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Oshkosh - new procedure in Homebuilt Camping

Alton beat me to it, but thanks. That shows it perfectly.

BTW- if anyone does break off a doggy chain corkscrew, please please please let one of us know. We have tools to remove it and it would easily take out a tire, either and airplane or a scooter, neither of which would make anyone's day.
 
corkscrew tiedowns

Jeff, will we be allowed to use titanium corkscrew tiedowns this year? I've used mine for a decade now but last year in HBC I was told they weren't allowed any more, and I had to go rent some straight stakes made from welding rod that Homebuilt Headquarters had on hand. The stakes pulled out more easily than the corkscrews, but apparently they were deemed 'better' by someone in charge.

Trying to figure out if I need to buy or build some new tiedowns for the show this year, and if so, what kind is acceptable.

Thanks,
 
Tiedowns

Mark,

That's a simple question that does not have a simple answer. According to the EAA Camping Guide, page 7 (http://www.eaa.org/~/media/files/airventure/planyourtrip/camping/av15_campingguide_8 5x11.pdf)

> ?Dog leash? tiedowns are prohibited.

That rule has been in place for years, but loosely enforced at best. We used to see many more of these, but over time folks have migrated towards better tiedowns like the Claw or the better homemade designs. I don't want to contradict official (if unenforced) EAA policy, but if someone told me I had to forgo my better tie downs and use a (rented) inferior solution, I would have an issue with that. We had a few new volunteers last year and it may have been that one of them was a little overzealous with the rules. I'll be sure that we incorporate that into training this year. If it happens again, I'd point out that they are not "dog leash" tiedowns but purpose-designed titanium aircraft tiedowns.

Were it up to me, EAA would get out of the tie down rental business entirely. Either bring your own or buy some at the show. The rental tie downs (nothing but a piece of welded rebar) are better than nothing, but not by much. Would you want the airplane next to yours tied down with these during a strong storm?
 
Alton beat me to it, but thanks. That shows it perfectly.

BTW- if anyone does break off a doggy chain corkscrew, please please please let one of us know. We have tools to remove it and it would easily take out a tire, either and airplane or a scooter, neither of which would make anyone's day.


I got it out before I left. I was concerned about the same thing.
 
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Surface condition

Does the ground get soft easily in this area? Just wondering if taxiing a nose dragger (7A) is an issue if there is any rain, etc? Obviously "Slosh-Kosh" conditions are not what I am referring to.
 
Does the ground get soft easily in this area? Just wondering if taxiing a nose dragger (7A) is an issue if there is any rain, etc? Obviously "Slosh-Kosh" conditions are not what I am referring to.

We will all require floats if there is another sloshkosh. :p
Last year, which did have a few rain showers along the way, our 6A "sunk" an inch or so. Not really a big deal. We were there for 8 days. We were able to pull with our tow bar and get the plane past where our tires were resting for those 8 days. This year if a lot of rain comes our way and our plane is stuck, we will just ask our neighbor to help push on the wing and get it push out. Don't worry.. we will all be there to help each other. :)
 
We will all require floats if there is another sloshkosh. :p
Last year, which did have a few rain showers along the way, our 6A "sunk" an inch or so. Not really a big deal. We were there for 8 days. We were able to pull with our tow bar and get the plane past where our tires were resting for those 8 days. This year if a lot of rain comes our way and our plane is stuck, we will just ask our neighbor to help push on the wing and get it push out. Don't worry.. we will all be there to help each other. :)

Usually, as John stated, there is plenty of assistance if mud becomes an issue. Getting a group of strangers to help push the aircraft to a hard surface isn't hard to get at OSH. Fortunately, we can taxi on hard surfaces all the way back to HBP/HBC if you land/takeoff on 18/36.

Some folks will bring boards to place underneath the tires to prevent sinking, but you will quickly get the attention of Jeff and his team. Unfortunately, too many folks fail to pick up these boards when they leave and Jeff's team is left to pick them up.
 
The ground in HBC is about the best on the field and handles water quite well. I've said it before and will try again- putting boards under your wheels is really not necessary. If you insist on doing it, that's fine, and we will help you, but please have the common courtesy to pick up after yourself.

Also- boards or not, powering out of your parking spot is not acceptable. You need to pull the plane out by hand and turn it 90deg before starting. Failing to do so will result in tents and all sorts of FOD (like leftover boards) being blown around behind you. Common courtesy again.
 
Mark,

That's a simple question that does not have a simple answer. According to the EAA Camping Guide, page 7 (http://www.eaa.org/~/media/files/airventure/planyourtrip/camping/av15_campingguide_8 5x11.pdf)

> ?Dog leash? tiedowns are prohibited.

Looks like I'll need to replace my tie downs this year, however I could have sworn I bought mine at Oshkosh from a golf cart in HBC one year when I flew in. I had intended to go to the Pavilions and buys some there but did not get the chance. Maybe it was Sun-N-Fun not OSH.
 
It was our first Oshkosh this year. We would have liked to be able to camp close to the HBC area because this is where the builders are. Isn't it possible to reserve a small area for builders that are not yet finished in a corner of the field near the fence? Maybe tents only on a first come first serve basis? Just an idea.

I'm on the fence about tent camping this year or just driving back & forth to Madison. I would definitely camp if there was an area at HBC for builders with no plane. Too late to make this happen?
 
The rental tie downs (nothing but a piece of welded rebar) are better than nothing, but not by much. Would you want the airplane next to yours tied down with these during a strong storm?

And in addition... tie down anchors (regardless what you are using) have to be used properly to get max. performance.
Example- a rebar tie down pounded into the ground directly below the tie down point is not much more than a placebo. If the same is done with a screw in tie down anchor it is not much better.
The anchor should be screwed into the ground at an angle and off set from the tie point on the airplane so that the rope is pulling approx. perpendicular to the axis of the stake or anchor (unless using the claw type tie down or similar... then follow the instructions).

If using the titanium style screw in tie downs, turn the handle so that the closed side it towards the direction of the rope to reduce teh chance of a hard pull bending the handle open.

Every year innocent airplane owners get damage on their airplanes at fly-ins because someone else nearby did a poor job of tying down their.

Don't be one of those people.
 
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Excellent points by Scott. Per the instructions, the Claw should be directly below the attach point on the airplane, not at an angle. If it must be at an angle (tailwheel for example) then the load should be along one of the three arms (rope parallel to the arm) for maximum strength.

I see many Claws improperly installed every year. Incidentally, I often wonder about how many tie downs of various types that "failed" during the Sun n Fun storm a few years ago actually "failed" due to improper installation.
 
I'm on the fence about tent camping this year or just driving back & forth to Madison. I would definitely camp if there was an area at HBC for builders with no plane. Too late to make this happen?

There is no "official" place for this and no plans to make it happen, just not enough room. Your best bet is to find someone you know in HBC and pitch a tent with their plane. The "one tent per plane" rule is very, very loosely enforced in HBC.
 
I'm on the fence about tent camping this year or just driving back & forth to Madison. I would definitely camp if there was an area at HBC for builders with no plane. Too late to make this happen?

Isn't that what Camp Scholler was intended to be? There are builders working on the same aircraft model that camp together. Before I had a flying aircraft, I camped with fellow RV-10 builders in Scholler.

bob
 
Isn't that what Camp Scholler was intended to be? There are builders working on the same aircraft model that camp together. Before I had a flying aircraft, I camped with fellow RV-10 builders in Scholler.

bob

Is there a way to figure out the different group areas in Camp Scholler?
 
Is there a way to figure out the different group areas in Camp Scholler?

Not really, EAA doesn't track what groups organize activities within the camp grounds. I stumbled upon the RV-10 group on the Matronics forum probably 8-10 years ago.

A suggestion would be to post under the appropriate RV model, anyone building or have a RV-X camping at Scholler? Do you mind if I camp next to you? Then make arrangements.
 
Sometimes, I think we're all a bit too "tribal."

Camp Scholler's beauty is it's utter unpredictability. The people you meet who randomly pull up next to you might not even have an RV -- or even heard of an RV let alone the model you might be building -- and yet they might be lifelong friends waiting to happen.

Just let Oshkosh wash over you. It's the only "real" way to do it.
 
Pictures of new showerhouse1

more to follow I will up there this Saturday. :)
The trailer restrooms are also on the way as well as our tent like last year.BBQ grills etc.I'll post when stuff opens so you can plan accordingly.
zldnc8.jpg

Tiny pic seems to be kaput. I tried yesterday & today to upload more pictures
 
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So I found this Christian Industries tie-down kit in the airport trash(!). It is very well made, welded and zinc(?) plated 4130 I think, with a machined point. The kit is very light, 3 pounds, versus my 7 pound Claw kit, (and that is after I replaced the steel nails with 7075 rod, saving about 2lbs).
Would the Christian kit work in Airventure soil? and would it pass muster? (might replace the ropes with something a bit thicker). I like the Claw, but it is a heavy kit.
IMG_1969_zps9d7srruz.jpg
 
Those might be a bit of a challenge of the soil is especially dry, but this year we've had decent rain so it shouldn't be too much trouble. As far as passing muster, don't get too wrapped around that particular axle. There are no official "Tie Down Police" going around the show grounds, although the parking crew will speak to anyone doing something really egregious like using 8" plastic tent stakes as tie downs (it's happened, I have pictures.)

A good rule of thumb is this- would you want the airplane next to yours tied down with them? If so, then you are probably good to go.
 
Thanks Dan for that memory. I was one of the lucky guys who got help lift the biplane off of the Mustang after the storm blew through. Good thing it was light.

Here are a couple of pics snapped on that same day. This was an RV parked in Area 51 not far from where this accident happened. Two of the three tent stakes pulled out and it sort of pivoted around on the 3rd. Fortunately it did not hit any other airplanes. I cropped the images down to protect the owner of this particular RV, though I'm not really sure why. You owe it to your neighbors not to be this guy.

83FA0DD6-B5D6-4B25-869A-921729C6D673.jpg


5141AB01-E2CE-47B0-A5EB-BADB053F7A00.jpg
 
Thanks Dan for that memory. I was one of the lucky guys who got help lift the biplane off of the Mustang after the storm blew through. Good thing it was light.

My EAA Plans built tie downs survived this event which was pretty much a direct hit without any issues at all.

They work great for the OSH ground and my only complaint is how hard they are to get removed on departure day. ;)
 
We were tied down on that same (front) row only about three or four spots away from the carnage. Having had a large sailboat that can get a mind of its own with a tiny human helpless to do anything about taught us well.. Tie that sucker down!

If anyone needs a hammer, my 5# sledge will be available to all.
 
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Mike W,
If you screw those stakes in which I have the same put them in on a slight angle to the tie down point. not in the same direction that the rope is going but almost 90 to the rope to the plane.

I put those in with a metal pipe and put them in all the way to the ring is next to the ground.

Everyone has their favorite... I have see the claw stakes be pulled out if they are installed wrong. But I will say with the hard soil up there those screw stakes will be just fine.

Jack
 
Updates for 2016

Hello all,

For 2016, this procedure will once again be in effect. However, the changes that were made to the grounds in 2015 (see post # 35 for details) have continued in 2016. The practical effect of this is to move the eastern border of Homebuilt Camping even further to the west, as we have gained more space at the southwest end of HBC. That means that a spot in #1 is going to be much further away from the flightline than it was in 2015 by at least a couple hundred yards.

Keep in mind that this procedure applies to early arrivals. Once things get into full swing, there is neither the time nor available space to accommodate everyone's wishes. The exact time of this is hard to predict, but noon on Sunday is in the ballpark.

I look forward to seeing everyone in a couple of weeks. We will have a ready deck for your arrival. Fly safe and READ THE NOTAM.
 
Mike W,
But I will say with the hard soil up there those screw stakes will be just fine.

Jack

Agree, the screw area is very good.

Regarding the soil, it is hard when dry, like Georgia red clay, but when wet it is more like hot modeling clay, quite soft.
 
I never put stakes in vertically -- I put them in at a 45 degree angle so that the rope is perpendicular to the stake. Makes it lots harder to pull out.

I cringe when my neighbors have crappy tie downs, because they can put me at risk. Frankly, I'd welcome tie down enforcement rather than having a plane I can't fly home.

Ed
 
EAA just put out an update to the N40 camping situation which directly impacts the homebuilt camping area. You can see it here:

http://www.eaa.org/en/airventure/eaa-airventure-news-and-multimedia/eaa-airventure-news/eaa-airventure-oshkosh/07-07-2016-aircraft-parking-update-north-40-project-no-problem-for-arriving-oshkosh-aircraft

The graphics shows the new, expanded area of HBC on the southwest corner of the existing HBC area. The areas labeled "GA Parking/ Camping" are for just that, overflow due to the construction in the N40. I've been promised that next year and beyond, that land will be available for homebuilt parking/ camping, which will give us room to grow for the foreseeable future. This is a good thing for HB, long term.
 
I'm curious how they are going to get aircraft in and out of these two new GAC areas. Two gravel roads. At least they were gravel. The other option is through major pedestrian walk way and road well traveled by autos. It appears to be really awkward for any aircraft that want to go in and out during the week.
 
It will be awkward, no doubt, but it beats Fond du Lac. Part of the gravel road has been paved for taxi purposes, and the pedestrians will be re-routed since the area is no longer auto parking.
 
Coffee & showers

Yes..to both. those who missed our updates & Improvements last year will be impressed with the new shower trailers & more. Coffee will be from 6-9 AM and preparedby our excellent staff of HBC volunteers. See you in 2 weeks. I will be departing winder in the wee hours of Tuesday the 12th for OSH to get things ready for all y'all. ;)
 
Yes..to both. those who missed our updates & Improvements last year will be impressed with the new shower trailers & more. Coffee will be from 6-9 AM and preparedby our excellent staff of HBC volunteers. See you in 2 weeks. I will be departing winder in the wee hours of Tuesday the 12th for OSH to get things ready for all y'all. ;)

Great news on the return of the showers! Are the men going to get more than one porcelain throne this year?
 
I haven't been for a few years but problem I found arriving Saturday was a lack of food availability on site. This meant walking for miles to find off site food and blistered feet too early in the show...

Has this been resolved, even with just a few vendors?
 
Hi Ron

Welcome back, I think there will be food available on site as of Saturday morning or possibly even Friday evening. I will find out after I arrive on Tuesday the 12th & post any updates here. C U later, fly safe
 
In years past, before Monday, The Vintage group's Tall Pines Cafe way down by the Ultralights has offered breakfast and lunch for people setting up and early arrivals, then breakfast only starting Monday. Long trek but good.
 
I haven't been for a few years but problem I found arriving Saturday was a lack of food availability on site. This meant walking for miles to find off site food and blistered feet too early in the show...

Has this been resolved, even with just a few vendors?
Actually, it has always been resolved. The home built welcome wagons have always operated for those of us home builders camping. They have a phone number you can get at the registration building. Call them, they come, tell them where you wish to go, easy-peasy. Even without the phone call, just flag one of them down and they will gladly give you a ride to where you need to go. Look for the blue/silver Chrysler minivans with the tops cut off and long bench seats in the back.
 
I haven't been for a few years but problem I found arriving Saturday was a lack of food availability on site. This meant walking for miles to find off site food and blistered feet too early in the show...

Has this been resolved, even with just a few vendors?

That problem left with Zaugs a couple years ago. There are plenty of food vendors open Saturday and Sunday. At least there has been the last two years.
 
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