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Airport use (offroad vehicles on the ramp)

R

RV Jerry

Well Known Member
I would like opinions on what people do on ramps in front of hangers,this afternoon I was working in my hanger enjoying a nice quiet afternoon of building when one of my hanger neighbors showed up with his giant motor home and trailer ,he parked on ramp ,unloaded his trailer of several offroad motorcycles and quads then cut his two young children loose on them ( 6-8 years old) for the next three hours they ran up and down ramp.
My nice quiet afternoon was shot .
Do you think I'm out of line letting this bother me?
this airport is one of calif. highest use G/A airports .
In my opinion this is not just a nuisance but a safety issue.
If you agree how do you think I should handle this with out making enemys
Regards.
 
RV Jerry said:
In my opinion this is not just a nuisance but a safety issue.
If you agree how do you think I should handle this with out making enemys
Regards.
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Maybe you could contact the airport manager and relate the situation without using any names.
Nobody needs to make enemies but there is no excuse for the lack of consideration.
 
A quiet afternoon? At an airport? No.
But was this a safety issue? Absolutely. If you're not up to, or get no reasonable response from, talking with the father, a call to the airport manager is in order. Turning props and kids don't mix well.
 
Those are off road machines with off road operators. While an airport isn't "on road" it's certainly not off road either. I would talk to the dad with the full expectation that he would be understanding and courteous and only take it to other authorities if he wasn't.

Tim
 
:eek:
That is completely out of line not to mention extremely dangerous. I know my airport (AVL) would never stand for anything like that. You would think there would be a lot more professionalism and courtesy from your hanger neighbor.

Definitely report the issue to management.

Jason
 
It all goes bad!

Had similar situation at our airport a couple years ago. A long time tenant and airport employee often let his teenage kid ride a big, fast go-kart around the property and hangars...everyone warned of the impending mishap, and it finally happened. He lost control, drove straight into a Piper Seneca that was in a T-hangar, wedging the Kart between the fuselage and right engine all the way up to the leading edge. Could have killed him if he hit the nose straight on. That was just the beginning, as it put the airport insurance holder on high alert, though a claim wasn't filed, and we though we might become victims of the "cant do anything at this airport" like so many others. I would immediately get a group together and say something to him. Just imagine one of them running into a plane with a prop turning.
 
fixnflyguy said:
Just imagine one of them running into a plane with a prop turning.
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Which is a very real possibility...kid on an ATV or dirt bike comes around a corner and an airplane is on the other side, kid panics a bit and hits the gas and not the brake, or just loses control of the vehicle...

This also highlights the need for pilots to *slow down* while taxiing, especially when approaching corners at the ends of alleyways, etc. I've seen far too many pilots taxiing at a pretty good clip down an alleyway and make the turn at the end without ever slowing down. What's the hurry?

Remember...there might be idiot kids riding ATVs around on the field, and nobody wants to kill one just because they're in a hurry to get to the runway.

That said...yeah, goofing around on a tarmac is a really bad idea. Have a chat with the airport manager.
 
Damm kids . . . "GET OFF MY TARMAC!"

angry-old-man-smiley-emoticon.gif
 
Definitely a safety issue

Happens all the time at our airport here in the southeast corner of Wisconsin. You can talk to these people till you're blue in the face and it does no good. Many times the adult allowing the dangerous conduct doesn't even have an aircraft in the hanger that is full of his toys. It's obvious they feel the ramp area, and in our case taxiway also, is their own personal playground. Someone is going to be hurt or killed, and then these idiots will start the law suits...
 
A casual conversation with the airport manager about liability coverage for ATVs operated by minors should light the fire. Don't worry about "enemies" do what needs to be done. It won't fix itself.
 
Or...

...do nothing unless there was an imminent issue.

I used to get concerned when I saw that stuff, too - but then I realized that pretty much every argument that could be made about "dangerous" ATVs and such running around the airport can be made about "dangerous" homebuilt airplanes (made by amateurs, no less - the FAA said so!) flying over the nearby houses, schools, and orphanages.
 
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Safety

Sounds like the noise is the real concern. Fouled up your quiet day. Sounds like the people who live near the airport then complain about the noise. Hmmm live and let live if it is not a real safety issue and they know airplanes have fun. I love Airplane noise. Some like other toys let em be. We have kids that live on the airport and ride all kinds of stuff bikes motorcycles atvs. They were raised around airplanes and know to stop when aircraft are around. Don't be the old grumpy guy who ruins all the fun:(. Remember there are people who want to ruin your fun too. :)
 
I have a m/c in my hangar. I sometimes use it to do my "social butterfly" stuff around the airport. I do hope that if anyone is bothered by it that they would come and speak with me first, rather than go to the "authorities" on the airport.
 
I'd think the first step would be a conversation with the offender.

If we run to the authorities solve all our problems are we surprised when the solutions imposed by the authorities affect us in ways undesirable in the future.
 
flynwest said:
Sounds like the noise is the real concern. Fouled up your quiet day. Sounds like the people who live near the airport then complain about the noise. Hmmm live and let live if it is not a real safety issue and they know airplanes have fun. I love Airplane noise. Some like other toys let em be. We have kids that live on the airport and ride all kinds of stuff bikes motorcycles atvs. They were raised around airplanes and know to stop when aircraft are around. Don't be the old grumpy guy who ruins all the fun:(. Remember there are people who want to ruin your fun too. :)
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I agree with you. Probably I am biased by the fact that I grew up on an airport and we kids (yes there were lots of us) did all kinds of none aviation related stuff while our parents had fun in the air. I actually believe the fact that we have less kids hanging out at airports has a lot to do with the fact that we have fewer young pilots.... .

Also agree on the noise front. An airport is one of the few places were noise is allowed would be kind of hypocritical to say one noise is better then the other.

Also wondering what would happen if you did complain to the airport manager. Maybe he will forbid everything which is not an airworthy and insured airplane to use the tarmac. Then good luck testing your engine before you got your airworthiness certificate as at that point (legally) a motorcycle is not much different from your RV except your RV is more dangerous (has propeller) and likely not insured for this kinds of activity.

If I really saw a dangerous behavior I would talk to the children and if it persists the parents about the behavior in particular but wouldn't ask them to stop altogether.
 
We sure are getting up tight in this country. You don't like it, be a man and go talk to their dad. And why are you asking us?
 
Im askiking this forum to get a general feeling on the situation so I get an opinion on If I'm being to critical and hopefuly avoid being a grummpy old man.
propably not much diffrent than someone asking for opinons on such things as paint color
 
RV Jerry said:
Im askiking this forum to get a general feeling on the situation so I get an opinion on If I'm being to critical and hopefuly avoid being a grummpy old man.
propably not much diffrent than someone asking for opinons on such things as paint color
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I agree 100%, but unfortunately if this father brought his kids there, I doubt he will see the point. If I thought there was a 5% chance he would, I would speak to him directly. If your conversation goes south with him and then you contact the airport he will always know who disagree's with his point of view.
 
Agree with this. If the father cared at all, he wouldn't have put them out there on his own. He most likely won't care what your opinion of the matter is.

I would probably bring it up with airport management, however. Maybe they don't care either, but it's probably in everyone's best interest that they're informed about it.

Ron B. said:
I agree 100%, but unfortunately if this father brought his kids there, I doubt he will see the point. If I thought there was a 5% chance he would, I would speak to him directly. If your conversation goes south with him and then you contact the airport he will always know who disagree's with his point of view.
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collecting opinions

Around here, if I paid $150,000 for a hangar, I expect some control or influence about the activities that affect me.

noise; airplanes taxi by, then leave.
noise for 10 seconds.
kids on quads; noise all day....no comparison, like your neighbor tuning up his dirt bike for an hour in his garage Sunday morning.
priceless.

safety; if I was taxiing toward my hangar, and these kids come down the taxiway, I would have to shutdown immediately, as I have NO idea where the l'il darlins' are headed...at any speed. I don't expect minors operating motorized vehicles on a taxiway. Before I start up again, as a pilot, I am being irresponsible if I don't ensure they are parked, clear of the aircraft maneuvering area.

Approaching the father? I understand your concern in not making an enemy, but that's the price of safety.
Who wants to be friends with an idiot like this?
 
flyboy1963 said:
Around here, if I paid $150,000 for a hangar, I expect some control or influence about the activities that affect me.

noise; airplanes taxi by, then leave.
noise for 10 seconds.
kids on quads; noise all day....no comparison, like your neighbor tuning up his dirt bike for an hour in his garage Sunday morning.
priceless.

safety; if I was taxiing toward my hangar, and these kids come down the taxiway, I would have to shutdown immediately, as I have NO idea where the l'il darlins' are headed...at any speed. I don't expect minors operating motorized vehicles on a taxiway. Before I start up again, as a pilot, I am being irresponsible if I don't ensure they are parked, clear of the aircraft maneuvering area.

Approaching the father? I understand your concern in not making an enemy, but that's the price of safety.
Who wants to be friends with an idiot like this?
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Amen to all of what has been said here...
 
I mispoke about noise being the main issus ,I welcome more avaition noise, there is no comparison listening to an aircraft and a high high reving two stroke motor. at my airport there is more and more non aviation people renting hangars because its cheaper than industrial units ,these hangars are privately owned so I don't know how much control the county has, at any rate I want to be cautious so big brother doesn't get involved and implement unwanted controls for hangers
 
Jerry,

Does this happen often or was this a one time(so far) occurrence? Does this guy even own an airplane? I know at the airport close to me, you can not own/rent a hangar without having at least one airworthy aircraft registered in your name. So that excludes a first time builder with no other aircraft. I think that's a little strict but it does keep out the rif-raff.

There was a post, awhile back, about some FAA legislation in the works that would prevent ALL non-aviation activities at public airports and the hangars. I remember some worrying about it preventing EA building as well.

If this is a weekly or more issue, yea I'd probably want to do something about it. Once a month or less... eh. Invite them over, show them your build and educate them.
 
RV Jerry said:
I mispoke about noise being the main issus ,I welcome more avaition noise, there is no comparison listening to an aircraft and a high high reving two stroke motor. at my airport there is more and more non aviation people renting hangars because its cheaper than industrial units ,these hangars are privately owned so I don't know how much control the county has, at any rate I want to be cautious so big brother doesn't get involved and implement unwanted controls for hangers
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So you would rather see your airport turned into a cheap rental storage yard for non aviation stuff than to have the FAA mandated aviation only related storage??? and a nice place to spend your day building or working on your plane? Just asking. Larry
 
flynwest said:
<snip>...We have kids that live on the airport and ride all kinds of stuff bikes motorcycles atvs. They were raised around airplanes and know to stop when aircraft are around. <snip>
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Jerry,
You are familiar with my airport at Rosamond; right next to miles and miles of desert perfect for riding. I quote the above as we too had (and still have) kids who only know life as born & raised 'living on an airport' with a hangar in the backyard.

They are respectful of the planes (as mentioned) above, however, their PILOT parents taught them the taxiway is only used for (respectfully) getting to/from the nearby desert.

In your case, I have to ask if the Father is even a pilot....embarrassing for him if he is...unbelievably SAFETY short-sighted also come to mind!?!

Sure...you can talk to the manager...however...I'd recommend that you walk over there to discuss this with him ALONG WITH SEVERAL OF YOU HANGAR NEIGHBORS who (I'm sure) feel the same way you do.

That should be more than enough 'peer pressure' to get him to change his ways, and if not, then you have a real LOSER hangar neighbor in your midst.

It's impossible to be reasonable with an unreasonable person :mad: Good Luck, Rosie
 
enielsen said:
There was a post, awhile back, about some FAA legislation in the works that would prevent ALL non-aviation activities at public airports and the hangars. I remember some worrying about it preventing EA building as well.
Click to expand...

That's not quite what it was...it's not "in the works", it's the way it's (theoretically) always been for any airport that accepted federal money, under the Grant Assurances. And it doesn't preclude all non-aviation activity, but allows some non-aviation stuff provided certain things hold true.

The debate about building being "aviation-related" was hashed out, with EAA and others *hopefully* continuing to fight for a change to FAA's "interpretation" of the rules in this new statement of the pre-existing policy.
 
In response to previous post this is not a one time occurance the parents I don't believe are pilots but the hanger and airplane belong to thier father who must approve because he has been present on occaision,I love to see kids get involved at airports, but airplanes are defintely not these kids interest. The more I .think about it I feel this invites the same behaviour from others
 
RV Jerry said:
In response to previous post this is not a one time occurance the parents I don't believe are pilots but the hanger and airplane belong to thier father who must approve because he has been present on occaision,I love to see kids get involved at airports, but airplanes are defintely not these kids interest. The more I .think about it I feel this invites the same behaviour from others
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Jerry, You sound like a real nice guy. But IMHO you might consider not being so politically correct and worry more about your flying friends and the future of the airport. If this was happening at my airport, I would have already made the phone call and hope you had my back, if not so be it. Larry
 
flyboy1963 said:
Around here, if I paid $150,000 for a hangar, I expect some control or influence about the activities that affect me.

noise; airplanes taxi by, then leave.
noise for 10 seconds.
kids on quads; noise all day....no comparison, like your neighbor tuning up his dirt bike for an hour in his garage Sunday morning.
priceless.

safety; if I was taxiing toward my hangar, and these kids come down the taxiway, I would have to shutdown immediately, as I have NO idea where the l'il darlins' are headed...at any speed. I don't expect minors operating motorized vehicles on a taxiway. Before I start up again, as a pilot, I am being irresponsible if I don't ensure they are parked, clear of the aircraft maneuvering area.

Approaching the father? I understand your concern in not making an enemy, but that's the price of safety.
Who wants to be friends with an idiot like this?
Click to expand...

Your take...is dead on. Young kids (with parental supervision) are always welcome. Running around helter scelter.....no way! Can't blame the kids; the parents (wether they agree or not) need to be told take this behavior elsewhere.

Wouldn't really care if they knew "I" was the one objecting to their kids running around on their off road machines...
 
I have a Polaris Ranger SxS (UTV), it is registered, and carries motor vehicle insurance. I drive it around the airport, as well as the streets in Arizona.

Most airports require vehicle insurance, to get gate access.

A valid drivers license is required, to operate any motor vehicle on public land, unless posted otherwise.

Take a video of the kids riding, and email it to the airport manager.

If all else fails, buy a really loud dirt bike, and keep it ready at the hangar. As soon as they start unloading the bikes, you show up in front of their hangar, and race the engine until they leave. They will feel threaten by your behavior, just like you were threaten by theirs. They will get the point, and never come back.
 
#N72CR said:
If all else fails, buy a really loud dirt bike, and keep it ready at the hangar. As soon as they start unloading the bikes, you show up in front of their hangar, and race the engine until they leave. They will feel threaten by your behavior, just like you were threaten by theirs. They will get the point, and never come back.
Click to expand...

Better yet, an airplane...do some full-power static run-ups. :)
 
RV Jerry said:
Do you think I'm out of line letting this bother me?
this airport is one of calif. highest use G/A airports .
In my opinion this is not just a nuisance but a safety issue.
Click to expand...
What is the airport policy on it? If the landlord says its ok then its ok.

If you agree how do you think I should handle this with out making enemys
Click to expand...
Get used to it or move. Those are your only options which are guaranteed not to make enemies.
 
Flew up to work on the new hangar yesterday. No kids zooming around, but apparently Cabin Creek Landing has a polar bear. Nice friendly sort, he was....but he wandered out onto the runway after I back taxi'd.

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6661ce5dc3a240c87775745821823aa9_zpsba571ef8.jpg


I sent a polite email to all the Homeowners reminding them the hazards of loose pets and other creatures. No ranting or even finger pointing....yet.
 
LARCO said:
So you would rather see your airport turned into a cheap rental storage yard for non aviation stuff than to have the FAA mandated aviation only related storage??? and a nice place to spend your day building or working on your plane? Just asking. Larry
Click to expand...


If the FAA does the mandating I would not be surprised if they "mandate" usage that gets way too specific.
I have a dream, a dream that one day I will own my own hangar and be free to have my or anyone else's aircraft inside, and set up my little area inside said hangar to work on whatever I please.
 
Animals on airports...

Some years back, one of our airport regulars thought the pilot should pay $6000 in vet bills after his cat tossed a leg in a spinning prop... local concensus was that the cat owner should pay for the propstrike inspection.
 
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