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Building a RV-4

D

Doyle231

Member
Hi all,

My names james and I'm from Australia. I'm currently an aircraft engineer and hold a PPL and own my own c150. I'm new to the site and have a bunch of questions for you guys on building an rv4. I've always like the rv4 more than the 8 due to its sleek lines, speed and cost. The only thing that makes me worried is the time to build and back seat pax weight carrying capacity, I'm 5-4" and 70 kg so not on the big scale! I consider myself to be in the best possible position to build an aircraft due to working for a large airline. My ideas of and rv4 will be Sam James cowls, fastback, io-320 with b/a prop, sky view with a/p etc and squeeze every knot I can out of her! I had a brief flight in an rv4 until we had a prop failure, was exciting and fun while it lasted. My mission is locals with the monthly x/c flight. I want a machine that is fun, fast, aerobatic and can carry a 100kg person if ever needed. Am I looking at the right aircraft?

Any help with would be greatly appreciated guys!

James
 
Hi.

First off, welcome to VAF, James, and your choice of RV.

100 kilo's in the back..yes, after you incrementally work up to it because the elevator forces become quite light with an aft CG. Since you're not really a heavyweight, be sure and do CG calcs beforehand. Furthermore, the CG shifts rearward as you burn fuel...another consideration.

I have a fair amount of -4 time with a 180 pounder (90 kg?) back there.

Best,
 
Hello James,

I guess its all boils down to time vs money.
My RV7A was built over a 6 year period, in just over 1600 hrs. For a first time builder, at a guess a RV4 will be in the 2000Hr range, as most of it in not pre-punched, Only the wings are pre-punched, so this helps you here, the RV8 is all pre-punched, this will save you a bunch of time ! and only another 5k.
I seen here on VAF today a flying rv4 forsale for around $45K USD, I dont think I could build one for that price, its a great price !
Remember to get items to Australia ( kit from Vans ) look at 10% gst AND 10% shipping costs. It soon adds up.
Get in contact with your local SAAA chapter they will give you lots of help.
PM me anytime.
 
You are in a good position.......... Install some strong clasps on your lunch box........................:D
 
I have just about finished an RV4 build near gladstone Qld. Time taken under 1300hrs and I wasn't hurrying. Cost around A$55000.
As far as carrying a 100kg passenger, I have just put the numbers into my W and B worksheet and I would be within Cof G by about 1". No doubt you would be a different weight, but I don't think I could load mine out of Cof G unless Iwas over 1500lbs total weight.
If you go ahead let me know 0749750209 as I go through Wagga to visit my daughter sometimes.
Ian Borg
 
RV-4 BUILD

Hi James,
I Was Looking At Buying a Kit Building Also . But as an Aircraft Engineer Like Yourself Decided That I Would Get Sick Of Working On Aircraft Every Day And Looked For A Flying One Or Almost Completed Project. I ended up Buying a Flying RV-4 From S/E Queensland Which Needed Some TLC. I Flew it For A Bit Then Decided A Full Strip And Refurb Was In Order Mind You It Has Taken About 10 Months Partime Doing So But I am Reassembling Now And Hope To Have It Flying Within The Next 2 Months. If I Had Bought Kit I Would Assume I Wouldnt Be Anywhere Near Finished And Probably Divorced. The Plane Cost Me $40000 And I have Spent About Approx $5,500 Including Paint A Garmin 795 GPS And A MGL Radio. I Have A Friend Who Has Just Imported A RV-6 From The States Which Is On The Ship Halfway Here . He Paid $43,000 For It . Shipping And On The Aussie Register is Approx Around $10,000. Plus Prop Hub Overhaul $3,000 And a couple Of Instruments. There Are Some Built Bargins But Buyer Beware Do Research . Or if to Build it yourself Is What You Want The RV-4 Is an Awesome Fun Bird To Fly Especially Your Stature . I am 5'8 72kgs and Fit Perfect. Good Luck Whichever way you go Cheers From Cairns.
 
Good time to buy.

Incidentally, for you foreigners, if you didn't already know, the USA is in a big economic downturn condition, and the end is not yet in sight.

For buyers, it's an excellent opportunity to find really good buys, especially on -4's and -6's, since the -7 kinda took the shine off the -6. They're both still excellent airplanes and aerobatic...my -6A was as fast as most similarly equipped -7's.

IMO, you can buy either a -4 or -6/-6A for less than you can build.

Best,
 
I just finished building a 4 last August after many years and a whole lot more than 1300 hours. It is a fantastic airplane but it does have CG and weight limitations that are pretty restrictive, especially when it comes to acro with a passenger. The 8 is pre punched and from what I understand, not as limited in CG, GW or interior space. The savings in construction time and headaches is also, I guessing, considerable. The 4 is almost exactly what I want in an airplane, Van is some kinda genius. I have not flown in an 8 and can't say anything about how it flies but it is an improvement if you want to fly with larger passengers or do acro with just about anyone back there.

John F
 
Doyle231 said:
Hi all,
I'm 5-4" and 70 kg so not on the big scale! I consider myself to be in the best possible position to build an aircraft due to working for a large airline. My ideas of and rv4 will be Sam James cowls, fastback, io-320 with b/a prop, sky view with a/p etc and squeeze every knot I can out of her!
Click to expand...

You would fit nicely in one! A 100kg person in the back may be a tight fit. I think I've had close to that in back of mine but it was only for a short trip. ( I usually just size up people rather then ask them their weight :)

the io-320 in mine is good size. And goes plenty fast for me.
 
Cheap planes in the USA don't necessarily eqwuate to cheap imports to Australia. To get it registered here will cost an arm and a leg, by the time you go through all the CASA hoops.
 
RV-4 BUILD

Yen said:
Cheap planes in the USA don't necessarily eqwuate to cheap imports to Australia. To get it registered here will cost an arm and a leg, by the time you go through all the CASA hoops.
Click to expand...



Its Not That Bad , expensive Or Scary Especially Seeing As James Is An Aircraft Engineer. We Have Done It Before And Are About To Do The Same With An RV-6. I Will Let you Know How It All went Next Month. The Prices They Ask Here For An RV It Is Still Way Cheaper To Import.
MICK.
 
Thanks for your help guys, I'm not too keen on buying some one else's work being an a aircraft engineer I've got a particular high standard on workmanship. I've thought about import because its relatively cheap for me in the industry ( my cessna 150 costs oil and a filter for a 100hrly) :) I'm thinking ill order the preview plans to see what's involved?
 
Couldn't agree more mick, Australian aircraft owners live in a fairy tale! It's a joke what they ask for their aircraft! One thing I've learnt in my years of fixing and flying aircraft is that they are nothing more than a used car that happens to leave the ground!!
 
Hi James, the good thing about building it yourself is that you can also work/fix it yourself if, you have done the MPC,you can this from SAAA.
If you didn't built it, and its under the experimental cat, then unless you have the correct type endorsement you cant work on it yourself, even if you are an aircraft engineer ( you must have the correct type endorsement )
Also a note for any Australians, Casa has just released a new instrument for us to be able to sign out a maintenance release, CASA inst 146-11 is no longer in use.
 
I built my -4 in 5 years and have about $55k in it, I lost track of the hours. Wish I'd flown one before I built it. During the summer months flying at lower altitude, the heat coming off the firewall makes the inside air hard to breath and my toes get tingly hot. I'm 190 lbs 5' 10" and I'll say it's the most comfortable airplane I've ever been in, but the cockpit is so small, you have to keep any extras (water bottle, map, gps) in the footwells for the rear passenger. If you have a passenger don't plan on bringing anything. Side pockets are ok, but your legs and elbows/ arms are always in contact. Makes me feel claustrophobic. The plans need some updating, but a call to vans always yields a solution. Sometimes on final I imagine it flipping on touch down as it's fairly nose heavy. Fliping, bursting into flames and bar-b-qing me to death as it's impossible to get out in such a scenario. Too much? In the last 3 years it's accumulated 24 hours of mostly miserable flight time. It does climb and cruise like a bat-outa-**** and it's maneuverability is beyond words! But I'll have my RV-grin on the day somebody flies it out of my hangar... for now it's cool to just sit and look at. Wonder if anyone reads these longer drawn out comments.
 
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If youi think the RV4 is small you should try the Corby Starlet. Iv'e been flying a Corby for ten years and the RV4 seems like sitting inside an Olympic pool in comparison.
 
Hi James,
I value my aeroplane and insure it at the prices some might consider a joke. That is what it is worth to me, if someone wants to buy it that is what they will need to pay me.
The fact is these values are also representative of the landed and flyaway cost for a USA import.

If you want an RV in Australia you pretty much are better off building one yourself even in the current climate. It is a big commitment in time but you have lots of support in places like Temora if required. It sounds like you have the skills already so why not go ahead.

The RV-4 is a fantastic aeroplane - and truly not difficult to build. Go visit someone building a glass aeroplane (or any other for that matter) to see how good even the first gen RV kits are to build. The later pre punch kits turn the airframe construction into a doddle.

I plan to be visit a mate in Wagga sometime in the next few months - if you go ahead I will look you up. Keep us posted.
 
Well, I LOVE the -4. I'm 5'9" & weigh 225lbs. I've got some shoulders and admit the plane is cozy. :) Years ago, before the electronics, I would organize charts and flip them into the back as I used them. Pre-planning before a long X-country makes for a more enjoyable flight.

The modern avionics & auto-pilot make X-countries a delight now. Good seats like those from Oregon Aero greatly add to the comfort.

I flew a round trip in 2006 from SAT to Bend, OR packed like a sardine in a Canadair Regional Jet 700. I was absolutely miserable and SWORE I would never ride in one again. I remember berating myself for NOT having taken the -4. I would have been much more comfortable in it.

I'm not arguing a -4 is as comfortable as a 6,7,9,12, 10 or 14 on X-country trips. It is my favorite airframe for looks, handling and just overall fun & sportiness. It IS what I have, prefer and I make it work for those other flying requirements. Overall, it does a remarkable job. My Spouse likes it but doesn't want to go from TX to OR in it; but she wouldn't be real happy in a -10 or Bonanza either. So we put her in a jet and I enjoy my ride.

As has been posted on this forum so many times before, one has to consider their mission and what the majority of their flying is going to entail. Really think about it. 96% of my flying is just hauling my fat keister and luggage around; and the -4 serves me very well. Your requirements may vary greatly; but, Vans certainly has an airframe for you.

Cheers and good luck on your decision.
 
joeboisselle said:
I built my -4 in 5 years and have about $55k in it, I lost track of the hours. Wish I'd flown one before I built it. During the summer months flying at lower altitude, the heat coming off the firewall makes the inside air hard to breath and my toes get tingly hot. I'm 190 lbs 5' 10" and I'll say it's the most comfortable airplane I've ever been in, but the cockpit is so small, you have to keep any extras (water bottle, map, gps) in the footwells for the rear passenger. If you have a passenger don't plan on bringing anything. Side pockets are ok, but your legs and elbows/ arms are always in contact. Makes me feel claustrophobic. The plans need some updating, but a call to vans always yields a solution. Sometimes on final I imagine it flipping on touch down as it's fairly nose heavy. Fliping, bursting into flames and bar-b-qing me to death as it's impossible to get out in such a scenario. Too much? In the last 3 years it's accumulated 24 hours of mostly miserable flight time. It does climb and cruise like a bat-outa-**** and it's maneuverability is beyond words! But I'll have my RV-grin on the day somebody flies it out of my hangar... for now it's cool to just sit and look at. Wonder if anyone reads these longer drawn out comments.
Click to expand...

Joe, I always like reading comments different from others, since this way one can get exact limits of the airplane. I am building a -4 and built a -9A which I currently fly. I must say that the -9 is a very good airplane. No comparison with Aero Club airplanes. But I feel that it starts to give me enough sensations when I fly solo and with low gas. Maybe I built it slightly over-weight (IFR instrumentation...; 1145 lbs.) and selected a wrong propeller (Hartzell C/S; if I had to do it again maybe I will buy a lighter MT C/S). It has also a slightly fore C/G, due to the propeller and other stuff. Good machine for X-country (not excellent, since with a medium passenger handling charts is not as practical as with a Cessna 172 and picking up stuff from the baggage area often gives me cramps on my arm). Not excellent for sunday "sporty" trips. That's why I am building the -4. I will keep the -9 for middle-range & wife travels and the -4 just for fun. As for the -9A, I didn't test the -4 before building, but I am rather convinced it should fit the mission.
 
comfort

I fly my -4 to and from Florida from Eastern Canada every winter (1100 miles), sometimes alone, sometimes with a pax. No complaints.
The heater comes into play sometimes and is ok down to about +2C if you are fairly well dressed.
More of an issue for me is the Florida heat while taxiing. If the temp is above about 22C, its gets pretty warm in that little greenhouse. Cracking the canopy helps.
I am 5'11 and about 180 and find the cockpit comfortable except when folding maps which I don't do anymore since I have and Ipad mini with moving map (SkyCharts). Love that BTW.
I did fly in a Sonex several years ago and didn't care for the overlapping shoulders.
:)
 
Thanks for the info guys, would any of you say that the rv4 and fleet for that matter is for those with 100's of hours and a very skilled pilots?
 
My two cents

Doyle231 said:
Thanks for the info guys, would any of you say that the rv4 and fleet for that matter is for those with 100's of hours and a very skilled pilots?
Click to expand...

Doyle, my experience is that RVs are the most "quirk free", if you will, airplanes you are going to come across. My thoughts are, the biggest problem a pilot coming from a low speed trainer has is adjusting to the speed difference. One has to think AHEAD of the aircraft. These puppies will move.

But as far as handling characteristics, the RVs are just beautiful. If you get to fly an RV, I strongly urge you to first explore its SLOW FLIGHT characteristics. That is where you will learn about the plane. They want to go fast and that doesn't take much skill (unless you are racing, of course).

Common sense and practical airmanship will put you in good stead. But, that applies to all aircraft. I hope this helps you.

Cheers and I hope you get your RV, :)
 
Look up Graham White, he is instructing with the airline training organisation on your airfield. He owns an RV-4 himself and is a gentleman and superb instructor. I'm sure he would give you very helpful advice.
 
Doug, I know Graham quite well, I was an engineer for AAPA while he worked there and have flow in his rv4 until the prop failed:eek: graham has since left tho, ill be in touch with him for further training as I don't think there are many instructors like him! One very experienced pilot
 
Thanks dealfair. I appreciate your helpful advice! Slow speed flight will be needed as I currently own a c150. Talk bout going from a turtle to a rabbit.
 
joeboisselle said:
... and I'll say it's the most comfortable airplane I've ever been in, but the cockpit is so small ... for now it's cool to just sit and look at ... Wonder if anyone reads these longer drawn out comments.
Click to expand...

Fascinating Post, Yes Joe, I read every word! After following VAF for two years I'm learning new things about the RV4 through a number of recent threads. Of course builder choices and actions can create huge variations in performance and perceptions.

Is "the most comfortable airplane" a typo or sarcasm?

Thanks for explaining your experiences!

Carl
 
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