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RV12 for x-country stuff out west?

petizo1

I'm New Here
Hello, I'm new to the forum and a 100 hour private pilot; I've been looking at buying a used RV12. I went and flew one a few hours this weekend to get some transition training. I really enjoyed the plane and the handling, especially the 3-4 gph at 100+kts! When I talked to the experienced 15K hour instructor he advised against one for anything except local around the patch flights. I'd really like to think it could be used for trips from Socal to Northern CA, AZ and even Utah, New Mexico...he thought with the big mountains everywhere that would be dangerous and such a light plane would not be a good choice except on the most perfect of days. Obviously I'd pick the best weather I could, but to be honest, he made me nervous that I'm being naive about the realities of light sport x-country capabilities. Would love to get some thoughts from those of you that have more experience. Thank you!
 
Welcome!

First, define what your overall mission is. Are long XC's in your weekly/monthly game plan?

The -12 is a capable little airplane and comfortable enough for enduring XC time. I have flown ours from Southern OH to Frederick, MD and then to Carbondale, IL and back to So. Ohio all in the same week.

Limitations : Fuel Endurance and flight in IMC conditions requiring IFR. Can these issues be overcome, yes. Folks have added fuel bladders to carry extra fuel (see the modifications thread). The -12 could be equipped for IFR if the Operating Limitations allow.

If it is a turbulent day, the light wing loading will keep you searching for smooth air.

If not equipped for night flight, plan ahead.

Mountains? I don't do much mountain flying other than hopping over the Appalachians on occasion and the -12 is fine for that.

The -12 is not an RV-10 or Bonanza, planning is different.

Remember, long xc's can be accomplished 1 hour at a time :)
 
Van's has been crossing the Rockies (east bound and west bound) with multiple RV-12's each year going to and from OSH for 10+ years now. I have made the round trip in an RV-12 myself a half dozen or so times. The airplane does fine but admittedly can get tossed around a bit if turbulence is bad.
Good planning and decision making is a good idea, but it doesn't require anything special. My go/no go decision would be the same in most any flight conditions regardless of which model RV I was flying (I.E., I don't feel limited when flying the RV-12 other than the trip is going to take longer, and the legs between fuel stops will be shorter).
 
Welcome!

"First, define what your overall mission is. Are long XC's in your weekly/monthly game plan?"

Thanks for the advice. I definitely think I would like to fly day VFR principally and occasionally, maybe monthly on 3-6 hour x-countries. I've flown mostly Piper Warriors to this point and my longest trip was Iowa to Oklahoma city. I would like to feel like it can be useful for more than 50 mile burger runs!
 
My RV 12 is based at Salt Lake International. I have to clear the mountains on almost every flight. The 12 does just fine at gross weight. It performs remarkably well when flying solo. The Rotax tends to run very rich at high altitude. I have found that the altitude compensating carburetors are less effective above 8000 feet. But it is not a big problem.

I have to stop for fuel every three hours; which is as long as I like to fly any given leg anyway.

I do not fly when the winds are greater than 15 knots over the ridge lines.

I have flown 350 hours over the he past two years, and very little of my flying has been hamburger runs. I have flown all over Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Nevada, and California.

I hope that helps.
 
This is all very helpful and makes me more comfortable. The only other thing that will take some getting used to was the castering nosewheel, especially on take-off! Hoping that is just a practice thing but it sure interesting trying to keep in straight on the runway!
 
Ask that experienced 15K hour instructor how many long cross country flights that he has flown in the RV-12. I suspect none. I flew my RV-12 from Michigan to Dallas TX and back. A friend has flown his RV-12 from Michigan to Van's Homecoming in Oregon and back. He has also flown to Florida more than once.
If you are looking for long distance transportation, take an airline. They are faster, safer and less costly. But if you are looking for a new toy and fun, and adventure, buy a RV-12.
 
You will soon get used to the castering nose wheel. The faster you taxi, the easier it is. It sorta reminds me of a tail wheel. You have to think ahead.
 
LSA in mountains

Hi there,

I have not flown the RV-12. I did my PPL in a Gobosh, a certified LSA. My home field was Centennial Airport in Denver. Field elevation is 5,880 ft. I flew the Gobosh all over the mountains in Colorado using the same rules I use for my 6a. It has to be clear, and the winds aloft at 12,000 ft need to be less than 25 knots. This keeps me from getting tossed around. I took the Gobosh in and out of Leadville over Westin pass. It did fine. I think the RV-12 would be better since the empty weight is almost 70 pounds less than the Gobosh, and they have the same engine.

If you plan on doing a lot of XC then you might look at one of the 160-180 hp models of RV. They all fly about the same, ...really great! I took up flying 7a's and 6a's with about 140 hours. I thought the transition was pretty easy with the training I did before I bought. Just something to think about.

Blue skies.

Geoff
 
I too am a relatively new pilot with only a few more hours than you. I bought an RV12 last year even before finishing my license and keep it at KDVO. I think my mission is similar - bum around this part of the country on short/medium trips.

This summer I did an overnight trip with a passenger to Socal and was perfectly comfortable going that distance; I wouldn't hesitate going further. After taking a mountain flying course this summer I've now also crossed the sierras a couple times, at Tahoe and Yosemete. There wasn't much wind when I did it so I can't speak to how it handled turbulence but performance was still fine at altitude.

With regard to the nose wheel - you get used to it. Also, the -12 I transitioned in had the nose wheel fork friction set pretty high and required a lot more effort to keep straight. My plane is set properly to the specs and is much more manageable.
 
I've flow my 12 everywhere I flew my 9 including yearly to Oshkosh. As others have said it just takes a little longer with more fuel stops. I do enjoy being faster than the Cessna 172s using only about 5 GPH.
 
I've flow my 12 everywhere I flew my 9 including yearly to Oshkosh. As others have said it just takes a little longer with more fuel stops. I do enjoy being faster than the Cessna 172s using only about 5 GPH.

I agree with Scott?s post and 3 of us camped close to Scott at Air Aventure. A short video of the flight of three RV12s on a Xcounty 1 from Maine, 1 from Pa, and 1 from NJ to Oshkosh.

https://youtu.be/rRCOpa4O7EA
 
If you have 20 minutes, this link may be helpful to you. My opinion about the RV-12 and its cross-country capabilities will be obvious ;)

https://youtu.be/SR69XQj4jZg

Great job Paul!
I?m a wannabe x-country dude. Say for my edification, did you hand fly it mostly or call on the AP? How do you pass your time during longest legs? And did you stay connected to ATC, any dead spots? What spare parts do you carry?

Thank you for sharing how it?s done.

Doug in IL
 
Wow Paul, had to watch your Oshkosh and First couple RV12 build videos. Very impressive! I also watched the great video from David (Dvalcik) and thought how great to see 3 of the RV12's flying together. I was also at Oshkosh the last couple of years and saw your planes without meeting you.

I must say I was feeling a bit down after my experience last weekend about the idea of buying an RV12 but feel rejuvinated from all of your experiences and help. Really appreciate the warm welcome as well.
David
 
I?m 67. I routinely fly my 12 almost every weekend on a three hour cross country. It?s plenty capable and comfortable for that. Coast to coast might leave me a bit stiff at the end of the day, but 3 hour legs are plenty doable.
 
Great job Paul!
I?m a wannabe x-country dude. Say for my edification, did you hand fly it mostly or call on the AP? How do you pass your time during longest legs? And did you stay connected to ATC, any dead spots? What spare parts do you carry?

Doug in IL

Hi Doug, I would say I was about 50/50 hand flying vs AP. I took advantage of all that AP time to really learn my Skyview system. I have two 10" displays, so it was a lot of fun to learn how capable the RV-12 is with that setup. No issues or dead spots with ATC, although I didn't use flight following all of the time. I didn't really carry any spare parts, just basic tools and the normal supply of spare fuses.

Wow Paul, had to watch your Oshkosh and First couple RV12 build videos. Very impressive! David

Glad you enjoyed them David. I feel I could fly anywhere in the RV-12 using 3 - 3.5 hour legs. All the best in your search!
 
LSA x-country machine

Welcome petizo1. You mentioned you are from KTOA. I used to fly the Sling LSA regularly out of KTOA and it is a great airplane. The RV12 is similar and I would not hesitate to own one for x-country flights. We flew to FL Lakeland in it! I believe it took us 3 days but it was not bad at all. I am now stationed at CPM and own an RV4. Look forward to meeting you someday!
 
Vans are great planes. I purchased my RV7a with less than five hours after getting my PPL. Best investment ever. Flew it from Florida to Oregon with Mike Seager and learned so much. We cruised 8-10k up to the Rockies then jumped up to 10-12 south of the Rockies from Amarillo to Oregon with a couple bumps up to 12.5k. I live in northern Arizona now and have flown over 200 hours between Colorado (Telluride), Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Oregon, Washington and Idaho and Tohatchipi California. Even flown it up to 17.5k to escape the smoke and haze of western wildfires this summer, didn?t work to well. I routinely fly from KPGA to KYKM with a stop in KLWL for fuel and usually have to fly 10-12k to clear mountains and try to only do so in early mornings through the summer. That trip usually takes 4.5 hrs not including one fuel stop.

Recently talked with another transition pilot flying a RV12 through Page and he thought it was way underpowered for the Rockies.

As for the castor wheel, per Mike Seager, ?Its not a landing gear. It?s a taxi gear? no three point landings!

Good luck on your choice, all the vans are well designed, builts however can differ. I saw one that was completed with pop rivets entirely.
 
As for the castor wheel, per Mike Seager, ?Its not a landing gear. It?s a taxi gear? no three point landings!.

Thanks for all the great stories and advice! For the nosewheel I do think in maybe 10 hours I?d feel more capable, and I was ok on taxi and even landing. It was the takeoff as the speed was lower and rudder not quite effective that I would head a bit left then correct and head right and back and just prayed for rotation speed to get there quick! Never in any sort of danger but not something I?ve dealt with before. Somehow the landings were fine as still good speed and rudder authority, and as exiting the runway at higher than taxi speed felt good.
 
Thanks for all the great stories and advice! For the nosewheel I do think in maybe 10 hours I?d feel more capable, and I was ok on taxi and even landing. It was the takeoff as the speed was lower and rudder not quite effective that I would head a bit left then correct and head right and back and just prayed for rotation speed to get there quick! Never in any sort of danger but not something I?ve dealt with before. Somehow the landings were fine as still good speed and rudder authority, and as exiting the runway at higher than taxi speed felt good.

In an RV-12, ideal rotation speed is 20 - 25 MPH.
Once the nose is up and you are running on just the main wheels (ala soft field take-off) with the nose wheel just barely off ground, steering is only influenced by rudder and the rudder becomes about 30% more effective.
Hold that attitude an the airplane will fly off when it is ready.

In a left cross wind, this technique can mean the difference between a long take-off while dragging the R brake to stay straight, of a normal (or quite short depending on the actual wind direction) take-off.
 
Thanks for all the great stories and advice! For the nosewheel I do think in maybe 10 hours I’d feel more capable, and I was ok on taxi and even landing. It was the takeoff as the speed was lower and rudder not quite effective that I would head a bit left then correct and head right and back and just prayed for rotation speed to get there quick! Never in any sort of danger but not something I’ve dealt with before. Somehow the landings were fine as still good speed and rudder authority, and as exiting the runway at higher than taxi speed felt good.

For takeoff run... start with airplane pointed about 10 degrees to the right of centerline. As power comes up, torque will pull airplane left and about the time it reaches centerline the rudder will become effective and you will start holding some right rudder to track straight. You'll also be holding right rudder in climb-out to keep the "ball" centered. I guess your right foot will be applying 1-2 lbs pressure to center the ball.

Just saw Scott's post - yes, for sure, lift the nose wheel early as possible and hold it off a few inches during the entire takeoff run. Airplane will simply levitate when its ready...
 
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When I talked to the experienced 15K hour instructor he advised against one for anything except local around the patch flights.

Baloney. I've been to 42 of the 48 lower states in mine before I retired from flying due to medical issues. I've owned Rockets, RVs, and LSAs. I thought the RV12 was one of the most enjoyable cross country machines that I flew.
 
When I talked to the experienced 15K hour instructor he advised against one for anything except local around the patch flights.

That's nonsense! I've flown mine half way around Australia. The 12 is a perfectly capable long distance flyer if that's what you want to do.
 
Flew with a friend in his RV-12 today? 88 KTS IAS, 111 KTS TAS, and 160 KTS GS (184MPH) - 49 KTS tail wind at 14,000 MSL and 16F OAT.

i2ua78.png
 
Dave,

Just because someone has impressive ratings and hours doesn?t mean much. I?m a CFI too, and every flight I still think more about what I don?t know than what I do. My best friend is a retired USAF fighter pilot and airline pilot. What has always impressed me about him is that safety comes before hubris with him.

The RV-12 is certainly more capable than a Cessna 150 or a J-3 Cub, and people routinely take them on long cross country flights. Maybe you should ask your 15000 hr CFI to explain the basis of his conclusion.

Rich
 
Another experience -- I picked up my new to me RV-12 south of Oklahoma City in April several years ago and flew west via Amarillo, Albuquerque, Gallup, Las Vegas, Henderson and up the eastern side of Oregon to SW Washington. 16 hours flight time doing 2.5 - 3 hour legs usually from 8500-10500, sometimes higher. I had 1 hour transition training, but did have 10 years flying an RV-3A and had 3 hours with Mike Seager in an RV-6 before flying the 3. Most of my flying has been 2.5 hour flights to and from Idaho.

As others have said, it's a very capable airplane.
 
Twice to Oshkosh flying my dad?s 12

The 12 hauled two normal sized adults from E16 in California to KOSH one year and from E16 to LL10 the next. And the fun factor was OFF the scale! The 12 is a very capable plane with excellent fuel economy to boot! :D
 
In an RV-12, ideal rotation speed is 20 - 25 MPH.
Once the nose is up and you are running on just the main wheels (ala soft field take-off) with the nose wheel just barely off ground, steering is only influenced by rudder and the rudder becomes about 30% more effective.
Hold that attitude an the airplane will fly off when it is ready.

In a left cross wind, this technique can mean the difference between a long take-off while dragging the R brake to stay straight, of a normal (or quite short depending on the actual wind direction) take-off.

Duly noted.... good information, this should be made a sticky.
 
A technique I learned from the Yak 52 I had was not to drag a brake, but use a series of short taps on the brake. I use that method for all but tight taxi turns and stop the turn by applying the opposite brake. A method learned from my Yak where I stopped in a turn using both brakes and ended up having to shutdown and manually center the castoring nose wheel because I was in tight quarters between hangar rows. Like they say: experience is what you get right after you needed it!😀
 
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