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N_Franklin

I'm New Here
Howdy Y'all,

I had been really thinking on this for some time, while I was working on my private. I have been lurking on here for several months now, and I have come to the conclusion that I think an RV, specifically an RV-14A, would be right for me. I passed my checkride a few weeks back, and now I think that this is something i want to do and move forward with. I have seen the lead times for kits from Vans, and put in a tail kit order last week to try to start the clock, but I was hoping that i could get some advice from the experienced builders on how to best start. I think i have reasonable woodworking and light machining experience (i have already made some initial workbenches for this project), but i can't say i have any "aircraft building" experience, outside of theory and R/C, and have never so-much-as held a rivet gun. The Vans website says that is enough to get started. Is that what y'all think, too? I assume those toolbox/sign/etc. starter kits are a good idea?
There are several sites out there who advertise "RV" tool kits. Are they a good idea, or is it better to try to piecemeal out only the tools you need? Is there a brand/source/site most people use?
Did most of you have prior experience? How difficult is it to dive right in? How much of a learning curve did you experience? How often have you relied on other builders in the area?
I want to do this right, and acknowledge that i really don't have much experience with this and am rather new to GA as a whole, and want to learn as much as i can. Thanks in advance, everyone, I appreatiate any insights y'all have.

TLDR: Howdy! New kid on the block here, any tips for just getting started?
 
I am far from an experienced builder, so keep that in mind when reading my reply!

I had a lot of the same questions you posed -- here's what I did:

1. prior experience: if you've not done any metal working, taking a class with EAA or having an experienced builder help you at the beginning will be invaluable; I took a week long course at Alexander Technical Center in Georgia 12 years ago, and I retained enough from that to allow me to dive right in on my -14

2. tools: I am kind of a tool nut, so I decided to assemble my own set of tools; I'm glad I did so, but it took a long time to get everything together, and I probably paid more in shipping than I would have had I bought everything together.

3. tools continued: I've mainly purchased from Brown Aviation Tools, Aircraft Tool Supply, and Aircraft Spruce; I did make a few purchases of specialized items from other places, like Flyboy Accessories. Completely happy with everyone with whom I've done business -- all the positive things you've heard about the homebuilding community are true, it seems!

One thing I did before I actually started building was ORGANIZE: I organized my parts storage, my fasteners, my tools, and my workshop. It took me quite a while, but I find the environment in which I'm working to be very pleasant and conducive to getting things done! (It also impresses my curious neighbor -- bonus! :D)
 
RV14A

Hi Nathaniel,I have building my 14 for 6 years now. Started out helping my brother build his 9A so that’s where I got my experience. 1st thing buy quality tools so you don’t have to buy twice. I went with Clevland tools, they have a good 14 kit but you’ll still have to add more as you go.get organized this will save you hours searching for parts like I did.and if in dought about the build ask,ther are numerous sites out there to gain info. Tim Olsens site was a tremendous help for me . Good luck and enjoy the build 308B268E-35BE-4BF4-AD3B-A86302AC3B33.jpeg
 
The Vans website says that is enough to get started. Is that what y'all think, too? I assume those toolbox/sign/etc. starter kits are a good idea?

Yes. My advise is find a Mentor and build at least one. Then drill it apart and do it again. Then go home and lather, rinse, repeat. Sound dull but it develops skills.

There are several sites out there who advertise "RV" tool kits. Are they a good idea, or is it better to try to piecemeal out only the tools you need? Is there a brand/source/site most people use?

Yes. Unless you get lucky and find a used set. You may not use every single tool but a kit will save some cash. You will piece meal lots of tools afterwards. Another reason to learn with a Mentor. You will get a feel for which tools you want.

Did most of you have prior experience? How difficult is it to dive right in? How much of a learning curve did you experience? How often have you relied on other builders in the area?
Most? I think most have some sort of hobby experience but I feel anyone can do it. Your previous skills are more than adequate.
Learning curve? One for every skill. First aluminum, fiberglass, engine, avionics, paint, etc. It's not a problem if you enjoy the process.
Others? What time is it? Find a Mentor and start making a list of resources like builder blogs. VAF is probably #1. Always search for tips before starting a component. Don't make other builder's mistakes. They are easy to prevent by searching.
 
Plan for storage. As you get the kits, you'll have lots of bits of hardware and lots of other parts. Then as you build, you'll gradually have a bunch of large airplane parts that need storage room.

I found that the shop differed considerably as I moved through the components. I set it up for the empennage kit, rearranged it for the wings, rearranged it again for the fuselage, and expect to rearrange it yet again when I hang the engine. Painting or wrapping will need a whole different set-up. Caveat, I'm building an RV-3B and that might affect this paragraph;s applicability for you.

Add The Yard Store to your tools vendor list. I've had excellent service and tools from them. Gotta say that uniformly, RV suppliers and vendors are a wonderful bunch.

Dave
 
Find an RV Builders group on your area. If you can't find one, contact Van's for a list of builders in your area at least. Most builders are more than happy to share their expertice and knowledge (and sometimes tools). And who knows, you may form friendships for a lifetime by doing so. (Ask me how I know)
 
Thanks for the rapid and thoughtful responses!
I think that Mr. Klugewicz , Mr. Larson, and llohrman2 bring up an excellent point about finding mentors. I have been going to several of those Saturday morning fly-in breakfasts (KSYI, KBGF) hosted by eaa, now that they are happening again. Is there another resource of in-person support that y'all have found helpful, outside of other individual builders? llohrman2 mentions specific clubs, how common/active are those?

Thanks for all the tool recommendations! I had not seen some of those sources. I will really have to sit down and do some shopping soon!

Given the extended lead times from VANS, would y'all recommend getting in line for QB wing/fuselage kits now, or waiting? I intend to go after the empennage fairly aggressively, when it gets here, but don't have to much context for how long it will actually take. Did it go together pretty quickly for y'all?

Last question: I have noticed that, be it here, on youtube, personal sites, or whatnot, many people extensively document their builds with both photo and video recordings. I understand why personal documentation is important, but is it normal/recommended to publish them? They make for great resources for people like me, but are they useful to the builder as well?

Thanks again!
 
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I just started the empennage on an 8. I did the one day Synergy course in Newnan, Ga, and it was fantastic. There's still way more to learn, but it really helped me over the initial hump to get started.
 
I did the same as you are for about two years. When i finally decided to jump in, I too was concerned. I didn’t have any metal working and relatively light woodworking in my past. So, I took the 1 day Synergy class and felt much more confident. Purchased my empinage kit and have been having a great time with it.

When I first started, I had the feeling that must work and work fast. Once I slowed down and worked when I wanted to, I made fewer mistakes and really began to enjoy the work.

Recommendations:
Watch the applicable YouTube videos. Just seeing things go together helps sometimes.

Complete a practice kit or two.

Sometimes tools can come up for sale here. I made a couple of purchases. The remainder came from one of the larger tool suppliers.

Join your local chapter of the EAA.

Find a mentor if it all possible.

I utilize the EAA builders log for my accounting. It’s kind of “dear diary” but it has its uses too.

Work at your own pace, not what you see others doing on the internet.

Enjoy your build

Eric...
 
Last question: I have noticed that, be it here, on youtube, personal sites, or whatnot, many people extensively document their builds with both photo and video recordings. I understand why personal documentation is important, but is it normal/recommended to publish them? They make for great resources for people like me, but are they useful to the builder as well?

Thanks again!

When you finish your airplane, it must be inspected by the FAA or a DAR (designated airworthiness rep). They will want ‘proof’ that you built the airplane, especially if you want the Repairman certificate. Photos (especially with you in the picture) are worth their weight in gold.
 
Given the extended lead times from VANS, would y'all recommend getting in line for QB wing/fuselage kits now, or waiting? I intend to go after the empennage fairly aggressively, when it gets here, but don't have to much context for how long it will actually take. Did it go together pretty quickly for y'all?

With the help of a (very) experienced instructor and a well-equipped shop with plenty of space, I was able to complete about 70% of the empennage for an RV-10 in a week of 10 hour days, so there's no question that it's possible to complete the -14 tail in only a few weeks -- if you have experienced help. Otherwise, things will go more slowly as you gain that experience through research (VAF, builder sites, EAA chapters, etc.), studying the plans (Van's -14 plans are outstanding), building, and making mistakes and fixing them.

For the empennage, I've heard 3-6 months is about average for a new builder. I'm planning a slow build, so I'll be ordering my wing kit very soon, now that my empennage is underway.

Last question: I have noticed that, be it here, on youtube, personal sites, or whatnot, many people extensively document their builds with both photo and video recordings. I understand why personal documentation is important, but is it normal/recommended to publish them? They make for great resources for people like me, but are they useful to the builder as well?

I'm documenting my build in detail on the web for a few reasons:

  • It's a way to share my progress with friends

  • It's a way of "paying it forward" and potentially helping other new or prospective builders


  • It's motivation: having something new to post on a regular basis will hopefully help me through periods where building might feel like a chore

  • And as Bob pointed out, the DAR will want to see documentation that you actually built the airplane for which you're seeking certification of airworthiness.
 
Help

Is there another resource of in-person support that y'all have found helpful, outside of other individual builders? llohrman2 mentions specific clubs, how common/active are those?

EAA Chapters are common. All are unique. Attend a few different Chapter meetings and decide. In addition to assistance and knowledge, many have tools you can borrow. Stuff like scales or other expensive less used tools.
There are also social groups on Facebook. I manage a forum of Colorado builders.

Given the extended lead times from VANS, would y'all recommend getting in line for QB wing/fuselage kits now, or waiting? I intend to go after the empennage fairly aggressively, when it gets here, but don't have to much context for how long it will actually take. Did it go together pretty quickly for y'all?

Tough question. A search of builder logs will give you some context as to empennage build times. It's different for everyone and variables such as "Priming" can have a huge affect on time. "QB or not to QB? That is the question." Sorry. Personal choice. If you love building and or money is tight, SB. If you want to fly, QB or buy a finished airplane. Personally, I love it and it's a matter of pride to know I drove or bucked every rivet.

Last question: I have noticed that, be it here, on youtube, personal sites, or whatnot, many people extensively document their builds with both photo and video recordings. I understand why personal documentation is important, but is it normal/recommended to publish them? They make for great resources for people like me, but are they useful to the builder as well?

Publishing is personal choice. I'm one of the Publish camp but I spent a career in Technology so it's no big deal. It's far more than necessary, but my blog helps others and I feel it will improve resale value if she ever has to be sold. Methods of documentation vary from check marks and dates in the Vans Builder Manual to Blogger. Lots of choices. Figure out what fits your comfort level. Look at EAA and VAF Builder logs.
 
I built a 9A. I am an AME in Canada so I already had some of the tools and experience. One thing I wish I had purchased early in the build is a pneumatic rivet squeezer. I love that tool. What I have seen of the tool kits offered, they are somewhat complete. You never have enough 3/32 clecos. I also found 5/32 and 3/16 clecos useful. Half a dozen or so of each is adequate. I Also love my tungsten bucking bars.
Ray
 
As for publishing, I've found that occasional comments are worth a bunch. They help me ensure than I've thought of critical things. Sometimes people send me comments off-line and these too are very helpful.

Of course with an RV-14A, which is more of a standard construction process than the RV-3B I'm building, these factors might not be as necessary. Still, your audience will probably let you know if they see something amiss.

Dave
 
Lot's of good recommendations already provided by others, but here are a couple that haven't been offered yet:

Like you, I started with a background in woodworking, home plumbing, and auto repair; but no aluminum work or riveting. I took the EAA sheet metal class that helped, but then I decided to take the Synergy Air Empennage class in Oregon. This was a great way to actually start work on my RV with advise and support of their A&Ps working with me. It also allowed me to try a variety of different tools which helped me decide which ones I wanted to buy. However, I'm not sure how practical it would be for you to take such a course if you are from England, particularly since you build your empennage at the class and then have to get it shipped home.

I purchased my tool kit from Cleaveland tools (https://www.cleavelandtool.com/ ) and have been very happy with their quality and support. I have also added a number of additional tools as my build progressed. As others have said, I find my tungsten bucking bar and pneumatic rivet squeezer to be the first tools I reach for when riveting, and highly recommend them. And I purchased extra clecoes as you always need more. Cleaveland will let you substitute and/or add tools such as these to your kit.

Enjoy the building process.
 
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