What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

How do people learn this stuff?

Fenderbean

Well Known Member
Been looking at a few things around here and just wondering how the average guy with no back ground learns how to build his electrical system for his plane? I know some can be simple but with all these avionics options now I have to ask?

I had crew chiefs that went to school just for the wire/avionics side of the house in the military, how would even your A&P know how to do some of these advanced setups? Is it just about being able to read electrical diagrams? When you buy something like the GX3 does it come with a wiring guide for dummies?

I know youtube is a great thing but dang how do folks wire up a full plane with all these systems, interior lighting, heated seats door sensors and back ups with back ups???
 
Last edited:
Been looking at a few things around here and just wondering how the average guy with no back ground learns how to build his electrical system for his plane? I know some can be simple but with all these avionics options now I have to ask?

I had crew chiefs that went to school just for the wire/avionics side of the house in the military, how would even your A&P know how to do some of these advanced setups? Is it just about being able to read electrical diagrams? When you buy something like the GX3 does it come with a wiring guide for dummies?

I know youtube is a great thing but dang how do folks wire up a full plane with all these systems, interior lighting, heated seats door sensors and back ups with back ups???

A lot of us have the wiring designed and even harnesses built by SteinAir. To the uninitiated, it seems overwhelming, but its not, you learn a lot during the process.
 
Last edited:
the dance is just a shuffle

Like riveting, we learn this electrical stuff one wire at a time. Yes it is overwhelming at first, but we all learn the Dynon or Garmin vernacular when dollars are involved.
 
I too was very overwhelmed at first and was looking for a way to not read those massive manuals. In the end you will have to spend some serious time reading them... I also went with a diagram by Bob Nuckolls, that made it a lot more simple. That only covers your basic architecture though. You will still have to look at how to make all your avionics connections/interconnections. In hindsight it is fairly easy now but back when I started it certainly wasn't...
 
Sparks!

Oh my...You're gonna get a lot of advice on this.
Which is JUST WHAT YOU WANT!!!

For the record, I am not an electrician, and I, too, was very intimidated about wiring my bird. I even called up a "completion shop" to see what it would cost for them to do the wiring, and after a very patient conversation, he actually encouraged me to do it myself...as he said...one wire at a time.

I attended an EAA weekend workshop.
I read everything on this site.
I used the Vertical Power digital circuit breaker system to eliminate a LOT of wiring for CBs.
I had SteinAir make my wiring bundles and connectors behind the panel. (There were a couple of mistakes, so if you do this, you STILL have to double-check every wire in every plug.)
I asked a LOT of questions of the vendors I bought stuff from: Dynon, VertPower, Stein, B & C, antennae manufacturers, switch manufacturers, and..
most importantly...utilized my knowledgable friends in my EAA chapter!!!
You ARE in a local chapter, aren't you?!:rolleyes:

Each new wire or component installed added to my confidence until I crossed a "threshold", where I knew I could figure most anything out...with a little help.

There's a lot of HELP out there (here)...be sure to ask for it.

Good luck with your build...you're gonna LOVE the end product.
:D
 
I haven't gotten far enough to do it myself but some good resources to learn from are:
  • The AeroElectric Connection by Bob Nuckolls, along with the Matronics forum that Bob responds to
  • The Aircraft Wiring Guide by Marc Ausman
  • Installation manuals for whatever avionics you go with
  • Hours and hours and hours of reading about it on this site from others that have already done it

There's also classes put on throughout the year by EAA and the Aircraft Electronics Association. Not sure what their schedules look like right now with the pandemic though.
 
Buy or download a copy of "The Aeroelectric Connection". Read it twice. At least.

Marc Ausman's "Aircraft Wiring Guide" would also be a good buy.

You can go the the avionics manufacturer's website and download the installation manuals for what boxes you might install. Garmin, for example, does very good manuals with a lot of detail about how they want things done.

Edit:

HA! Exactly the same advice, at exactly the same post time!
 
When you started your project, what did you know ?

What have you learned ?

How many skills have you expanded on ?

Avionics can be tricky, but the electrics on the aeroplane are not. I always advocate utilising either a plug and play system such as Approach Systems or Advanced, or going to a specialist like Stein. You can do lots of wonderful stuff during your build, but the hooking up of modern avionics can and is daunting - use a specialist, it will save you time and angst and result in that - Oooooo moment when you turn it on :D

The two 12's we did were an absolute joy when it came to the avionics. A hub, some superbly crafted looms by Vans/Stein and a fault free result with no squawks whatsoever.
 
Make certain you also read about digital communications. Buzz words you want to understand include RS232, ports, baud rate, format. You need to read and understand this before making any purchases. More than one builder has bought an inexpensive box with only a couple of RS232 ports, and after the fact realized he wanted four of them! Figure out how many you need before spending money.
 
You end up educating yourself, just like your crew chief did. Except, you only "must" learn just enough to do what you want to do on your one project. Yes, the components usually come with extensive documentation and example wiring/interconnect schematics which many of us find ourselves immersed in while we're working on that particular part.
 
Confused ???

I too was confused. Read all the books, studied all the manuals, watched videos and took the EAA wiring class. Totally UNCLEAR on how it all wired together. Had Stein prepare me an interconnected wire diagram of my whole system. BEST MONEY SPENT. Not one item mis-wired. Talk to him. He KNOWS what he sells. He even has How-To videos on his website. U won’t be disappointed.
 
Many look at the wiring system in a plane & think it's overwhelming in it's complexity. If you look at one circuit at a time, it makes it much easier to see how it all works.

All the points mentioned above are great tips.

A couple points not mentioned yet (I think)
- always use quality aviation quality electrical supplies - connectors, terminals, wiring, switches and such.
- follow examples as illustrated in the above mentioned publications when designing your electrical systems - DO NOT try to come up with a better widget! Copying what is known to work is the way to go.
- follow the techniques and best practices you learned on the EAA electrical course (you will attend).

Good building!
 
Last edited:
I was born knowing everything I know about airplanes. You guys all had to learn it along the way? Sounds hard ;)

Actually, as an A&P I knew a fair bit about wiring, but I was completely ignorant of how canbus worked, etc. I just finished the 3 day EAE class in K.C. and that helped a bunch. I know that K.C. is a fair distance from you, but if you could make it work out, I highly recommend that class.
 
Last edited:
Some excellent advice here and equally excellent references.

Most things can be eaten one bite at a time. Electrical systems are the same way. Perhaps start with a suitable power format from Nuckoll's book for your anticipated systems and operation, and work through the basics of that. There are a number of threads here on VAF that discuss individual builder's planned electrical systems, with insightful comments and usually - this part is cool - pointing out some unforeseen subtlety that is simultaneously too easy to miss and important.

Dave
 
This is a difficult question. I used to be an electrical engineer so of course I knew everything there was to know about wiring :rolleyes: Wrong. Aircraft wiring is a whole different thing from house wiring or industrial wiring. First, there's the philosophy about why you do things a certain way. Aircraft wiring must tolerate vibration and be fireproof. You will have to learn about circuit protection with fuses and/or circuit breakers. Aircraft wiring must also must be lightweight. Then there are the practical aspects of wire sizing, routing, and termination. That's all pretty straightforward but, when you get into the avionics area, that's yet another different skill. You will need special tools to strip and crimp those tiny wires to the DB connectors, and learn how to terminate shields on shielded cables for data or audio. Not having the tools at the time, I wimped out and hired an avionics shop to build me a harness for my transponder (They did a great job.) Recently, I installed a Garmin GTR200B com radio but, this time, I bought my own stripping/crimping tools. The tools cost me about $100 and the job took me two weeks. (I should have bought the tools years ago.) The radio came out OK but the work was tedious for an old guy like me.
 
Hmmm.... how do I say this without causing offense to somebody? I guess I'll just shoot from the hip like I usually do, and apologize in advance for any hurt feelings.

Firstly, most A&Ps are "ok" at wiring, some are poor, some are fair, few are really good. Most of them have come by their level of knowledge and skill the hard way, learned one painful lesson at a time. If you asked a typical A&P to design an aircraft electrical system in totality, most would come up blank - their job is normally to keep an existing electrical system operational, not to design a new system.

With this in mind, I would suggest the OP spend a bunch of time cruising through the forums here, learning about not just the electrical system designs themselves, but, more importantly, about WHY one design may be better than another for a particular application.

Farming out the design is one way to do it... it's not cheap but it's one way. Another way is to come up with some pencil sketches and submit them to peer review - this forum has proven this to be a terrific method to use the collective wisdom and experience within this community to quickly and efficiently weed out erroneous design concepts and to pick up on errors of omission.

When it comes to how to actually wire the airplane, this is where having contact with an EAA chapter really helps. A good chapter will be able to identify who the "go to" people are to act as advisors to you (be they formally-recognized Technical Advisors or just the local guru whose wiring looks like it belongs in a textbook. Spend some time experimenting with techniques of wire termination, routing, securing bundles, identifying wires, and the timeless art of lacing cord.

As others have mentioned previously, aircraft wiring is, by and large, very simple. I simplified my wiring diagrams by creating them on a single sheet per system. A system might be "Transponder" or "Audio" or "Exterior Lighting". This technique allows a person to divide and conquer. Wire one system at a time AFTER you've mapped out how you want your bundles to run. As an example, in my aircraft the wiring is broken into three categories and three major wire runs. Down the left side I have audio, control sticks and autopilot. Down the right side I have power and control for all the loads outside the instrument panel, the stuff like landing lights, fuel pumps, etc. Down the middle I have coaxial cables for the radios. Once I settled on these three major functional groups it became very easy to know which wires would go where.

Many amateur-built aircraft look like they were wired by a squirrel on crack cocaine. By contrast, some of them look like their wiring has been a labour of love; meticulous, neat, well secured and free from dangers of chafing or impingement. How you choose to wire your aircraft is your business, however from a reliability standpoint those aircraft in which the wiring looks very good usually also exhibit much better in-service reliability.
 
Yep, I wondered that too.

Came up with the only way I could do it.

Start at the positive end of the battery and learn where that first wire goes and what you need to know about.

Then, what is the next wire on the circuit and what do you need to know about it?

Keep moving through the circuit in this fashion and you'll ultimately have the wiring diagram complete.

Also use Nichols book as the guide as you move thru the system.
 
Installing the Electronic Stuff

There really is a lot to learn and understand in selecting, laying out, installing, wiring and testing the electronic stuff. Each of these tasks has impact on the tasks that follow so just diving right in and seeing where it leads is not a good plan because you will have a major redo on your hands unless you get really lucky. Bob Nuckles book is a really good start. Finding an experienced mentor is also a really good idea. Think the whole plan through on paper first. What equipment to buy, where each item is going to go, where major cable bundles are going to be run and secured, is there enough room for connectors, what size and length of wire, how you are going to label wires, what are you going to do about wiring diagrams, special tools you will need, crimps, butt splices and terminals, wire purchase, connectors and wire bundle hold downs, checkout and functional test procedures (pre and power on). The actual work goes pretty fast if you have given some thought and have a plan for each of these items before placing any orders for parts. The most important advice is to have a mentor to bounce ideas off and keep you on the right track, review your work and help with the hard parts where experience is needed.

KT
 
Thanks for all the stuff posted so far, figured I would need to do some reading and despite how it sounds I tend to do well with this kind of stuff. I was a crew dog myself at one time, then moved on to flying them and ended up at the end back in maintenance as a test pilot. Just wish I would have been one of the avionics guys now for sure lol:D

Just recently heard about the EAA stuff so I will look into it for sure. Someone mention the VP system, already on my list and not sure how its not the standard now.
I also thought about premade harnesses but my setup is already going to be higher than normal and if I can figure it out I would enjoy wiring im sure.
 
Wiring is no more difficult than plumbing or hydraulics.

You have a high pressure (voltage) supply, and a low pressure (ground) drain for each device. Make sure the pipes (wires) are the correct size for the flow (amps), and you got this problem licked. Throw in a pressure tank (battery) for storage, and a pressure pump (alternator) for constant supply. Valves (switches and fuses) as needed to control the flow.

And then the real secret to actually wiring it up - ONE CIRCUIT at a time, lather rinse repeat, you'll be done before you know it.
 
Last edited:
Good advice on books to read here. The AEA class in Kansas is great and well worth the time. After you have read and digested all of that, then you will have a foundation to know where to start your design.

This old thread of mine gives one approach

https://vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=152279

I spent around 400 hours learning, researching and designing the drawings linked in the thread. One of the most satisfying skills I learned in the long process of building my 10.

If you don't want to dive in that deep, read the stuff any way, then hire the avionics done. You will still get your hands on a lot of wires any way.

Good luck
 
As mentioned several times, get the Aerolectric Connection to start. Also, the NASA Spec

https://nepp.nasa.gov/files/27631/NSTD87394A.pdf

has tons of good information about acceptable and, maybe more importantly, unacceptable practices for crimps, splices, sleeves, lacing, etc.

I found doing the wiring in the plane (and with the exception of the pre-made harnesses from Dynon and Stein, which generally came with only the end at the avionics box completed, I did the entire plane myself) very satisfying and rewarding.

Do yourself a favor and find a wiring diagram tool that you feel comfortable with and *keep it updated*. I used ExpressSCH. Also, get a good labelmaker and label both ends of each wire (K-Sun Bee3 will print heat shrink tubing).

Invest in good tools (you can usually find very expensive tools for a fraction of the cost on Ebay...like the DMC crimpers, or the AMPCO crimpers for PIDG terminals which list new at $1700 and can be found for a hundred or so on Ebay). You'll need a bunch of crimpers...PIDG, D-Sub, High Density D-Sub, Coax, Molex, etc., depending on what avionics you buy. Strippers, too. Ask on here for advice on what to get when you figure out what you need.

Once you get into it, you'll find it's really not that daunting.

Oh, one more thing...neatness counts. It's a **** of a lot easier to trace a problem if you can visually follow a wire in a bundle because your layments are neat, and wires are labelled. I've seen some that look like a roomful of cats got into a giant bag of knitting yarn, and the owner can't figure out why something isn't working. Take your time...make haste slowly.
 
Last edited:
Prompted by this thread, I've also recently subscribed to a couple of mailing lists on the matronics site - Bob Nuckolls posts over there frequently it would seem.

Hoping I can learn some of this osmotically.
 
@Fenderbean you're just a 20 minute flight for me, would love to help get you going!

Thanks for all the stuff posted so far, figured I would need to do some reading and despite how it sounds I tend to do well with this kind of stuff. I was a crew dog myself at one time, then moved on to flying them and ended up at the end back in maintenance as a test pilot. Just wish I would have been one of the avionics guys now for sure lol:D

Just recently heard about the EAA stuff so I will look into it for sure. Someone mention the VP system, already on my list and not sure how its not the standard now.
I also thought about premade harnesses but my setup is already going to be higher than normal and if I can figure it out I would enjoy wiring im sure.
 
@Fenderbean you're just a 20 minute flight for me, would love to help get you going!

Will def be offering Barbecue and Beer for your help when the time comes for sure! Im still some time out before I will have the plane to start but I would really like to sit down and talk about my thoughts on a setup vs what can actually be done. See what I haven't thought of and fine tune the plane.
 
Like every other aspect of the build it is all broken down into bite sized chunks. Wiring up my efis and engine module (mgl) was actually pretty straight forward. There is a pin out diagram and you follow it. As for everything else (mostly) every single doodad be it light, trim motor, flap motor, efis, fuel pump or whatever gets a wire from the 12v buss, to a fuse or breaker, to a switch, then to the doodad and to ground. They are all exactly the same. Then all the sensors on the engine have a signal wire going to a gauge or electronic display and another wire to ground and perhaps another wire to either a 5v source or a 12v source. It's a lot of wires, but it is all repetition.

If you try to consider it all at once it is like considering the location of 30,000 rivets at once. You will blow out a brain circuit. Think one doodad at a time and it will start to make sense. Go look at other planes if you can. That will help with the practical aspects of how to do a neat job. In fact looking at other planes is probably the best thing you can do. The circuits are actually fairly simple, but figuring out how to gang all the various wires and label them neatly and through various bits of structure is a challenge. That’s another reason that Osh is so awesome. You can look and ask and builders will tell you.
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
Back
Top