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What's Been Missing at SnF!

Ironflight

VAF Moderator / Line Boy
Mentor
Well the obvious answer is - experimnetal airplanes! I counted the planes in HBP this morning about 10:30, and it was less than 60 - and six of them were the Eagles' Nest/Teen Flight RV-12s (good work guys!!!). Tons more room out there folks....

But what I really notice is the lack of VAF logo T-shirts and Hats. A couple of years ago at OSH or SnF, you were NEVER out of sight of one - but now they are few and far between. I guess we are seeing the lifetime of these items demonstrated - Doug hasn't been producing them for a couple of years, and we can all be hard on T-shirts and hats. But still....too bad - its a great way to identify one another!

Paul

[ed. Actually you can order all you want at http://www.vansairforce.net/logo.htm. Paragraph five.... dr]
 
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I made it! and this is the T-Shirt I was wearing:



I also checked the SW Radar system and saw "Russia Satellite" inboard amd most likely re-entry to Sun-n-fun early morning tomorrow :D

Fun day! Thunderbirds landed 16:58, they opened the gates at 17:00, airborne by 17:15, landed KAPF 18:00, in the pool drinking a cold beverage by 18:30!

Sure beats 6 hours round trip in a car :cool:
 
Vic, Carol, and I were holding down lawn chairs during the evening air show Wednesday and talking about how empty HBC was. It was surprising...maybe 30, 40 airplanes, 50 tops, end of the second official day, with good weather both days. Where the heck was everyone?
 
Bad weather and work kept me away.

The early part of the week in the Carolinas was BAD and Saturday is supposed to be ugly as well. So, we decided to stay put.

In fact the weather was bad enough that I started on my condition inspection a few weeks early.
 
My flying budget is busted building a hangar. But I did get the Show Special pricing on my HP Door. :)
 
was there Wed, flew GIB in my buddies 8 and we parked in HB. Bugged out after the airshow. Planning to be back tomorrow (driving) so we can catch the night show. But yeah, HB was pretty empty. Mostly RV's.

BTW, take a look at the Zero. The fit and finish is exceptional, especially when compared to the US planes of the same era. Fairings, etc. are really well done, and looking at the huge ailerons, it's no wonder it can turn! Looks like a real pilots plane, but I don't think I'd want to go to war in one!
 
Maybe next year. It is still winter up here! It was 31F when I got up yesterday. Probably a good reason to be at SnF! But, I have BUILDING to do.

Have fun and keep information flowing!
 
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got a little created this year. lost my paper HB parking sheet. viola, only one guy was a little peed off.

great hot wx, lots of =VAF= people, thunderbird NOISE, two days to go. :cool:
 
My wife and I are vacationing in ft Myers. Our -10 is tucked away in a hanger for the next couple of weeks. No way would I fly into that place given the choice to drive. I was there in 2011. Thank god I also drove in that year! It seemed the attendance was about what I had seen in previous years for mid week
 
I tried on Thursday- I was only 30 minutes away at a buddy's Airpark home (near Ft.Myers) burning up my weather slip day on our trip to Bimini. Unfortunately, Thursday was not a good day to fly a Rocket off a grass strip.
 
Scheduling conflicts that could not be avoided.....

But, I'm with you guys in spirit and checking in every few hours.....
It's wet up here in Destin today:(
 
High prices, lack of that welcome feeling...etc.

Best,

I have gone seven or eight years in a row now. It is now almost like airplanes are tolerated, not welcome. Last year in HBC, we had to beg to get the porta-potties serviced and TP provided. I saw almost more non-airplane related vendors than I did airplane related.

The paid for controllers Friday morning, I have seen better. But then, there were too many airplanes with no idea of the procedure. I will post video later of the arrival. A NORDO zodiac decided to land downwind on the active. it was a scramble.
 
SNF

I said I would not ever come back to SNF after the 2011 Tornado, but here I am
In HBC.
I had my butt chewed before I even got out of my RV, a bully was demanding that I buy tied downs. When I told him mine were being shipped to me here. Not a good start.
We have had a good experience otherwise. Home Built Camping really treats us well. There are a lot of War Birds, I like that!
Guess we need to really ck weather, before risking tiieing down at KLAL.
 
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WX

I had been looking forward to flying the -8 to SnF this year since I had not been to it in about 5 years. Almost every day this week here in N. Texas has been thunderstorms. Just did not feel like fighting weather all the way to Florida and back so I stayed in town, went to work and saved the vacation days for another time.
 
Changes

Have been happening over the years, some for the better and some for the worse. There are certainly more airplanes in HBC these days than there are on the line, except probably for Saturday when everyone flies down for the Day. MaryJane and her crew of volunteers in HBC really make it an enjoyable event, with hot meals every night and coffe and drinks for most of the day. It's really nice to be around family and friends during the airshow and be able to talk airplanes.
I've always hated that you can't be with your airplane during the airshow at SNF if parked on the show line. Once we found HBC, we don't even park on the line anymore. The only problem is that it is SO FAR away from the event. It's hard to spend time with new builders who don't even know there are a bunch of wonderful people and friends with fine examples of their airplanes on the OTHER side of the field.
Weather was certainly a factor Friday morning. Some fog banks moved in and it got downright dangerous for planes on the arrival. While listening and watching I really thought someone was going to get hurt before ATC FINALLY realized the Parker Arrival was IFR and they should shut it down. That call should have been made way earlier. When the field finally opened up Lake parker looked like a porcupine on the ADSB view.

Vic
 
I was there Thursday & Friday wearing my VAF hat & I saw many others.

Thursday morning arrivals were hampered by the 2 passing rain cells. I was placed right as I flew in between them. I had the runway all to myself.

Friday, I was in a hold around Lake Parker for 30 minutes before arriving due to IFR over KLAL. There were about 30 in hold & not accepting any more & turned them away. Although, I never did hear them be directed to the secondary hold at Lake Hancock.
These events would deter most from flying in. Locals would have driven in.

The HB(daily transient) was very light on Thursday but much better on Friday. I didn't get a count but there were probably more than 50 RVs. Don't know about HBC.

Both days the weather started out questionable but ended up a beautiful day.
That's Florida weather.

One thing I did notice, the frequency signage taxiing for departure should have been displayed much earlier & twice it was incorrect.
 
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Have been happening over the years, some for the better and some for the worse. There are certainly more airplanes in HBC these days than there are on the line, except probably for Saturday when everyone flies down for the Day. MaryJane and her crew of volunteers in HBC really make it an enjoyable event, with hot meals every night and coffe and drinks for most of the day. It's really nice to be around family and friends during the airshow and be able to talk airplanes.
I've always hated that you can't be with your airplane during the airshow at SNF if parked on the show line. Once we found HBC, we don't even park on the line anymore. The only problem is that it is SO FAR away from the event. It's hard to spend time with new builders who don't even know there are a bunch of wonderful people and friends with fine examples of their airplanes on the OTHER side of the field.
Weather was certainly a factor Friday morning. Some fog banks moved in and it got downright dangerous for planes on the arrival. While listening and watching I really thought someone was going to get hurt before ATC FINALLY realized the Parker Arrival was IFR and they should shut it down. That call should have been made way earlier. When the field finally opened up Lake parker looked like a porcupine on the ADSB view.

Vic

I was lucky to be close so I didnt leave until I saw it come up to marginal VFR. Once I arrived in the area they shut down arrivals due to a disabled airplane on the runway (9L). They just told us to "Hold" , t since they didnt tell anyone where it was a free-for-all out there! It woukd have been nice to use the procedure and hold around lake hancock and lake parker...but...it was hold anywhere and in any pattern 😳. But, the controller was constanly talking and giving updates to everyone trying to keep everyone safe and calm. Some waited an hour to get in.
 
... After rereading the thread of others experiences after the Tornado, again, I do not think we will be back. Not worth the risk of being charged for things I could do myself.

My plane made it through the tornado in 2011 with only a few scratches. They are now telling pilots they will be charged for damage to the environment due to fuel spillages. Looks like a cover the butt thing.

http://www.sun-n-fun.org/getdoc/b6503e82-aab2-4f61-911d-755601cf2579/arrivalProcedures.aspx
 
Something I heard

Wednesday --- as I walked into the HB area, about noon ---- A guy, coming out of the HB area, was asked by the security guard how his day was going --- His comment: "I wanted to see some experimentals, but nearly everything is an RV" -------

Not sure what one would expect, with over 9000 flying!

(By the way --- my VAF t-shirts are worn out ---- I just ordered (3) more from "littlemooseprints")
 
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I was in HBC from Wednesday until this morning. It was my 9th year flying in and I had as good a time as ever. Fortunately, I fly only 285 miles to get there so weather is not as big a factor for me.

I will keep attending SNF mostly because of the variety of airplanes and mainly because of the friends I meet, old and new. It is a snow ball effect of camaraderie that is really neat. Every year I make at least 2 or 3 new flying friends.

I never experienced anything negative, though the negative can always be found if you look hard enough.
No gripes here, I love SNF :)
 
I was in HBC from Wednesday until this morning. It was my 9th year flying in and I had as good a time as ever. Fortunately, I fly only 285 miles to get there so weather is not as big a factor for me.

I will keep attending SNF mostly because of the variety of airplanes and mainly because of the friends I meet, old and new. It is a snow ball effect of camaraderie that is really neat. Every year I make at least 2 or 3 new flying friends.

I never experienced anything negative, though the negative can always be found if you look hard enough.
No gripes here, I love SNF :)

Bruce,
I've been flying in on Thursday & Friday for years & leave after the airshow.
I keep missing out on all the HBC fun.
Next year, I will change it up & stay overnight in HBC.
 
What's missing - - Showers!

Decent showers is what is missing! They had one small trailer with three stalls, each stall had one hook, no bench, no shelf. It was between HBC and the seaplane area. I decided to walk all the way down past the vintage area just inside the gate to the old block building at least there are about 6 stalls that have a bench and a hook at each one. It sure would be nice if they would build some like the Triple tree Flyin has. They have a lot less people and a lot more and better restrooms and showers. The floors in the stalls are even slotted so your never standing in water. Check out the pictures here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/bobbyhesterKY/TripleTreeFlyIn2013#5921240546868732450

Other than that I had a good time, nice getting to talk RVs with Bruce Sacks.
 
High prices, lack of that welcome feeling...etc.

Best,

Sounds familiar. When I checked the prices to camp under my plane, probably in the mud, and shower with a sink sprayer, and the multiple day minimums....I just don't see the thrill or value flying out from CA. Same with OSH, but the seminars offset the overcharges sometimes. I know for many money is no issue and the experience is worth any cost but not for all of us. :eek:
 
I was there on Friday. The arrival was the most frustrating and harrowing one I have ever made into the Sun-N-Fun. When we (me in my RV4 and a friend in his RV4) arrived at Lake Parker, the controllers were holding everyone over the lake because the field was IFR. The cloud layer was about 1000 feet over the lake so we elected to orbit a couple of miles to the east to stay clear of the log jam of airplanes holding. They told us to go away and come back later so we diverted to go get fueled up. When we got back they started letting planes fly the approach and I managed to make it all the way to the blue roof building before they slammed the door shut and made everyone go back to Lake Parker. There was some joker NORDO in a Zenith that shut everything down. Well, back at the lake everything was out of control. I believe some people do not read the NOTAM before they arrive. Some were circling in the middle of the lake, some along the shore, and some just wandering along cutting others off. The controllers say to maintain 100 knots. Well, if you are behind a Cessna 120 like I was, that is a no go. Now everyone starts to bunch up and the controllers get irate. Throw in the field being closed two more times for "incidences" on the run way and it gets worse. I finally got back on the approach after almost a hour circling the lake. As soon as I turned down wind for 9L, still going way too fast, the controller said turn base and land now! I tried to slip and turn to final all at the same time and still managed to float forever. That Cessna in front of me got pretty big before I got slowed down! I arrived at Lake Parker at about 0830 and it was 1130 before I actually got to home built parking. Oh, and my buddy made to the field an hour before me because he did not get waved off.

And another thing. A cheese burger, a chicken sandwich, two orders of fries, a Coke, and two bottles of water was $31.00. Shameful.
 
Not for me apparently

When my 12 is completed, I'll not attend any event like this. I'd like to meet you all but my evaluation of S&F is that it isn't worth the risk of getting killed while trying to navigate to a landing. I'm not skilled enough to enjoy flying around while trying to see and avoid others in the bait ball.

The EAA fiasco and S&F are definitely on my list of 'must miss.' Don't need them. :(
 
Wow. I guess I am very much in the minority here. My plane has been flying for 13 months now and I've been to Oshkosh and Sun n Fun, enjoying both a great deal. My plane was judged at both so admittedly I spent 90% of the time within 20 feet of my plane talking to judges and builders all day long. SnF is smaller to be sure, but the ground crews and judges couldn't have been more friendly. The crowds at SnF seem more aviation educated to me. I didn't turn around to find anyone climbing into my cockpit or any children hanging from anything while here.

By 1pm it's getting hot out there...I didn't mind having HB parking locked up for the airshow. I was ready to go by then anyway after standing in the sun since 8am. I kinda liked knowing my plane was locked away and safe during that time.

Overall, I really enjoyed SnF and I will be back. I enjoy standing by my plane, talking to all of the builders and telling the rest that anyone can build an RV.....and should. This year, I got to debate plenum design with Sam James himself. I certainly couldn't have done that at home. I disagree with his assertions that my plenum doesn't work but he sure is passionate about them.

It's been a great week and I got to meet many of you and swap stories. See you at Oshkosh!
 
Been there; done that.

I have been to Sun and Fun but no desire to go back. No issues with my trip 20 years ago but nothing to draw me back especially with all the bad stories I hear from those that have been there in the last 10 years. In a community like experimental aviation, negative word of mouth is hard to overcome.
I will spend my aviation gas money flying to local flying ins, breakfasts, and $100 burger joints. I wear my VAF hat to most every place I go. Just happens most places I go has very few people to witness.
 
Every year these SNF posts are either "SNF sucks" or "SNF is awesome". After 15 years attending and nine of those flying in, here is my perspective.

The SNF organizers set the stage but its up to the weather and attendees to make it a success. Yes, it is a money making operation for the organizers and the city. Otherwise it would not take place.

IFR over the field, NORDO Zenith cruising down 27 when all traffic was using 9er, pancaked landing leading to a field closure. All happened within one hour as I stood at the fence with my handheld receiver. Whose fault is that?

I said it before, if you are flying into SNF you can optimize your experience by bringing your own food and drinks, stay in HBC where a donation will get you snacks and cold drinks (BTW MJ pays for it all out of her pocket, SNF only provides the tent, chairs, and camper RV for her and fam), do most of your exploring before noon and after 4. Spend the hot afternoons in a shady place.

SNF is what you make of it. Every year I am fascinated by the variety of planes and grateful for the old friends and new ones I run into. Don't believe rumors and bitter posts. Do some research and planning. It pays off.
 
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Bill, thank you for taking the time to fly your RV-8 out. My wife and I spent a lot of time throughout the week looking it over and taking pictures. It is beautiful and we picked up a lot of ideas. Some of the judges are from our home field so I'm sure they will be talking about your plane when we return home. We look forward to seeing it/you (and everyone else!) at Sun N Fun next year.
 
First -many kudos for the HBC crew, they have been consistent and just great every year for a long time. Helpful, shade, water and more! awesome.

Back to Paul's question. I have been going fairly regularly since 1983, and have seen most of the changes occur slowly. I have said for a number of years now that HBC and friends are the big reason to go. Heck, three good friends now volunteer out of HBC, and I always see Bruce, Pat, and many others as well. For a number of reasons, my boys and I (they started flying in there and camping as toddlers) drove the six wheel RV and camped in the north pasture. It was a nice experience, but I spent a lot of time at HBC any way, and did see and talk to a lot of RV friends. $$$

Well, we were at the base to final area, and it was rare to see a homebuilt land. In the old days, it was a pretty steady stream. My older son Brian wanted to see a Hatz, since I have plans and he went to rib building class. There were none, and few biplanes at all. My off the wall comment was that Sun N Fun was not even close to a home building affair any longer-guess I believe that pretty strongly. There are so many groups and get togethers to have that camaraderie now, that Sun N Fun is kind of a hassle

I will probably get back to HBC one way or another to visit, but the rest of the show has lost some appeal, including no big lines of RVs to look at.

We saved a fortune on food by bringing it ourselves. For old times sake we ate on the warbird line first day 41$!! wow. If they had any free water fountains, they were hard to find.

It is hard to think of not going since I am a hard core airplane lover, and my family looks at it as a given that we go-and they want to take grand kids now, but I may fade out for a bit.

I really did enjoy seeing friends, and telling stories, but the feeling is different without the homebuilding focus
 
We had a great time in HBC! This was our first time flying and arrived Monday just before the weather. There was no traffic so the arrival was easy.

HBC camping is awesome! Mary Jane and her crew are outstanding, friendly and helpful. We had heard about the Friday dinner but had no idea of the breakfast offerings or the evening meals.

The showers could use some hooks and shelves to put stuff on, but they are adequate and I only had to wait a few minutes one morning. Heather never had to wait.

I had no idea how many of the posters to VAF were there. Next time I'll bring a list of registration numbers.

We had a total of 4 Europas in HBC and two other owneers drove in. We all hung out and had a great time.

We'll be back and certainly in HBC.

Jim & Heather
Europa XS N241BW
 
Every year these SNF posts are either "SNF sucks" or "SNF is awesome"

This sums it up the best - good and bad in everything; which one will you expend your time and energy to focus on. I have flown to OSH the past 2 years since owning my 7A, and am already excited about this summer. There are ways to work around the busy times - it is clear to me that some people just flat out don't read the NOTAM:eek: The procedures just aren't that difficult in reality, but not everyone is following along, so I continue to arrive during slow times.

I cannot tell anyone why I like OSH, but it is mostly the people I meet every year. The folks I meet and talk with every morning over coffee in HBC (thanks, Jerry) alone makes the trip worth it to me. All ages, all backgrounds, from all over the country (and world in a few instances). I have yet to hit Sun N Fun - live fairly close, but this time of year is always very busy at work. I imagine I would have similar thoughts on Sun N Fun.
 
My experience

Flew in on Tuesday from Colorado after a stop in Quincy Fl overnight. Always like to see a part of the country along the way. I stayed at Winter Haven, camping alone which was my mistake, but had the use of the FBO facilites. Shuttle daily for $15.00/da. They are very accommodating and nice people to work with. I like to attend the forums and talk with the vendors who supply the parts and supplies for my RV. I talked with Joe from slick magnetos who was very knowledgeable and gave me some ideas of whether to go with electronic ignition or stick with the slicks. The doc who talked about alcohol and flying made me aware of how dangerous the consequences can be if ever arrested. These types of forums and opinions from some of the experts make it worthwhile for me. Of course the USAF thunderbirds were great. The only bad part of the trip was flying back to Colorado, dealing with turbulence, and a pretty strong headwind.
 
Seems for the last year I've been spending more time away from home. Wish I was home so I could have gone to SnF to see old and new friends. Missing my -6, also :)

I don't go for the hoopla or the exorbitant pricing, that's for sure. By the way, what ever happened to $25 per pilot and passenger flying in? Just a question for Lites as he promised a friendlier attitude for aircraft owners willing to display their work.

Thanks for the correction Jerry. I even did a newsletter article for our chapter about his visit to us when he promised the lower pricing for displayed aircraft. Can't believe I misremembered his handle. Must be old age. :)
 
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Don't get my first post wrong. I go to the Sun-N-Fun every year that I possibly can and have only missed a couple of shows in 20 years. With the exception of the high food prices, everything else had to do with the weather, unprepared attendees (not up to speed on the procedures, pancaking in on the runway, etc.) and traffic control. I had no problems once on the ground. This year was just my worse experience in getting to the field. Flying the approach and getting there is my most favorite part. I think it is the excitement and fear that has got me hooked! :eek:
 
Sun and fun

I made it this year. Been there a few times but this was the first time in my own homebuilt . Got too busy talking with people and missed out on having my plane judged . Had a fun day with the group I flew in with .
I'm planning Osh this year , maybe camp 2 or 3 nights . I would like to meet some of the forum guys in person .

See you at Osh
 
Paul,

I was there Thursday wearing my VAF hat. I could also be easily identified by the smell of burning plastic as I gave my credit card a workout. :eek:
 
It was a short hop from Vero Beach to Lakekand. However, we got to look at the shoreline of Lake Parker 3 times before the field was reopened Saturday morning. I parked in HBC even though we were just staying for the day. HBC is definitely off the beaten path and is the next-to-last tram stop. On the other hand, your plane wont be disturbed by inattentive attendees.
Anyway, after tying down and visiting with Mr Jay Pratt and downing an ice cold bottled water courtesy of the HBC crew, we found the tram to take us to the gate for wristbands.
We wandered through the exhibition hangars until noon then bought a meatball sandwich and a drink over at the Sunset Grill. For the record, beers were $6 for the 20 oz and $9 for the 32 oz size - much cheaper than stadium/arena prices.
After lunch we wandered to the fly market and then along the flightline before catching the tram back to HBC to watch the Thunderbird performance. Once again thanks to the HBC crew for the water and snacks. I can't speak about the showers but the porta-potties near HBC seemed lightly used and thus were relatively fresh. A quick stop for fuel ($3.75/gal) at nearby Bartow and we were pushing the plane into the hangar just before 8 pm.
See ya'll next year.
 
My son and I flew all the way down from Alaska(commercial). we had a great time and meet some very smart and educated people. I am building a rv10 and I must say I was wishing there was a few more 10's to look at. I believe we only found 4 and one of them was the 2004 model parked at the Vans tent. All in all for the few days we got it was still worth going all that way for.
I am never able to make it to Oshkosh do to the time of year they hold it so sun-n-fun is my only chance. Thanks to all those that talked to me and gave me there point and thoughts on building an airplane.
 
Actually, I didn't intend to start a debate on SnF...my question was simply why I see so many fewer VAF hats and shirts than I used to! That was basically it....;)

The short answer for many is "been there done that".
And doing SNF and OSH is too much so some opt for the big one.
 
Every year these SNF posts are either "SNF sucks" or "SNF is awesome". After 15 years attending and nine of those flying in, here is my perspective.

The SNF organizers set the stage but its up to the weather and attendees to make it a success. Yes, it is a money making operation for the organizers and the city. Otherwise it would not take place.

IFR over the field, NORDO Zenith cruising down 27 when all traffic was using 9er, pancaked landing leading to a field closure. All happened within one hour as I stood at the fence with my handheld receiver. Whose fault is that?

I said it before, if you are flying into SNF you can optimize your experience by bringing your own food and drinks, stay in HBC where a donation will get you snacks and cold drinks (BTW MJ pays for it all out of her pocket, SNF only provides the tent, chairs, and camper RV for her and fam), do most of your exploring before noon and after 4. Spend the hot afternoons in a shady place.

SNF is what you make of it. Every year I am fascinated by the variety of planes and grateful for the old friends and new ones I run into. Don't believe rumors and bitter posts. Do some research and planning. It pays off.

I agree completely Bruce...nice job!
 
Too busy finishing/closing the aft section of my RV-7A last week. I even took vacation from work so I could focus on the job and get so much done in a week.

Now for the front (and expensive) half of the project :)
 
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