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Thinking of selling out..............

Chappyd

Well Known Member
Not sure if I'm looking for advice or not. I'm about 3 years into my -7. I'm at the point of getting really close to finishing. I could have flown next year for sure if -. The big if. My wife came to me this week and asked for a trial separation. Things have been sliding downhill for a while anyway. In my mind, it's over. If I move out, I won't move back. When we married 7 years ago, I sold my house and moved into hers "for the kids". In hindsight, it was a huge error.

My plane is still here in the shop. I've been on a waiting list for hangers for over 3 years. When I leave the house everything is coming with me. That means I need space for the plane. I also have a dog. So I'm looking at a house this morning, about 1100 sq' of living space, and lots of shop space. It's only 1 1/2 miles from where I am now. That's important because the closer I am, the easier it will be to maintain the relationship I have with my step kids. Real estate is cheap now. I have a decent job. It costs me about 15% of my net income just to own my non flying plane. My expenses will rise signifigantly on my own. I can afford it- but I could also use that money to provide myself a little greater financial security, and I'm not getting any younger. (52)

Part of me wants the burden of owning and owing to be lifted. I haven't flown since I sold my Mooney in 04/07 except for 2 rides. The local airport used to be a beehive of activity on the weekends, and was a great place to hang out. Since the gas went through the roof, and the economy tanked, it's been a ghost town. ( But I still can't get a hanger!!) I can always get another plane. Part of me says just hang on to it, I'll lose all the time I put into it, plus It's the plane I wanted. I'm sure I'll lose a good chunk of change as well, probably 20K if I sell it as is.

Whats a -7 worth at this point-
Airframe complete except for windshield (it's a slider) and front deck riveting.
IO-360 180hp, Hartzell cs prop. Nice panel 2 comms, 1 nav wa Garmin CDI
All the wiring is complete
Everything is new, and I've got about 76-80K invested.
I've had it looked at 4 times during the build by EAA techs, and comments are "Excellent Workmanship"
I hosted a chapter meeting here about a year or so ago, and heard nothing negative.

Chappyd <---- bummin' out this am. :(
 
Dave, I feel your pain. Tough choice to make. The problem with selling at this point is with nice flying 7s going for mid 60s to 70s you will probably take a real beating selling it now. If at all possible I would keep it and finish it. Working in the shop is a lot more theraputic than sitting in front of the tube or the bar scene. Don
 
my take

Hi Dave,

First, I'd agree with what Don said. Your outlook may not look good now, but in a year or two, things may look entirely different, and you may regret selling it at a large loss, which is pretty much the only way you can sell it.

The key to what you can get for your unfinished plane is based on what people are able to get for flying planes. I'm not sure about good flying -7s in the mid-60s (unless the market has dropped even more in the last few months), but I'd say you can get one in the mid-70s and up.

I went through a similar situation recently, although for different reasons, so I have recent first hand experience with the process. I had my ~80% complete -7A advertised for $55k, based on just the cost of the viable components - no labor. It included, but the price did not include any value for, the Subaru engine and the BMA EFIS/One. No takers.

I then dropped the price to $45K. I got a couple inquiries, one of which pointed out that nice flying -6As could be had for $55K. I then decided that the differential between a flying plane and a non-flying one had to be more than $10k to entice a buyer, so I dropped the price again to $40. I ended up selling it for $38.5k, about a $70K loss just on the engine and BMA EFIS alone, and a loss of about 8 years of painstaking labor.

Another key factor is that good flying -6s can be had in the mid 50s, perhaps as low as $50k, and there are some performance and features differences between a 6 and a 7, but not a whole lot. IMHO, the -6s represent an undervalued market right now, which is why I bought a flying -6A instead of paying what at the time (late summer/early fall) was at least $20k more for a -7A.

Your project doesn't have the engine and EFIS negatives that mine did, so you should be able to get more for yours than I got for mine, but it's still going to be based much more on the price of flying planes, rather than what you have in it.

So, based on my experiences and the price of available flying planes, I'd say the most you can get for your unfinished project would be in the neighborhood of $45-50k.

To avoid the loss and possible regret, my recommendation would be to try as hard as you can to hold on to your project, and see if the outlook isn't better in a year or two. You don't have the motivation-killing engine and EFIS situation I did. Even if you still want to sell in a year or two, perhaps the market will be better then - it seems to be at rock bottom right now.

HTH,
brian
 
I agree with the other replys

Hang in there Dave!
Involve yourself into completing the airplane.
I've read that a flying airplane is worth 20k more than one "almost complete".
That is reason enough there. I don't think you'll want to sell it once you fly it:D

Things will get better for you.

Mark
 
Hang on to it for a while and see how things turn out. If that won't work and you need the money, consider selling just the engine and prop. You should get your money, maybe more, out of them and you won't lose all that time if you continue to build later. In this market you will get almost as much from the engine and prop as the whole project. You could also have a potental liabilty risk selling an airframe you built.
 
You Know The Course -- Deep Down

Dave,

I can really relate to this. I sent you a PM with some details and an offer to go flying. You will make it through this, so don't make any hasty decisions about the plane yet.

I think the bottom line (at least for me) is how much do the project and flying matter to you. If you have always wanted to do build a plane and fly, like I have, then stay the course. If it's a passing fancy then maybe you want to let it go. Either way, you should give it some thought before making the decision.

I would be very upset if I got rid of the project, so despite the temporary setbacks that have forced me to put it on hold for a bit; I will press on.

I could sell mine now and either buy an inexpensive plane outright or a share of a more expensive plane, but I would feel like I am giving up on a dream.

Think about it. You will know which course is appropriate once the emotion is out of the picture.

Best wishes.
 
Thinking of selling out

Dave
Do not do anything hasty. Make the move, get settled into your new routines and then review.
I agree with the other guys that having a project to fill your mind can be very therapeutic.

Good luck
Tim
 
Keep the project

Keep the project... it makes you happy.. unlike other things in your life... it is something that you can turn to and be happy with what you do with it. We call it therapy for a reason. Men marry women hoping they don't change, women marry men hoping to change them. I'm super lucky that mine loves to fly... she's bugging me to get an RV-6 so she can fly too! If she does not want to be involved in flying and involved in your life, get away as fast as you can and find an interested partner. Life is too short to sit around in misery. You sold the house at the right time!!!! Now... you are eligible for buying a house on a private airpark or a house with a "field" and a "barn" wink wink... The time you spend above the earth does not count towards the total time you spend on the earth.... And another good quote from somebody.... Each of us is equally wealthy in that we all have 24 hrs in a day and we don't know how many days we have left. What we do with it is our own decision. Go get em tiger......

" HI.... my name is Dave, I'm a super cool guy, love to hang out and meet and greet with people. I have a great job, a great stepson and a fantastic airplane. Want to go see the sunset from 3,000 feet? It's easy.... I do it all the time.... Welcome to my world young lady......"


Best
Brian
 
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I empathize for you. I divorced three years ago. My project was difficult to focus on but it was a source of stability. Two years is what it took me to recover (emotionally) and I'm glad I didn't give up on the project. There are better times ahead, my Brother.
 
I am with rest that say keep it and finish it. You will probably have some alone time and this will keep you focused on something positive.
 
D*** sure don't to lose your wife and your plane KEEP IT! The plane that is!


GOOD LUCK

All men are born equal : if you decide to get married that's your own fault
 
I certainly don't know the specifics of your situation, but I am certain about this one thing. No RV can satisfy the soul more than a happy marriage. I don't know how much effort has been expended to make things work out between you and your wife, but my advise is to work on saving your marriage first, then proceed with the RV project. No condemnation from me, but just put everything down for a few days, get alone, and count the cost of your various options. I really hope things work out well for you brother.
 
Dave, Make plans now to store the plane,pull the wings if there on ,remove the tail, prop, go out and get a secure rental unit, build racks with big wheels to move it all around. Get a really good pad lock and store the project for right now. If you have to sell something ,sell the avionics first, prop second, engine
third, airframe fourth, tools last ,you will do better breaking her up then selling her whole. Like the others,I don't know your situation , I take it this was not her first divorce so she knows how to do more damage this time around, rental storage can give you the breathing room you need right now.
"The underwear chat" applies here. you really only need a roof over your and the dogs head, three meals a day and a cup of kibble,fresh water ,and clean underwear, everything else is a option. Take care of yourself and your dog,don't let your job suffer, make up your mind now; To live the life you want to live, and make that happen.Good luck!
Bob
 
Thanks

For all the support.

Looking at that house today was super depressing. Some family lost it in this economy. Swingset and pool still in the yard. The house has a 2 car garage that wasn't quite finished. All in all, the house would suit me, but it's just really hard to even think about what is about to happen.

Diamond- I agree with you that no RV can take the place in life of something like a Good relationship. An RV is a "thing", while a relationship is much more than any material item. Unfortunately over the last 7 years it's been a struggle. Counseling has been tried. It really is the end. Today, while I am struggling with my life, my wife is busy decorating the house for Christmas, like it's just another day. My Mom, who's 75, just came home today after a month being treated for a blood infection, It dang near killed her. She was in the ICU for a week, and spent the last 3 weeks in a nursing home taking antibiotics intravenously. I would work a 10 hour day, stop on the way home and see my mom and spend some time talking and hanging with her and then come home exhausted. Not once did my wife even ask how my mom was doing.
The 2 of us simply were not cut from the same cloth.
My step son, who really is my son in my mind, has been very supportive. I spent the afternoon helping him install new radiators on his dirt bike. We talked about what's going on. I am certain he and I will remain very close, in spite of not being in the same house. I am very thankful for that.

So back to the point of keeping or selling the plane. My Mom once told me long ago not to make any decisions when you are in turmoil. Just to let things ride. You can always make a decision in the future, but you can't always undo one. I don't think I have the energy to do the sale thing anyway. I know in the end I will be better off ending this marrige, but it's also going to be a long road till I feel better.

Again, thanks to all of you for your thoughts and comments. It means more than you know.
 
Be positive

Many on this list have been through similar events, including myself. As difficult as it is, try to be positive. My airplane build got me through the roughest parts.

You've got your Mother. Spend as much time as you can with her. Live with no regrets. If the marriage is truly over, try to put it behind you. Your actions and reactions need to be a positive model for the kids. They will benefit and you will benefit.

Keep the plane. It is good therapy.

Good luck. You've got lots of support with the RV family.
 
My divorce came in the year that I was finishing the RV-8. The airplane was not the cause - I simply finally "got" the fact that one person could not make the marriage work if the other didn't want to make the effort as well, and I was tired of trying to hold something together that was never going to work. Fortunately, with no kids involved, it was simply a matter of separating property, and I ended up with both a place to live (our second home - she got the big place with the mortgage) and my new airplane. There is no doubt in my mind that having the project to work on was the best therapy that I could get to keep my mind active, positive, and thinking about the future.

Once the plane was flying, I made a conscious decision to use it to get out, reach out, and find new friends in the aviation world. I made the effort (unusual for me) to go to fly-ins and meet people. Good thing I did, too...or never would have met Louise! You never know what miraculous nuggets you will find if you look positively towards the future. Aviation will expand your world, and maybe even help you to meet the person who truly understands you....

No guarantees, and your mileage may vary. But as has been said by others, don't rush in to dumping your project - you can't do it quickly anyways, so take your time, and don't be afraid to "hide" in the workshop for awhile.

Paul
 
I went through something very similar only about 9 months ago. I too thought about selling the project. It is just best not to make major life decisions during a time of emotional pain you said it yourself. The best thing I did was hang on to the project, it ended up being very good therapy as many people have stated. It is now flying, and it in itself connected me to a lot of great people!! I too had a wife that was very narcissistic. I will keep you in my prayers.
 
thinking of selling

My advice: keep your plane. Get a good lawyer. Let her leave, but don't give away the farm. If she leaves, let her take a towel that's it. You will bounce back way way faster than she will.
 
Keep what makes you happy

That means the airplane and the dog. Make the 'trial separation' a permanent one and don't look back. I have learned that once either partner in a marriage loses respect, it's over - even if there is no divorce, it's over. Look around at your married friends and see how many of them are unhappy. Life is really short - don't give up that which makes you happy. Stress is not good. Reduce your stress.

Get a GOOD LAWYER Monday morning. Many, many of us have gone through the pain. Try to remain 'friends'. Visit the step-kids often. The dog will love you unconditionally until the day that he/she dies. Best of fortune and luck to you.
 
Decisions

Well, I have to make one major decision, and that's where to live.

The 1st thing I am going to do is go see a lawyer, hopefully tomorrow. I'll at least call and set up a consultation. I can't make any decisions without information. Just because it was her house I moved into, She can't arbitrarily make me leave. It has to be my decision. Once a divorce starts the court can do something. I mean, at this point I'm simply not ready to go, but I don't really want to stay either. Welcome to limbo-land.
Sigh.................


The other thing I started to do today was button up the fuselage section of the airplane so I can move it to storage if/when it becomes needed.

And again, thanks for the advice and sharing your stories. It helps a lot.
 
don't sell

Just to put my two cents in. Bryan's advice is stellar; its a terrible time to sell anything right now marketwise and for you to make a big decision like this at a stressful time of your life is not good. Keep the plane. Even if you have to store it for years someday this will all work its way out and you will be happy you didnt take a major financial beating by selling now.
 
Keep It

My final inspection was completed two weeks before my (ex)-wife moved out. For a few reasons I ended up waiting 4 months to complete the first flight. 10 months and 100 hours later, I am very happy.

If you can afford it - keep it.

Paul

RV-8
 
I say keep it as well. You will have something to stay focused on and if the step-son is riding dirtbikes now....I imagine he will be flying your new -7 with you someday too.
 
This Divorce Thing...

...seems to have struck a chord with many of us.

I'm inspired to share a bit of my own story, in light of what I learned from it. I was building a -4 in the early '90's while struggling with an increasingly unhappy marriage. The maintenance and repair of the relationship always seemed to require more of my time and attention, and progress on the airplane was slow. When a crisis came in the relationship I agreed to sell the project and most of the tools. Mistake.

The divorce was protracted, painful and expensive. Sorry, but there's no denying that it's a difficult experience, and it can take quite a while to rebuild one's life and identity.

The ensueing years saw no decrease in my life-long desire to build and fly my own airplane, but circumstanes didn't allow it. In fact, I basically gave up on that dream, and tried to find other hobbies and interests to fill the void. Some of them were even interesting - until Sport Aviation came every month and I was reminded of what I was missing.

Two years ago I met a wonderful woman. At some point I described my former crazy ambition to build a plane. "Let's do it", she replied. To make a long story short, she drywalled and wired the garage while I brought home our new RV-6 project in a UHaul.

The theme of this post is the preservation and maintenance of your dreams. Building an airplane was important to me, but I let it slip beyond my reach for many unfullfilling years. Now, with a wonderful supportive partner, I am enjoying life more than ever. I certainly can't give relationship advice, but I have never regretted a single rivet.

Rob
 
Been there, done that.

I have to say that my airplane project was just about the one thing that kept me from going insane when she filed for divorce. When I wasn't blitheringly drunk on the couch cussing at her, I was in the garage pounding rivets and cussing at her. It didn't take long until there were fewer drunk days and more building days, and I can proudly point to the entire fuselage section now and call it "Recovery from Unusual Attitude".

Everyone is different, but I needed my project to help me get my head right - and it certainly made for some accelerated build time for a few months.
 
I would like to point out that the airplane bag-o-parts is much less attractive to her and her lawyer than a wad of cash. A financial affidavit will be required. Something to consider.

I went through a divorce and bankruptcy during my build (simultaneously). The bankruptcy judges eyes lit up when she saw "airplane" on the assets list. I was prepared for that and had a photo of the "canoe" and bag of parts (no engine). She rapidy lost her enthusiasm and I got to keep it.

As others have said, when I finally got it out of storage and into a hangar, working on it was quite theraputic.

Oh and keep a daily journal. At some point you will question your memory and sanity. Having that record helps in a lot of ways, including the legal process.

Good luck
 
Rethink

Dave,
In any decision making process the first option is to do nothing. With that said, would it be possible to, and I think one of the other comments mentioned, find a storage place to house it for a while. Get your marriage issue in order, reguardless what the outcome, then revisit the plane sell or keep when emotions are not so high. I am actually going through the same thing but found working on the plane and being out at the field was therapeutic. I do wish you the best. Hang in there. Things have a way of working out.

Regards,

Tim Nash RV-10
 
Thanks again for the support. I am seeing a lawyer Monday. After talking with them and getting some advice and information, I'll decide on a course of action. After getting past the initial shock of the separation thing, I think I am just going to stay here, and make a counteroffer- give counseling another shot or just divorce. If we get divorced, then I will move. I'm leaning towards divorce though. I'm ready to get away from her and move on.
She's very good at Passive emotional abuse. I can't think of the proper term, but it's like being mean with a smile on your face.

BTW, the plane has nothing to do with the relationship going south.

Happy Thanksgiving to you all.
 
I would like to point out that the airplane bag-o-parts is much less attractive to her and her lawyer than a wad of cash. A financial affidavit will be required. Something to consider.

I went through a divorce and bankruptcy during my build (simultaneously). The bankruptcy judges eyes lit up when she saw "airplane" on the assets list. I was prepared for that and had a photo of the "canoe" and bag of parts (no engine). She rapidy lost her enthusiasm and I got to keep it.

This is a VERY GOOD REASON to delay your airworthiness inspection until AFTER you are sure that the marital status question is settled - one way or the other. A non-airworthy homebuilt is just a pile of metal with more liability than asset. The pink slip all of a sudden makes it worth fighting over. My divorce (June last year) went along those lines - the judge definitely had his attention focused over the use of the word "airplane" under our joint assets list - until he saw the photos I brought for just exactly that reason. I was just at the very beginning of the fuselage at that point, and he quickly moved on to other tangible assets. I had no trouble keeping my project.
 
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