from cracks.

I'm enjoying life and surely do want to protect my ole noggan. I'd hate to need it and not be wearing one. ....What to do? What to do???? :confused:

Cheers,
 
dealfair said:
Really??? I know they are cumbersome, hot, heavy, etc.; but they certainly add to survivability I'm thinking. I'm not arguing with you Darwin. I keep thinking my head jamed into my panel would not be good and maybe I should wear a helmet. :rolleyes:

Practical, is it practical??? Well, not until you need it. I'm even thinking of wearing one in my auto. The oilfield boom traffic in my area has turned once peaceful Farm to Market roads into kill zones. I've stopped replacing my windshields from cracks.

I'm enjoying life and surely do want to protect my ole noggan. I'd hate to need it and not be wearing one. ....What to do? What to do???? :confused:

Cheers,
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If you really want to wear a helmet, but are worried about comfort there are a bunch of things you can do.

Gentex makes an "X-liner" that is super comfy, and also very cool (as in heat wise).

http://www.gentexcorp.com/default.aspx?pageid=2716

Oregon Aero also makes the zeta liner.

http://www.oregonaero.com/aviation-helmet-upgrades/zetaliner/helmet-liner-fitting

I can tell you I've used both in the Persian Gulf where it's 120+ with just oppressive humidty and both work very well. 16+ hours with the helmet on and not a single issue. Couple it with the soft skin ear seals and it's also very light. I've never weighed my helmet but it can't be more than a pound. Plus you can wash the liners. In the summer wear a biker style do-rag or a skull cap, and you can wash that every few hours if you're a heavy sweater. Run a comb through your hair after you land and you're ready for the ball!

http://www.oregonaero.com/aviation-helmet-upgrades/aviation-helmet-components
 
RV7Guy said:
I think wearing a helmet in an RV is impractical. Birds strikes occur but are still rather rare. Good safety glasses are helpful. Your greatest risk is take off and landing or low level cruise. Be vigilant!!! If hit, slow down land as soon as practical.

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Been wearing an HGU-84 since the very first flight in my RV-8. Very comfortable and actually provides real impact protection. Added an active noise-canx stereo ear cups and mic, lip light, and Contour-HD video camera mount. Painted the helmet to match the plane. Wouldn't fly without it.
 
Would this be helpful?

What about the protective films that can be installed on car glass to prevent intrusion/theft/car jacking like seen here ??

Watch the video about car jacking.

I know it's applied to car glass instead of plexiglass, but it could be interesting to learn if this film or some other type of protective film could help in preventing canopy failure or at least some birds from crashing through the canopy.
 
Safety Glasses

I wear safety glasses while mowing on my John Deere tractor, I have had a lot of grasshopper strikes. (oops wrong forum.)
 
LLumar Safety Film

riseric said:
What about the protective films that can be installed on car glass to prevent intrusion/theft/car jacking like seen here ??

Watch the video about car jacking.

I know it's applied to car glass instead of plexiglass, but it could be interesting to learn if this film or some other type of protective film could help in preventing canopy failure or at least some birds from crashing through the canopy.
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Good information. Could be helpful when the DHS tries to bully there way into your car too.
 
I'd like to see the person who's neck can withstand being whipped back after catching a 5-10-lb bird in the face at 100-150 kts (with a helmet, visor, etc.). Maybe it's survivable, but intuitively I'm thinking not. However, I do buy in on the safety glasses in case you don't take the bird to the head. The films are amazing, but wonder if there are any products that could conform to a compound-curved windscreen?
 
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Silent_Flyer said:
Impressive damage.. Is anyone aware of a bird strike to the canopy in an RV-4? I see the results often on the military side and know what specifications we put on tactical aircraft windscreens. As my face sits 10" from the fwd windscreen I've been curious to wee what if any testing has been done or what real world encounter is out there and the end result?
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I had a bird strike on my RV-4 Canopy in flight once. I don't know what type of bird it was but it must have been fairly small. I was flying along and "BANG". Scared the **** out of me. But the canopy was undamaged except for some bird guts and blood spatters. It hit fairly centered right in front of my face. I think the slope deflected it and that contributed to the canopy not absorbing all the energy. YMMV. I'm pretty sure a turkey vulture would have ended up in my face.
 
Myself and Ricky Smith director of ops at Phoenix Jets in Cartersville, Ga.now,were descending out of the clouds headed to Pascagoula,Miss when we encountered a flock of Buzzards in a Cessna CE 500 in 1978
I was the co Pilot and Ricky yanked and banked hard to miss all the birds but one lone bird dived bombed us went over the windscreen and struck the Vertical Stab. The damage was unreal as the first two vertical ribs were ripped in two and the skin was parted and the damage extended back to the rudder attachment on the top. The total damage was about 1 foot vertical and 2 feet horizontal gone. The bird and the guts
continued inside the V/S and parts ended up in the **** hole equipment bay. We had our mechanics come and ended up getting a ferry permit to bring the plane with the gear down back to PDK
Citations have big windscreens but a buzzard exceeds the 5 lb frozen bird test. It is a risk we all take even in our Challenger today.

Bird proof or not... Big enough it is coming inside.
I am a firm believer of sitting lower in a cockpit and do not get distracted by looking inside long.
Smilin' Jack
 
Myself and Ricky Smith director of ops at Phoenix Jets in Cartersville, Ga.now,were descending out of the clouds headed to Pascagoula,Miss when we encountered a flock of Buzzards in a Cessna CE 500 in 1978
I was the co Pilot and Ricky yanked and banked hard to miss all the birds but one lone bird dived bombed us went over the windscreen and struck the Vertical Stab. The damage was unreal as the first two vertical ribs were ripped in two and the skin was parted and the damage extended back to the rudder attachment on the top. The total damage was about 1 foot vertical and 2 feet horizontal gone. The bird and the guts
continued inside the V/S and parts ended up in the **** hole equipment bay. We had our mechanics come and ended up getting a ferry permit to bring the plane with the gear down back to PDK
Citations have big windscreens but a buzzard exceeds the 5 lb frozen bird test. It is a risk we all take even in our Challenger today.

Bird proof or not... Big enough it is coming inside.
I am a firm believer of sitting lower in a cockpit and do not get distracted by looking inside long.
Smilin' Jack
 
Av8torTom said:
Was waiting for someone to bite on that... :D

It's an interesting debate... in reality - depending on the wing of course, Bernoulli's Principle contributes about 10% to the total lift of the wing*. Take a look at the upper surface of the wing in those pictures and it's hard to imagine a clean boundry layer of airflow could exist over the top. Dan hasn't commented yet on how difficult it was to control the airplane after that amount of damage, but the pilot certainly got it safely on the ground. I think we under estimate how much lift is generated from air hitting the underside of the wing producing an upward force. Stick your hand outside the window of a moving car and you can demonstrate this. There are plenty of airplanes with symmetrical wings that fly very well - even upside down. A lot has to do with AOA, but there are many other forces at play too.

I often think of those 25 cent (OK, I'm dating myself) balsa airplanes with the flat wings, and how nicely they fly...

* - This from the Boeing engineer who designed the wing on the 787. Actually his comment to me was "Tom - don't tell anyone, but we really have NO idea how a wing flys..."
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If that's the case then how can we predict the lift on a wing with a couple of percent using computational fluid dynamics? Do you think Boeing spends 40 billion on a jet design with absolutely no idea if the wing is big enough?

All those methods calculate velocity profiles to determine static pressure all over the airplane. From there all of the forces on are calculated to predict the flight characteristics and to design the structure.

The first wind tunnel project that an aero engineering student does is usually to run a pitot tube to calculate airspeed and to see the affect of angle of attack on pitot measurement. The second one is to measure pressures all over an airfoil, integrate them and add up the forces and compare to the measured forces on the tunnel balance. The forces usually compare within a few %.
 
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