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Google to shut down Picasa - will affect photo links.

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Photobucket has been around a while but we never know who'll get the axe next. PB does have Casino commercial ads which may make it profitable...
 
I'm starting to translate my personal "fun" stuff like that to "real" AWS S3 storage...
 
DR, Need Some Data...

DR, it may be finally time to host the photos on VAF. I'm sure this will cost more. That will probably require a change in something, and I bet that's the current honor system of paying for this. But perhaps not.

Can you float some sample scenarios out for us? Might be something that we, as your community, can help figure out.

Thanks!
Dave
 
Your content won't be lost ... just part of Google Photos ... though all the links will indeed break ... but that could happen to any hosting service ...

Only solution is to provide hosting on the forums ...
 
kamikaze said:
Your content won't be lost ... just part of Google Photos ... though all the links will indeed break ... but that could happen to any hosting service ...

Only solution is to provide hosting on the forums ...
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It could be set up so those who donated at least $XX/year could host their pictures on VAF. Those who didn't wish to donate could find host their photos elsewhere.
 
Google (Uncle Sam) giveth free stuff and Google (Uncle Sam) taketh away.

Always painful, but who would not expect that would happen eventually?

Photos are a vital part of VAF. Since others disappeared years ago, I archive a thread that has valuable content.

I won't be spending the time to recreate links for my posts unless asked, and that will only be by request. Guessing which which picts will be the trick.

Paying VAF for a photo hosting would be fine, but as members depart, the cost of storage would remain and content deleted along with demise of membership payments. Not necessarily more durable than using a free service.
 
Just had a thought - it would be a bit more work, but a person could host their photos on two separate sites. One would be used for the display of the photo and the other would be a passive link that a user could click on if the first failed.

Dave
 
Just another reason why I set up my own domain name, and have it set up to direct to my SmugMug photo site. $60 a year is worth the price of having total control over your photos and videos. Unlimited storage, too!
 
Just move it all to Google Drive, which is what Google wants anyway. Imgur.com is also an easy to use site with few or no ads and provides for linking to smaller images, unlike G.Drive.
 
Meet the new boss....same as the old boss.

Current active photo sharing sites:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_photo-sharing_websites#Active_photo-sharing_websites

There's no easy answer, technology is ever changing, and 'free' photo hosting is rarely free forever. Having said that, from a bandwidth standpoint hosting photos here would be INSANELY, CRIPPLINGLY expensive, and one thing I've learned doing this site for nearly fifteen years is that it's fairly difficult to get pilots to spend money on anything that isn't for their airplane <g>.

Keep backups and consider hosting your own pictures on your own domain (as others have suggested) if you don't want to use one of the 'free' sites. At the very least, keep a URL to your current photo albums online in your autosignature, so if the photo location ever changes a quick edit to your autosignature will give us a place to look).

Google did say in their announcement:

"...we will take some time in order to do this right and provide you with options and easy ways to access your content." ".... we will be creating a new place for you to access your Picasa Web Albums data. That way, you will still be able to view, download, or delete your Picasa Web Albums..."
​
Some picture links in threads might break, and that stinks, but it's the way of the interweb at this demographic's price point. I'm on my fifth 'free' email address and third hosting solution since 1995. I have a web server OS upgrade/migration staring me down right now that will cost me more than a RV-12 fuselage kit. I don't want to do it, but it's being forced on me because...you know...technology. Welcome to my world <g>.

Sorry there is no easy or painless answer. I.T. is a moving target and only steady occasionally. Doing it this way spreads the risk around. PLEASE don't ask me to be responsible for everybody's pictures in addition to everything else!!! I much prefer you to be responsible for your own pictures.

I don't want to be responsible for the pictures of 20,000 RV builders!!!

As a parallel regarding online build log sites.....if you think that data is there forever, I would beg you to get a backup every so often just in case.

v/r,
dr

PS:
Photo album link in my autosignature. Maybe it will change...maybe not.

PSS:
I give some final thoughts, before closing out the thread HERE.
.

.
 
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What Doug needs is a big sponsor who's business is highly dependent on the integrity of this site to step up to the plate and solve this problem.

For example, if we all stopped posting construction tips and product reviews, who would be hurt the most (other than Doug)?

BTW, I have stopped posting tips that require images and many of the old ones from my RV-9A days are about to disappear. I have spent over $1000 keeping my site running for the benefit of others. My storage is full.

V
 
I made a test using www.imagebam.com, which seems to be an easy site to use, to see how a dual link would work (see my post #4 above).

Here's the imagebam.com embedded link to the photo, which you can click on if the picture doesn't display below, and here it is from TinyPic.com:

2gt25ur.jpg


Gotta say that Imagebam.com is much easier to use. With TinyPic.com, I've got to turn off my ad-blocking, tracking-blocking add-in called Ghostery and then sit through a short advert. But with Imagebam I don't.

Dave
 
Well this is going to greatly affect the value of the VAF archives!

I totally get that Doug can't afford to pay to host all the pictures on his site.

I also totally get that NO outside solutions, no matter how big they are today (Google didn't exist ten years ago, what says they'll be around in another ten....) so while every well intentioned person who says "try this free site, or that free site" migh have a solution, none of them can be counted on to be permanent.

I've been postign since about day one here on VAF - and there's no way I am going to go back and find all my picture posts and update the links - even if I was to go and re-host all the pictures that are sitting in Picassa. Even if the magic money fairy touched we wand on Doug's shoulder and made it possible for him to host the photos here - I couldn't do it. Don't have the time to do that...sorry.

What we need is for some of the really smart IT pros that lurk here to think of an easy way to mine the archives and somehow grab all the pictures with some sort of macro. Yeah you still have to find a place to store them...but we've probably got folks smart enough to hide them on some server somewhere....I wonder how many terrabytes it would all take?

Unfortunately, nothing is permanent. Kitplanes used to store all of its paper archives in a hanagr somewhere - and a fire in 2007 destroyed them all. When someone asks me for an artcile from 2001 (for instance) I have to tell them we don't have it - ask on the internet if somoen has a copy! And I've got some really cool files on 8" floppies around here somewhere..... :)
 
Storing the photos isn't the issue, it's the bandwidth to serve them up again on demand that's the killer. Storage is (effectively) free. Bandwidth is not.

A large part of the issue is that people insist on including photos that are 8MB in size, when really a 1024x768 jpg file that's only 100kB in size would do just fine (and i'm guilty of it too, I know).

If everyone included photos that were no larger than 200Kb (and that's being generous), the bandwidth requirements wouldn't really be *that* bad. There would be some overhead in teaching everyone how to use MS-Paint to crop and resize an image (or download an Image Resizer), or maybe configuring the upload system to automatically resize and lower the quality to get the size down without adversely affecting the image.

With those changes, and a corporate sponsor kicking in something to cover the bandwidth increase, my gut feel is that Doug might be able to do it... But I can understand the reluctance to leave that extra sponsorship money on the table when it could be used elsewhere... It's not like we all haven't figured out how to host our own photos for the last umpteen years... :)

I think the bigger risk to Doug is that multiple photo hosting sites start changing hands or closing. The tips and photos that go with them are the meat and potatoes of this site, and losing that may adversely affect profitability of the site as a whole. Also, over time the frequency of the same question being asked again and again will go up... It's easier to just start a new thread than it is to waste time searching for an old one that may not have photos in it anyway...
 
"Storage is (effectively) free. Bandwidth is not."

Plenty of web hosting out there offering unlimited storage *and bandwidth* for less than 20$/month ... I really don't see what the issue is.

[ed. Hi, J.F., The bandwidth issue arises (if *I* were to host them) with me serving up pictures in 70,000+ page views a day. With them spread out over the web in other hosting spots it doesn't count against my total. v/r,dr]
 
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Doug - is the following possible with your webmaster utilities:
a> Search VAF for all my posts that contain picture links
b> Provide the result as a list of urls to each individual post and the picture link urls it contains.

I think I've posted less than 50 pics.
That would make a migration less painful.

[ed. Bill, I don't know of a way off the top of my head. Sorry. v/r,dr]
 
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Snowflake is right about file sizes. An 800 X 600 image at 72 DPI and say 50-100Kb file size is adequate and sharp enough for most uses. I hate it at work when someone sends me an out of focus, 3Mb photo 3400 X 2600 at 300 DPI where i pay for data. (Or worse 20 of them!)

Wish folks would learn how to downsize with a photo editor... Uses way less time, data and storage.
 
Most forum software, including this one I presume, support automatic resizing of uploaded images ... [ed. It does not. You host your own photos elsewhere and embed them here. dr]
 
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kamikaze said:
"Storage is (effectively) free. Bandwidth is not."

Plenty of web hosting out there offering unlimited storage *and bandwidth* for less than 20$/month ... I really don't see what the issue is.
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I suspect you're suggesting that Doug use one of those sites for storage. I strongly suspect that the EULA for those sites specifies that they are for personal, non-commercial use. Anyone looking for *commercial* hosting of images (and that's Doug) is going to pay a lot more for it.

And even if Doug did use a third-party site to host the images, he'd be just as vulnerable to the third-party site deciding to shut down for any number of reasons... Leaving him in the same boat he's in now.

Bill_H said:
Doug - is the following possible with your webmaster utilities:
a> Search VAF for all my posts that contain picture links
b> Provide the result as a list of urls to each individual post and the picture link urls it contains.
...
[ed. Bill, I don't know of a way off the top of my head. Sorry. v/r,dr]
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I strongly suspect that someone with a good grasp of whatever database you're using (MySQL?) and a scripting language like php, perl, etc. could code that up. If I weren't swamped with a new job and a hunt for both a new house and hangar, i'd offer to do it myself.
 
I just tried using the Search here on VAF to get a handle on this:

1. Click on the "Search" link at the top of the page here in the forums.
2. When the popup window opens, click on "Advanced Search".
3. Under "Search by Keyword", enter the text "picasa" or "picasaweb".
4. Under "Search by User Name", enter your VAF username.

Leave all the other defaults, which should search everywhere, and hit "search". It returned three posts with "picasa" as the search term, but none with "picasaweb". I know i've posted more photos from Picasa than the results support.

"picasaweb" is the start of the URL for Picasa photos... picasaweb.google.com/... So it's likely that the Search function isn't looking in URL's.

Doug, is there a way to let the search look in URL's? Or is it not finding it because picasaweb isn't surrounded by spaces?
 
"I suspect you're suggesting that Doug use one of those sites for storage. I strongly suspect that the EULA for those sites specifies that they are for personal, non-commercial use. Anyone looking for *commercial* hosting of images (and that's Doug) is going to pay a lot more for it.

And even if Doug did use a third-party site to host the images, he'd be just as vulnerable to the third-party site deciding to shut down for any number of reasons... Leaving him in the same boat he's in now."

I mean the entire forums could be hosted with an unlimited service. And no, the EULA does not preclude this, in fact it's in favor of it. the conditions on "unlimited" use are generally that you use the resources for your actual website (i.e. don't get an unlimited web hosting plan so you can store your private music in there, or use use it like a drive). the other general disclaimer is that if your site is so demanding that it starts crippling service for other customers, then the hosting company may take action, but that seems only fair ...

70 000 page views a day (and associated images) in the world of large, professional hosting companies that host tens or even hundreds of thousands of web sites I expect would not be a big deal ...

"[ed. It does not. You host your own photos elsewhere and embed them here. dr]"
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vBulletin has supported attachments, including images, since version 3 was released (which it looks like is what you're running?). You can place limits on image sizes at least, in later versions (5 at least, not sure about 4) you can resize automatically.

Just saying a combination of a different host with a more recent version of VB could possibly allow you to host photos, likely for cheaper than whatever hosting you're using now based on your statements about hosting photos being cripplingly expensive at least ...
 
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I have surfed this site for years, dreaming of building my RV. 4 failed starts due to drastic life changes. Finally at the point where I am building a panel for my long dreamed of -8. I never paid dues through all those years. I was exempt due to the rules set by Doug. This year I finally sent in my dues and I will every year moving forward. Why? Because now that I am spending so much time building I have realized that the archived content available here, specifically the pictures, is priceless.

Why am I saying this? The archives are what draw new people in. I posted 5 posts in as many years...but I read every single post regarding RV8's...and then -7's and -6's. To cripple the archives is to cripple the site. Think of all the priceless pictures posted by the late Mr. Axsom...I have downloaded all of them but future builders will not have that option.

It seems to me that if they were hosted here, automatically resized, the bandwidth could be controlled. Or perhaps hosted remotely but through this site so that they could be moved in bulk in the future. There are a lot of options out there and a pretty competitive IT market. Just my 2 cents, but I have to believe it's worth investigating.

Disclaimer: I am not an IT guy but I slept in a Holiday Inn last night.
 
meloosifah said:
It seems to me that if they were hosted here, automatically resized, the bandwidth could be controlled. Or perhaps hosted remotely but through this site so that they could be moved in bulk in the future. There are a lot of options out there and a pretty competitive IT market. Just my 2 cents, but I have to believe it's worth investigating.

Disclaimer: I am not an IT guy but I slept in a Holiday Inn last night.
Click to expand...

I think I saw some vBulletin add-ons for photobucket integration ... so the whole host remotely but "via" the forums may be possible ... though you remain at the mercy of that provider.

Part of the problem may be the old version of vBulletin lacking in some features ...

DISCLAIMER: I am an IT guy, but I slept at home last night :)
 
DeltaRomeo said:
There's no easy answer, technology is ever changing, and 'free' photo hosting is rarely free forever. Having said that, from a bandwidth standpoint hosting photos here would be INSANELY, CRIPPLINGLY expensive, and one thing I've learned doing this site for nearly fifteen years is that it's fairly difficult to get pilots to spend money on anything that isn't for their airplane <g>.
Click to expand...


The current situation:
  • The photos greatly add to the value of the site for builders.
  • Hosting large photos on VAF servers would create a large recurring cost for bandwidth.
  • The current donation system gives nothing in return for the donation, except for a nice warm feeling that you are helping feed Doug's family.
  • As a result, only a small percentage of visitors actually pay dues.

You need a way to align the site visitors interests with your interests. How about something like:
  • Photos are hosted on VAF, and they are automatically resized to a reasonable max size. Ideally, the original, full size files would be saved, but smaller versions would be automatically created during the upload process. The smaller versions would be served to web pages. In the future, if bandwidth costs go down, and the number of pixels in displays increase, the site settings could be adjusted to increase the size of the images served to web pages.
  • Visitors who had not paid dues would only see small image thumbnails, with no way to access the large image sizes.
  • Visitors who had paid dues would have the option of clicking the thumbnails to see large images.
  • This would minimize bandwidth costs for visitors who had not paid dues.
  • The ongoing revenue from dues would cover image hosting costs.
  • The fact that paying dues was the only way to see full size images would provide a clear reason to become a site subscriber, and increase the percentage of visitors who paid up.

I realize that the proposed system would require some custom coding to implement. But the increase in dues should be more than enough to cover coding costs.
 
The resizing part can be had with an upgrade of the forum software ... costs a few hundred dollars it seems ...

Restricting attachment views to specific users I'm not sure about ... could potentially be doable via the permissions system ...

I personally have always found that communities like these thrive by being as open as possible, so I'd suggest an approach centered on reducing costs ... especially if you're being charged 5K$ for an OS upgrade! At first glance, that sounds like highway robbery ...

With the exchange rate, come get hosted in Canada and hire me, 40% cheaper out of the gate ;)

If you do want to create two classes of users to work on increasing income, you could allow paid subscribers to upload/download attachments, and others NOT to. Looks like you can do that with your current setup should you wish.
 
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Maybe this will work..

Doug... If you are inclined to dust off your programming skills...
Here is a possible solution. I have used imageMagik with good success in the past.

This solution is specific to PHP which it looks like VansAirforce.net is written with.

http://www.sanwebe.com/2014/10/ajax-image-upload-resize-with-imagemagick-jquery-php

The previous posters are correct that the bandwidth can become a pretty low number if all the images are forced to be a nice small size. It may be time to shop for a different hosting company too.

Your web site will be much more valuable with images that don't disappear. Some (maybe a lot) of posts are useless without the pictures. It will also eliminate the incessant posts from the technically challenged crowd that wants to make an image show up on the post, but can't figure out how post it somewhere else then get the url embeded. It will be much simpler to allow the user to just do it on your site.

I hope this helps.
 
Thank you for all the suggestions.

Google is making some changes with their pictures down the road, and life goes on. It's not the first time, nor will it be the last. There are over 20 photo hosting solutions HERE if you would like to try something else instead of what they offer. Whatever you want to use is fine with me!

I made a conscience decision over a decade ago to have the pictures hosted offsite (spread around) due to many reasons, first and foremost is that I absolutely DO NOT want to be responsible for the pictures from 20,000+ people. I prefer instead that you be responsible for your own pictures, wherever you decide to host them. They can be whatever size you want.

For those concerned about a thread with pictures ever 'breaking':
If you find a thread that has pictures embedded in it and you would like to get a copy on your local hard disk (if you think someday that picture hosting site might change for example), you can bring up the thread in question and select Thread Tools, Show Printable Version, then select File/Save As......or 'Print' to a PDF or XPS file depending on your browser. Couple of options to get copies of both the text and pictures to your local drive...

Since this now seems to be turning off into a 'how I should run my site' tangent, I'm going to go ahead and close it. If you would like to email me privately, you are more than welcome to. I'd welcome it. I really do mean that.

Thanks,
Doug
 
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