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Build on or replace?

ShortSnorter

Well Known Member
Good Evening All - I'll cut to the chase.

I smeared the head of a 470AD4-7 on the VS-411PP (hinge bracket). I drilled the head and popped it out with a punch but could not for the life of me get the tail/shank out. I slowly drilled with a #40 bit a little at a time and trying to push it out after drilling a bit. I finally drilled through the rivet and ended up knocking/prying the shop head off with flush dykes. When the remnants of the rivet were finally removed, the shop head side of the hole seems to have a slight "countersink" appearance. The hole itself was not enlarged or mishaped from drilling. My question is: Can I replace with the same rivet? Replace with a slightly longer rivet to fill the slightly swollen hole? Start over? Below are some pictures of the empty hole and with a new rivet inserted. Thanks for all the help!

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Whenever, wherever possible, use a hand squeezer. When you first start building, the hands are pretty weak. By the time you finish, you will not even think about squeezing a AD4 rivet.
 
For a part like this it is hard to beat the old C frame for setting a rivet. Support the spar with blocks etc to get it level and then using a hammer set the rivet. The beauty of using a hammer is that you can start with one small hit, take a look at the rivet, adjust, hit again, adjust etc, until you have the perfect shop head.
I use a hammer to back rivet many parts on the airplane, the firewall of the RV14 is a good example of where back riveting using a simple hammer works really well. Yes it is slower then using the rivet gun with a back rivet set but if you have to drill out a few missed rivets the time advantage is gone. In this case I do it free hand, using only the "set' from the C frame and not the frame itself.
Do not get me wrong, I do not use a hammer to set that many rivets on the airplane but sometimes it makes sense, and this may be one of those cases.
As always, practice on some scraps first.
There is a certain amount of pleasure in hand setting a rivet, and actually watching the shop head develop.
It is not that often that you can hit an airplane with a hammer, if feels good!
 
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For a part like this it is hard to beat the old C frame for setting a rivet. Support the spar with blocks etc to get it level and then using a hammer set the rivet. The beauty of using a hammer is that you can start with one small hit, take a look at the rivet, adjust, hit again, adjust etc, until you have the perfect shop head.
I use a hammer to back rivet many parts on the airplane, the firewall of the RV14 is a good example of where back riveting using a simple hammer works really well. Yes it is slower then using the rivet gun with a back rivet set but if you have to drill out a few missed rivets the time advantage is gone. In this case I do it free hand, using only the "set' from the C frame and not the frame itself.
Do not get me wrong, I do not use a hammer to set that many rivets on the airplane but sometimes it makes sense, and this may be one of those cases.
As always, practice on some scraps first.
There is a certain amount of pleasure in hand setting a rivet, and actually watching the shop head develop.
It is not that often that you can hit an airplane with a hammer, if feels good!

Thanks Tom, I'll give the C Frame a shot!
 
Hmm.....

Is it me or does that hole look slightly countersunk? If so you need to rethink the repair. A doubler may be necessary.
 
next time

No comment on this one, but next time, if you need to drill out a #4 rivet, drill all the way thru with a (3/32") drill, then drill off the head. Then try knocking out the shank. Sometimes drilling a small hole help the rivet relax, making it easier to knock out. hope this helps, good luck bob
 
I presume you will clean up any burr or scratch on the damaged surface right? The other rivets look real nice:eek:
 
The wealth of knowledge contained in these forums as well as the willingness to share said knowledge is mind blowing. With that said:

-I think that the picture may create an illusion of the hole being worse than it actually was. The missing paint surrounding the hole adds to the "counter sink" effect. Although there was a slight counter sink feel to the hole, it is definitely not counter sunk or dimpled.

-Luckily I have many local resources available that I converse with on a nearly a daily basis. I brought the spar to two separate IA's (one of whom has been doing structural repair for 45 years!) who both said to just drive another rivet (which I did).

-Tom - I never figured out the C-Frame method. I've see videos of it being done on the EAA website but either I'm not understanding correctly or my tools are not compatible (rivet set, rivet gun, c frame, etc...) FWIW, I've got the Cleaveland C-Frame and basic rivet sets as well. I tried putting the cupped set in the bottom of C-Frame but just wasn't comfortable with the lateral movement.

In the end, the further I get in to building the more detailed my eye is when looking at production aircraft (almost daily) and realize they are far from perfect when it comes to rivets.
 
No comment on this one, but next time, if you need to drill out a #4 rivet, drill all the way thru with a (3/32") drill, then drill off the head. Then try knocking out the shank. Sometimes drilling a small hole help the rivet relax, making it easier to knock out. hope this helps, good luck bob

I agree with the 3/32 drill part, but I recommend people not drill all the way through.
A step by step procedure is detailed in construction manual Section 5 available HERE.
 
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