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Tool Deathmatch: Costco Borescope vs Chinese Oral Scope

339A

339A

Well Known Member
Well this all came about because my #3 cylinder exhaust valve was leaking by again. A few years back I had the same problem. I lapped the exhaust valve and compression went back up. My last oil change showed a pretty significant drop down, about 70/80. Another check a couple weeks later had it at 65/80. This is getting somewhat serious now....

Lately I have been listening to Mike Busch "Savvy Aviator" series on the EAA website. He provides a lot of great information in his webinars. In the one "All About Cylinders", Mike talks about using an Intraoral Dental camera to inspect the cylinders. Well these things are pretty expensive and Scotty is pretty **** cheap. Also, I imagine it's hard to find a dentist who is willing to give one up. Alas, don't give up hope. The Chinese have made knock offs for just about everything out there. I came across a website called DH Gate and found a dental camera for $89.00 shipped direct from The Orient via China post...

Some notes about DH Gate: it appears to be some kind of Chinese Amazon from what I can tell. I was a bit leery ordering from this site but figured if I used Pay Pal and it didn't show up (they had a guarantee), well I'm out 90.00 bucks, but I might be able to get that back from Pay Pal. A couple weeks later it actually did show up as promised, via Chinese post, in my mail box.

I loaded the software.... Well let's just say the software is not the greatest. I think it is some kind of knockoff Dental software, however I did manage to make it work and figured out how to capture pictures with it. The instruction manual is written in the finest Chinglish now available. As an example from the troubleshooting section:

Item 3

trouble states: in the process of use, the image will be a little blurry

resolve methods: if you use it the first time, it belongs to natural reaction. It will be better later on

Item #4

trouble states: freezing images then appears dithering

resolve methods: the hand shakes when uses camera to capture image, when users are skillful for use products, the phenomena can be changed

Huh...???? I'm NOT making this up.

Oh well, it is from China after all.

Today I had the chance to give my new Chinese dental scope a try. First off (and I knew this might happen) it wouldn't fit into the spark plug hole. ****! No worries. I built an airplane, I'm sure I can modify this Chinese POS into something that will work. I'll just take it apart and see what's inside. This is what I came up with.

I opened it up, took it apart, cut the case on the band saw, and put it back together. A piece of green heat shrink to protect the circuit board and ICs. Voila!

img7105k.jpg



I had re-lapped the #3 exhaust valve a couple weeks ago and wanted to check my compression to see if it had improved. After flying today and with my trusty Chinese dental scope in hand, it was time to find out. Good news, the #3 cylinder is back up to 78/80. Woo Hoo!! So let's try the camera and see how it works...

Now I called this post "Tool Deathmatch: Costco Borescope vs Chinese Oral Scope." What you haven't seen yet are the pictures I took with EAA Chapter 301's Costco borescope. I had borrowed this tool a couple months ago to try and get a look at the exhaust valve. The thing took terrible pictures. My grandson's Fisher Price camera works better than this! Honestly, this is the BEST picture I got of the exhaust valve. The rest of them were worse, if that's possible. You can sort of make out the shape of the valve.


1040241j.jpg



Here are some pictures from today using the modified Chinese POS dental scope:

#3 Exhaust Valve. Look at the detail in the seat.

vg000006.jpg



Another shot of the #3 exhaust valve

3exhaust.jpg


A pic of the #1 intake valve, just because.

1intake.jpg


Well, what can I say... looks like Chinese POS wins the match hands down! K.O. I'm pretty pleased with the results. For $89.00 dollars I've got a GOOD inspection tool for my engine. How long will it last, I have no idea.

Deb and I are planning a trip next week to San Diego to visit our son/daughter in-law and grandkids. I wanted to be sure that I didn't have an exhaust valve problem before we headed out over the Rocky pile. Now I feel much more comfortable about keeping this engine going. After all, this H2AD now has 1800 hours total time on it and 1100 of those are on 339A!

Regards,
 
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That's really cool! The images remind me of Jim Cameron's original Titanic video footage, the stuff he shot at the bottom of the ocean.
 
If you can't inspect around the valve seats and the area between the spark plug hole and the exhaust seat is probably not worth messing with.
 
Need more information about the the Batch 19 Pre-Prohibition Style Lager.
 
Batch 19

Fortunately for me I work with a lady who is retired from Coors, as well as her husband. Needless to say I get some pretty good buys on different Coors beer. According to Coors advertising: "a few years ago when we discovered and old recipe in the basement archives of the brewery, dating back before Prohibition"

Anyhow it really is pretty tasty and seems to be competition for Sam Adams Boston Lager. Very similar style. I like it at 5.5% ;)

I plan to bring a case with me to OSH maybe two, if I can get Bryan Raley aka "The Mule" to agree. We'll be in HBC all week stop by and if there is any left you're more than welcome to have one. :cool:

Scott

DanH said:
Need more information about the the Batch 19 Pre-Prohibition Style Lager.
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jbDC9 said:
Ha! That's the first thing I thought of as well... mmm, beer.

Gotta love the interweb and Ratebeer.com; it appears to be a small batch Coors brew...
http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/coors-batch-19/122612/
Click to expand...
 
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rocketbob said:
If you can't inspect around the valve seats and the area between the spark plug hole and the exhaust seat is probably not worth messing with.
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According to Mike Busch, who is also a well-known and respected engine guru, his take on borescope inspections is somewhat different. I know the Webinar video is long, but it's well worth watching. Just pick it up from about 29 minutes on. This is where he starts the discussion on borescopes, what he uses, and what he looks for. Very informative. I particularly like his statement at around 46:10.

My still photos don't show it, but I can actually get quite a bit of movement with the camera. Given that the RV fleet is growing and aging every day, we NEED to be doing these kinds of inspections to keep ourselves safe and the hobby in good standing.
 
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339A said:
According to Mike Busch, who is also a well-known and respected engine guru, his take on borescope inspections is somewhat different.
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I use a Lenox borescope and nothing I do is anything different than what he looks for but I have caught cracks between the spark plug hole and the exhaust valve. With the Lenox I can inspect this area easily. If this video borescope can do that I'll buy one in a heartbeat.
 
BEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRR!

339A said:
I plan to bring a case with me to OSH maybe two, if I can get Bryan Raley aka "The Mule" to agree. We'll be in HBC all week stop by and if there is any left you're more than welcome to have one. :cool:

Scott
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Hah! And I thought you were going to pack your cooler full of ill-fitting-in-airplane essentials, like tents and chairs and such!. Of course you realize that I might just have to apply that special pre-prohibition transport tax for this little favor, or perhaps if your supply ends up being minus one or two bottles by the time you arrive at KOSH, that might be sufficient as well.:D

On a more "related-to-thread" note - I am jotting this one down in my "future-to-do" list. Nice adaptation, and not bad for a POS from China! I even half understood the Chinenglish instructions - no doubt from much past experience.
 
Beer Runner Fees

Flyin'Bryan said:
Hah! And I thought you were going to pack your cooler full of ill-fitting-in-airplane essentials, like tents and chairs and such!. Of course you realize that I might just have to apply that special pre-prohibition transport tax for this little favor, or perhaps if your supply ends up being minus one or two bottles by the time you arrive at KOSH, that might be sufficient as well.:D
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Well there will be some ill fitting airplane essential items to be carried. As with any good rum running business you need a legitimate cover for your contraband. ;) Making sure that the "transport tax" is paid will be of the utmost importance.

I see in another thread that Pete Howell now has access to "Moonshine". This could lead to a possible expanding of the business... just a short hop over to Tennessee. :eek:

Thanks as always Bryan,
 
Good info Scott. I'm ordering one, because the Costco scope is the real POS. I have one and hate it.

Just curious... Are you running ROP? From the images, that would be my guess.
 
Phil said:
Good info Scott. I'm ordering one, because the Costco scope is the real POS. I have one and hate it.

Just curious... Are you running ROP? From the images, that would be my guess.
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It would certainly be correct to say I run ROP. Even though I have a GRT EIS I have never had any success getting it to a LOP condition. It's a carbureted engine. Typically I just lean to roughness then crank it in two turns.

On another note, I did locate some "Free" camera software that seems to work OK with the camera. It is easier to use and works better than the supplied Chinese dental software. It is called Debut Video Capture software.

At my next oil change I plan to do a through camera inspection of all cylinders. When I get that done I will post it here and see what the engine experts think of my internals....:(

Regards,
 
339A said:
It would certainly be correct to say I run ROP. Even though I have a GRT EIS I have never had any success getting it to a LOP condition. It's a carbureted engine. Typically I just then crank it in two turns.
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I'm certainly no expert on this, but there was a EAA webinar on leaning just last Wednesday. I'm sure you could find a recording, but Mike Busch said you should lean to roughness and then richen the mixture just until it runs smooth, and that's it.

I thought it was a pretty good webinar, but I generally like all the ones he puts on.

The dental camera you found looks great. I may have to talk to my A&P into getting one.:)
 
I ordered and received that very same one. When I tried to load the software/driver for it, I got a virus detection warning. I bitched to the seller and he said to ignore the warning. I wasn't willing to do that, so he sent me a mini DVD with the software to load. Same problem, and he again advised to ignore the warning. Big runaround and I finally demanded my money back, which I eventually did get.

Proceed with caution and make sure you at least have up to date virus detection.
erich
 
Mile High Relic said:
.....but Mike Busch said you should lean to roughness and then richen the mixture just until it runs smooth, and that's it.

I thought it was a pretty good webinar, but I generally like all the ones he puts on.
....
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Which is exactly what the instructors taught in the 70's before anyone had any sort of engine monitoring instruments....:D
 
Lighting?

Thanks for the tip Scott. I'm with Phil, I can't get the Costco one to work worth a **** so far.

Did you add any external lighting sources for those samples you showed, or was it all from the camera?

Dwight
 
Can you elaborate a bit on how it works? Looks like there is a small head unit on a hinge? Does the hinge allow the head to rotate 180degs or so?

Ie, fold the head into an L shape to show the valves? Straighten head into a straight | shape to view the cylinder walls? Then bend another 90 deg to show the piston heads? Is that how it can be used?
 
Mile High Relic said:
I'm certainly no expert on this, but there was a EAA webinar on leaning just last Wednesday. I'm sure you could find a recording, but Mike Busch said you should lean to roughness and then richen the mixture just until it runs smooth, and that's it.


The dental camera you found looks great. I may have to talk to my A&P into getting one.:)
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Really, my two-turn method is one full turn.... two half turns in, then I stop. However, after being reminded of this, I might be a bit more conservative and richen it up sloooowly.


erich weaver said:
I ordered and received that very same one. When I tried to load the software/driver for it, I got a virus detection warning. I bitched to the seller and he said to ignore the warning. I wasn't willing to do that, so he sent me a mini DVD with the software to load. Same problem, and he again advised to ignore the warning. Big runaround and I finally demanded my money back, which I eventually did get.

Proceed with caution and make sure you at least have up to date virus detection.
erich
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I entirely agree with this statement. I actually have several different laptops at my disposal. I loaded this Chinese software on a work one that isn't being used for anything. While I didn't get any virus warnings, the software is seriously lacking and several things just don't work. Something else I noticed...I tried to load the software on a couple other laptops after I had it installed and it kept giving me an error and wouldn't recognize the mini disk. Put it back into the original laptop (the one it was loaded on) and it recognized the disk. So it appears even the Chinese are concerned about pirated software...:confused:

Like I said before, I did find a "free" version of camera capture software and there are several in that link, though some cost money. The one I downloaded seems to work pretty well. Had to reboot twice to get it going though. The camera driver is the one piece I still use from the Chinese. I bet there are better ones available. It appears to be a "USB 2861 Video camera." I'm no software expert so maybe someone who knows more about that can chime in.

az_gila said:
Which is exactly what the instructors taught in the 70's before anyone had any sort of engine monitoring instruments....:D
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That's what I learned back in the 90s...

Space Cadet said:
Thanks for the tip Scott. I'm with Phil, I can't get the Costco one to work worth a **** so far.

Did you add any external lighting sources for those samples you showed, or was it all from the camera?

Dwight
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None at all. It has six LEDs and they are BRIGHT. It will blind you if you point it in your face... guess how I know. :(

jchang10 said:
Can you elaborate a bit on how it works? Looks like there is a small head unit on a hinge? Does the hinge allow the head to rotate 180degs or so?

Ie, fold the head into an L shape to show the valves? Straighten head into a straight | shape to view the cylinder walls? Then bend another 90 deg to show the piston heads? Is that how it can be used?
Click to expand...

Think of this thing like a toothbrush. It has a hard circuit board in it with ICs and the camera aperture/LEDs are attached to the end. It is NOT flexible at all. That is definitely one downside. However, I was surprised how well I could turn it around in the spark plug hole and what I could see. I'm sure with a little more playing around and some clever work we might be able to come up with a way to get it further into the cylinder.

This was designed as a dental camera not a borescope. I just modified it so I could look at my valves. :cool: The pictures I posted are untouched and just what the camera took. That's why I was so amazed. This camera is 90 bucks and seems to work waaaay better than many of the $200.00 "cheap" borescopes out there.

I'm already thinking about ways to modify it further. I could probably take the entire case off because you don't actually need the buttons. The software has a "button" which allows you to take a picture. This should allow you to stick it into the cylinder further and get a good look at the walls. I'll try this at my next oil change.

Regards,
 
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339A said:
I'm already thinking about ways to modify it further. I could probably take the entire case off because you don't actually need the buttons. The software has a "button" which allows you to take a picture. This should allow you to stick it into the cylinder further and get a good look at the walls. I'll try this at my next oil change.
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How 'bout you get it all optimized for us, find the best, virus-free software, and put together a nice home-brew product for us with a small profit built in for you? Heck, get the process down and have your teenage son or daughter make them up and ship them. Your first sale is me.

We should all be checking out our exhaust valves at every annual, and getting the cost for such a camera down to the level where most of us will get one seems very achievable. The potential market goes beyond us RV folk as well. Even the certified crowd could use these. Whata ya say?

erich
 
Toy purchase

I recently got one of these.
http://www.amazon.com/Dental-Intra-Oral-Camera-Computer-Connection/dp/B003EH33OQ
Haven't been able to cut it up and can't seem to get it to work on an apple laptop. Works fine on a PC but the camera only has a 30mm focal legth but incredible detail up close.
I am not sure I'll be able to get close enough to the valves about 1.5" or less.
I'll report when I know more.
Some way to get it to play with an Ipad would be great, anyone have any good ideas?
 
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