What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Medical Certification of Certain Small Aircraft Pilots; physician's statement

Sam Buchanan

been here awhile
We have been wondering what a physician performing the physical exam under the new rule would be required to sign. Here it is:

Furthermore, section 2307(b)(2)(C)(iv) of FESSA requires the checklist to instruct the physician to sign the checklist, stating: “I certify that I discussed all items on this checklist with the individual during my examination, discussed any medications the individual is taking that could interfere with his or her ability to safely operate an aircraft or motor vehicle, and performed an examination that included all of the items on this checklist. I certify that I am not aware of any medical condition that, as presently treated, could interfere with the individual's ability to safely operate an aircraft.” The FAA is implementing this requirement in § 68.7(c)(4).

This is from page 39 of the FAA rule.
 
Last edited:
I'd still like to know what these items in the checklist for the doc have to do with flying...

(ix) anus (not including digital examination);
(x) skin;
...
(xiv) identifying body marks, scars, and tattoos (size and location)

Somehow, I'm having a great deal of trouble envisioning how a scar or tattoo could be a problem involving anyone flying a plane. Not mention, as I've said before, I'm not sure I'd want to know what sort of anal problem would cause a safety of flight issue :)
 
Plus, they somehow forgot to include gynecological exams for female pilots...we male pilots get the "turn your head and cough routine", after all.
 
I've read and re-read the FAA materials and I can't find the height requirements. I'm 6' tall. Does that me I'm excluded?

Excellent question....and it only applies to certain small pilots.......I'm sure this would not apply to pilots who fly tail wheel aircraft........
 
Last edited:
?I certify.... could interfere with the individual's ability to safely operate an aircraft.?[/B] The FAA is implementing this requirement in ? 68.7(c)(4).

This is from page 39 of the FAA rule.

If a physician is not a pilot nor has ever been in a cockpit how can he "certify" that someone is safe to operate an aircraft? I would anticipate some number of physicians (assuming they read the statement) will be reluctant to sign.
 
Not sure if this is a thread for jokes or actual discussion but I'll go with the latter.

The EAA Q&A on it says:

EAA will be working with its Aeromedical and Legal Advisory Councils to provide members with resources to help their doctors understand the basis and limits of this statement. Remember: a doctor’s refusal to sign this statement does not constitute denial of a medical, as a denial on a third-class medical exam would.

I like my doctor and I would never ask him to make such a certification because of COURSE I have a condition that COULD make it difficult to safely pilot a plane (Meniere's Disease).

As luck would have it, my medical -- and my special issuance -- expires on April 30. One of the reasons I chose to sell my plane and let the medical expire is because I couldn't be sure when the rule would be finalized and also this "requirement" remains a potential sticking point.

So I'm pretty comfortable with just going to light sport even with this announcement today.
 
I'd still like to know what these items in the checklist for the doc have to do with flying...

(ix) anus (not including digital examination);...

...Not mention, as I've said before, I'm not sure I'd want to know what sort of anal problem would cause a safety of flight issue :)
Must have correct "pucker factor" reaction during certain aviation situations.

I'd still like to know what these items in the checklist for the doc have to do with flying...

(x) skin;

Somehow, I'm having a great deal of trouble envisioning how a scar or tattoo could be a problem involving anyone flying a plane.
Not for flying an airplane but for identifying your remains if your "pucker factor" reaction didn't work correctly. :D
 
Identifying criteria may be related to ensuring no substitutes presented to the doctor. Use the info for verification/quality control back in OK.
 
I'd still like to know what these items in the checklist for the doc have to do with flying...

(ix) anus (not including digital examination);
(x) skin;
...
(xiv) identifying body marks, scars, and tattoos (size and location)

Somehow, I'm having a great deal of trouble envisioning how a scar or tattoo could be a problem involving anyone flying a plane. Not mention, as I've said before, I'm not sure I'd want to know what sort of anal problem would cause a safety of flight issue :)

I have always wondered if there is a picture in a medical book somewhere of a perfect anus for the doctors to go by. There must be a benchmark somewhere.
 
Does anyone know the rules for cfi's? Some years ago the FAA ruled cfi's were teachers, not pilots, and therefore did not fly for hire and thus needed only class 3 medicals. Does that still apply? E.g., can cfi's participate in the new program?
 
If a physician is not a pilot nor has ever been in a cockpit how can he "certify" that someone is safe to operate an aircraft? I would anticipate some number of physicians (assuming they read the statement) will be reluctant to sign.

As far as I'm concerned anyone who can drive a 7,000 pound f-350 down the highway should be able to fly an 1800 lb bird. (Yes I know there are heavier planes that apply...) lol
 
medical

Lets see, I can haul over 120,000lbs have 30 tires on the pavement over 90 feet long, 600hp. Be 16 feet wide in traffic. and they are worried about me flying in a aircraft that weighs 1065lbs 180 hp on the hiway in the sky and my commercial license medical card is not valid with the FAA. You would think it would be better than the new basic medical regs.
 
Does anyone know the rules for cfi's? Some years ago the FAA ruled cfi's were teachers, not pilots, and therefore did not fly for hire and thus needed only class 3 medicals. Does that still apply? E.g., can cfi's participate in the new program?

It is my understanding that, unless a CFI will be acting as PIC, NO MEDICAL at all is required.

I have been known to be wrong, on more than one occasion!

Standing by for correction.....
 
Does anyone know the rules for cfi's? Some years ago the FAA ruled cfi's were teachers, not pilots, and therefore did not fly for hire and thus needed only class 3 medicals. Does that still apply? E.g., can cfi's participate in the new program?

The FAA FAQ states as long as the CFI isn't PIC the new medical is adequate, but if they are PIC it's considered compensation and requires a traditional medical.
 
If a physician is not a pilot nor has ever been in a cockpit how can he "certify" that someone is safe to operate an aircraft? I would anticipate some number of physicians (assuming they read the statement) will be reluctant to sign.
Three points:
1) If you have a previous medical (which you must), the doctor is only agreeing with what a previous AME has said. No new liability here.

2) Being a pilot is irrelevant. Non-truck-driving doctors have been "certifying" DOT physicals for decades.

3) Any doctor who's reluctant to sign something as benign as this hasn't given any thought to what he attests to daily. For example, some 15% (IIRC) of new breast cancer patients have a documented normal breast exam. That being the case, there's a lot more liability in writing "Breasts: normal" than there is in this FAA form.

Bring your bits and $100 to Indianapolis and I'll sign that thing right now!
 
The FAA FAQ states as long as the CFI isn't PIC the new medical is adequate, but if they are PIC it's considered compensation and requires a traditional medical.

Actually, for a long time now, no medical at all has been required for a CFI to ply his trade, for hire, as long as the student could act as PIC under the conditions of the flight (i.e. no pre-solo students). This is right from the FAA. I've seen a copy of the letter. The new "medical" apparently won't bridge the "gap" to non-PIC qualified students.
 
my tats

I hate to turn a funny thread around to serious... but I did notice the confusion about tattoos. It has always been my understanding that they are used for identification of the deceased. At times.
One other bit of trivia. In the fine print of your old traditional medical, you gave the right to the government to autopsy your body. This cannot be denied, even if family members object. I am sure they will keep this in force. The blame the pilot mentality always includes autopsy and tox screens.
 
Cdl medical

I have to be examined every year to maintain my cdl. The exam is every bit as thorough as my class 3 was and includes drug test. I am hoping the FAA will recognize this fact and accept the CDL medical as a acceptable substitute for the now unneeded class 3.

And my employer pays for it.😃
 
I have to be examined every year to maintain my cdl. The exam is every bit as thorough as my class 3 was and includes drug test. I am hoping the FAA will recognize this fact and accept the CDL medical as a acceptable substitute for the now unneeded class 3.

And my employer pays for it.��

I have a similar, job-related exam. I may see if the physician will complete the FAA form in the course of the transportation physical.
 
useless data point

As a useless data point, in France we have to get a physical to play competitive golf. And believe me, that young doctor that used to do that physical for me was thorough. :D Thankfully I don't need her any more now that I have to get an aviation physical every year - he also signs off on my golf license.
 
Last edited:
Exam

I have a similar, job-related exam. I may see if the physician will complete the FAA form in the course of the transportation physical.

I asked my GP a few days ago. He wasn't keen on pilots flying without a 3rd Class ut he was a Flight Surgeon. I mentioned discussing it after all the documentation is available and he seemed open to it.

In the past every exam had to be a separate visit so I expect the same. At least one exam will only happen every four years. I also get a DOT every two, FAA 3rd class every two, plus an annual wellness. Same doctor till four years ago. My new one still does my DOT and annual. Thanksfully the company pays for the DOT. Happy to see one go away if possible. My GP knows me pretty good.
 
Actually, for a long time now, no medical at all has been required for a CFI to ply his trade, for hire, as long as the student could act as PIC under the conditions of the flight (i.e. no pre-solo students). This is right from the FAA. I've seen a copy of the letter. The new "medical" apparently won't bridge the "gap" to non-PIC qualified students.

Well, that is not good news. It rules out using the new medical not just for pre-solo students, but all student pilots (by rule, student pilots cannot act as PIC in an aircraft carrying passengers). I couldn't take instrument students into actual IMC since I would need to be PIC since they're not yet rated. For initial aircraft checkouts, the insurance company wants the cfi to be PIC. For lapsed flight reviews, ... I may have to re-think going the new route.
 
The FAA FAQ states as long as the CFI isn't PIC the new medical is adequate, but if they are PIC it's considered compensation and requires a traditional medical.

I can't seem to get into the FAA web site right now. BUT, the AOPA web site says exactly the opposite! e.g., the new medical is adequate for cfi's, for all types of training, regardless of the "students" medical status.
I need to get a definitive answer here.
 
Bob (and other concerned CFIs) The BasicMed rule allows for student pilot training, getting paid for providing flight instruction, conducting IPCs, etc. Basically all CFI privileges in allowable aircraft.

CFIs receiving compensation for exercising CFI privileges are not per se FLYING for compensation or hire per previous FAA ruling.
Under Sec. V (B)(1) "The Covered Aircraft Is Carrying Not More Than 5 Passengers" Paragraphs 3 & 4. (middle of para. 4 addresses $$)
See: https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2016-31602/p-109 and $$:https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2016-31602/p-111

George
 
Last edited:
Bob (and other concerned CFIs) The BasicMed rule allows for student pilot training, getting paid, conducting IPCs, etc. Basically all CFI privileges in allowable aircraft.
See: https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2016-31602/p-109
Under Sec. V (B)(1) "The Covered Aircraft Is Carrying Not More Than 5 Passengers" Paragraphs 3 & 4.
George

How about the last line in the rule? (Taken from the FAA website)
not fly for compensation or hire.
 
How about the last line in the rule? (Taken from the FAA website)
not fly for compensation or hire.

Under a previous interpretation, the FAA ruled that cfi's are paid primarily to teach, not to fly. That ruling was the basis of allowing cfi's to exercise their cfi privileges with a third class medical (or even no medical, if the cfi was not the PIC nor a required crew member (like safety pilot when 'student' was under the hood). I just want to be sure the new med rules have not altered that interpretation.
Edit. George, thank you for the FAA reference. That is what I needed. It says cfi's may use the new rules.
 
Last edited:
Under a previous interpretation, the FAA ruled that cfi's are paid primarily to teach, not to fly. That ruling was the basis of allowing cfi's to exercise their cfi privileges with a third class medical (or even no medical, if the cfi was not the PIC nor a required crew member (like safety pilot when 'student' was under the hood). I just want to be sure the new med rules have not altered that interpretation.

Gotcha, Thanks.
 
The tatoo or scar identification is so they might be able to identify your remains if you crash. I you were a verteran, you'd know that.
 
The tatoo or scar identification is so they might be able to identify your remains if you crash. I you were a verteran, you'd know that.

You don't have to be a veteran to "know" that...I just don't seem to recall my AME (any of them over the years) noting any of this. And really...in this day and age, when was the last time scars and tattoos were used to identify a deceased pilot? (Plus they don't tend to survive post-crash fire-consumed bodies...as morbid a thought as that is...).
 
Scars/Tattoos not noted on Civilian Flight Physical.

You don't have to be a veteran to "know" that...I just don't seem to recall my AME (any of them over the years) noting any of this. And really...in this day and age, when was the last time scars and tattoos were used to identify a deceased pilot? (Plus they don't tend to survive post-crash fire-consumed bodies...as morbid a thought as that is...).

It's not required on a civilian flight physical.
Although anyone who served in Military Aviation definitely had it noted in his/her medical records. It's just part of the process to preliminary identify remains; and faster than DNA analysis-which is final & conclusive.
 
Other issue besides physician reluctance

I just got my class-3 done two weeks ago. I mentioned to the AME that this might be my last one, and he said, 'don't be so sure'. I expressed the concern that physicians that are unfamiliar with flying GA aircraft might be reluctant to sign that statement, and he replied that he had heard that Kaiser and Providence, both large health-care providers in the west, had instructed their doctors not to participate in BasicMed. The AME went on to say that the likely sticking point would be if malpractice insurance underwriters exclude coverage for BasicMed exams.

If this happens, the whole scheme is going to collapse.
 
Back
Top