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Lost my Van's Bill of Sale

jeffw@sc47

Well Known Member
Clarification > likely not lost, maybe misplaced but I've scoured through so much stuff for the past week and no joy.

I remember being very careful to keep the BOS in a safe place where I would not lose it; I "recollect" keeping it in its original envelope, three ring punched the envelope, and put it in a three ring binder.

Can't find it, my bad - I accept, this is a huge, dumb, stupid thing to do.

Right now I am pulling together all of the FAA registration documents and completing the required forms.

Has anyone gone through losing their BOS? And, what was your remedy for this that is proper for FAA registration of a kit-built E-AB airplane.
 
Are you sure you had the actual Bill of Sale from Van's? They don't usually send it to you until you are ready to register the plane and have ordered all of the kits for the plane. You might want to check with Van's to see if they are waiting for you to request it from them.

Good luck
 
Yes it was Vans' final bill of sale.

I sent them the two forms; the request and the other one in September 2020 and they sent out the BoS to me in December 2020. Put it where I wouldn't lose it . . .
 
Yep, I would expect I'm not the first

Ask Van's for a duplicate copy??? You can't be the first guy to loose it.

I have done that and it is not going well.

There seems to be some sort of prohibition that does not allow Van's to reissue a BOS or to provide a copy of the BOS that they did send me, assuming they keep a copy - I would expect that they do keep copies. I am trying to get this resolved.
 
The Vans bill of sale should have "Aircraft" crossed out, and "Kit" inserted before; Talk to Barbara at Vans, she may be able to help. Regards,

DAR Gary
 
Sorry to hear about your misplaced BOS. Has anyone tried to record his or her Vans BOS with your city or county? Would that help to register the official document?
 
It's too late now for the OP, but the first thing I do with any important paperwork of any kind is to make a copy of it, print out the copy and store that with other important documents, and keep a scan of it on my computer. It may not be the *original* document, but if something happens to the original, I'd hope it would go a long way towards resolving any issues.
 
Copy or reissued original BOS for FAA registration

Yesterday an FAA rep in the Registration Branch told me that it is a requirement for registration of a kit built airplane to submit FAA Form AC8050-88 (Affidavit of Ownership for A-B Aircraft . . .) with the second box checked (built from kit parts), along with an attached Bill of Sale, AC8050-2.

And, that it is not correct and is unacceptable to submit AC8050-88 with the first box checked (built from miscellaneous parts) for a kit built. It may slip through the registration process, but if anything occurs in the future where the registration is an issue you might have a big problem.

AC8050-88 requires your signature and notarization, it needs to be factual. Checking the first box claiming that your complete Van's aircraft kit was built from miscellaneous parts would be false and is not a work-around for a lost BOS.

This also, the FAA rep I spoke to told me that a kit manufacturer is not prohibited in any way by the FAA to reissue a Bill of Sale, and that if the kit manufacturer wants to provide me with a scanned (.pdf), or copy of the original BOS that they could have on file - that is acceptable. A copy of the BOS (that does not have an inked signature) is acceptable for registration for a experimental aircraft (from plans or kit); an inked original is required for a certified aircraft.
 
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Misplaced

That happens - and when it does I can look right at it and not see it, so my procedure for Misplaced items is to clean up and organize. That makes my brain open to seeing what is there until I run across the (not invisible) item.

Sometimes it takes a while, but always works, and man does stuff get organized.

Good Luck!!
 
That happens - and when it does I can look right at it and not see it, so my procedure for Misplaced items is to clean up and organize. That makes my brain open to seeing what is there until I run across the (not invisible) item.

Bill, I will claim to be a card carrying member of the Clean Up and Organize Club, I have been practicing the 'getting organized' merit badge requirements for years - some days the magic works and on others it doesn't; no matter how many times I learn new lessons. I still don't have the merit badge, still have a way to go.
 
Jeff, you are spot on! I am a DAR in the Northwest, and yes, these documents get audited, and if the -88 appears to be false, the local FSDO
may get involved to nullify the C of A.

Regards,

Gary
 
Yesterday an FAA rep in the Registration Branch told me that it is a requirement for registration of a kit built airplane to submit FAA Form AC8050-88 (Affidavit of Ownership for A-B Aircraft . . .) with the second box checked (built from kit parts), along with an attached Bill of Sale, AC8050-2.

And, that it is not correct and is unacceptable to submit AC8050-88 with the first box checked (built from miscellaneous parts) for a kit built. It may slip through the registration process, but if anything occurs in the future where the registration is an issue you might have a big problem.

AC8050-88 requires your signature and notarization, it needs to be factual. Checking the first box claiming that your complete Van's aircraft kit was built from miscellaneous parts would be false and is not a work-around for a lost BOS.

This also, the FAA rep I spoke to told me that a kit manufacturer is not prohibited in any way by the FAA to reissue a Bill of Sale, and that if the kit manufacturer wants to provide me with a scanned (.pdf), or copy of the original BOS that they could have on file - that is acceptable. A copy of the BOS (that does not have an inked signature) is acceptable for registration for a experimental aircraft (from plans or kit); an inked original is required for a certified aircraft.
I don't understand why vans will not send you a copy of the bill of sale. If you need a FAA publication to help support your position with Vans it is here https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/media/Aircraft%20Registration%20and%20Recordation%20Processes.pdf Section 3.4 page 126
In response to a request by the National Transportation Safety Board, effective October 1, 1998, the builder of an aircraft built from a kit must also submit a bill of sale from the manufacturer of the kit. The serial number on the kit bill of sale can be different than the serial number listed on the -88 and the application. Signatures on the kit bill of sale do not need to be signed in ink or be a printed duplicate of an electronic document that displays an acceptable legible digital signature. Photocopies are acceptable since a kit bill of sale is not recordable.

There is a process in section 3.3 of the document above Affidavit in Lieu of Recordable Evidence of Ownership but unfortunately it applies to "Aircraft" never registered and not a kit. But, there must be a process to register a kit if you cannot get a bill of sale. What if the kit manufacturer no longer exists or is out of business.
 
You can get a copy

They can issue a copy. Jasmine Garcia of Van's told me last year that they lost some Bills of Sale in the post because of the pandemic. Contact her at [email protected] See the e-mail she sent me below after mine got lost.

Hello Martin,

Thank you for sending in this statement. We have issued a new 8050-2 for you and were able to get it signed today. Unfortunately my President was quite busy today and I was not able to get that done early enough to get it included in todays mail. However, it will be shipped out to you via Priority Mail tomorrow.

Best Regards,

Jasmine Garcia
Account and Documentation Specialist, Van’s Aircraft, Inc.
 
I have a friend who is trying to get a bill of sale from Vans. He was told that he is not eligible because he did not buy "all" the kits from Vans.
This can't be right. I know lots of people who bought kit projects from other people and did not buy all the kits from Vans.
Also there are other people who had their own materials such as FWF stuff and did not need those parts from Vans.

There has to be some kind of miscommunications here. What does he need to do to get a BOS for registration?
 
I have a friend who is trying to get a bill of sale from Vans. He was told that he is not eligible because he did not buy "all" the kits from Vans.
This can't be right. I know lots of people who bought kit projects from other people and did not buy all the kits from Vans.
Also there are other people who had their own materials such as FWF stuff and did not need those parts from Vans.

There has to be some kind of miscommunications here. What does he need to do to get a BOS for registration?

This is going to be a problem if you purchase a partial RV4 so you can build a F1 or a Harmon rocket.
 
I have a friend who is trying to get a bill of sale from Vans. He was told that he is not eligible because he did not buy "all" the kits from Vans.
This can't be right. I know lots of people who bought kit projects from other people and did not buy all the kits from Vans.
Also there are other people who had their own materials such as FWF stuff and did not need those parts from Vans.

There has to be some kind of miscommunications here. What does he need to do to get a BOS for registration?

This sounds like someone has confused the rules for ELSA with EAB. You do in fact have to buy all the parts from Vans for an ELSA. For an EAB you should only need a builder number to get a bill of sale.
 
I have a friend who is trying to get a bill of sale from Vans. He was told that he is not eligible because he did not buy "all" the kits from Vans.
This can't be right. I know lots of people who bought kit projects from other people and did not buy all the kits from Vans.
Also there are other people who had their own materials such as FWF stuff and did not need those parts from Vans.

There has to be some kind of miscommunications here. What does he need to do to get a BOS for registration?

It seems to vary a lot by who you talk to. You are supposed to transfer second-hand kits into your builder number. I bought some of my kits from Vans and some second-hand. When the time came, they couldn't even find the kits I purchased from them in the system. They still issued the BOS without any complaints.
 
This sounds like someone has confused the rules for ELSA with EAB. You do in fact have to buy all the parts from Vans for an ELSA. For an EAB you should only need a builder number to get a bill of sale.

That was my first thought as well, but he confronted the person and she told him it didn't matter.
 
Nope, it's an RV-8. The only change he's made is the "ShowPlanes" fast-back mod.

This is a very drastic stance from Vans because the Show Plane fast back is a popular mod for the RV8. I also notice since last year, there are a lot of new people hired into Vans and there is a learning curve for them. On occasions, I had to make a few extra calls to the factory to clear up things. For something that costs as much as a house down payment, perhaps it's time to elevate to someone higher up.
 
Very interested in this thread as I’m getting close to finishing. Vans reps out there what say you? Thanks
 
I started my -9A build with an empennage and wing kit started by another builder. I transferred the builder number and bought the rest of the kits from Vans. No problem getting the documents I needed from Vans for the Airworthiness Certificate.
 
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