What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

iPad and Foreflight

RV8iator

Well Known Member
Benefactor
I was using my iPad and Foreflight on a flight up to Traverse City last week and encountered a situation that could have gotten me in trouble.

I had built a trip kit the night before consisting of all the approach plates, taxi diagrams and DP's and stars for the airports I was planning on using on the way up. What I didn't notice was that the cycle for the plates expired on June 29th with the new cycle starting on the 30th, the day I was leaving.

Everything was going smoothly until I tried to pull up the airport diagram for destination and the Foreflight said no data available and no internet connection. Had it been real IFR i'd have been SOL since I didn't have paper charts. I know I should have, but this was why I had filed on a clear day to test the iPad/Foreflight system.. Glad I did.

Now, is this the way Foreflight works? I will always check cycle dates in the future, but you could get in a bind flying out in the system on a multiday trip if your charts get dumped into the electronic trash bin on expiration day. Also, the airport I landed at, Dayton Wright Brothers Field had wifi, but boy was it slow. It took 20 minutes to download Ohio and Michigan.. Another lesson learned here.. Download early at home.

Just thought I would throw this out to see if I did something wrong in Foreflight, or does it really dump all your data on cycle change day.

All in all though, I love the SA that Foreflight gives you enroute. I have a bluetooth GPS that worked perfectly, and when I turned it off to save the battery, the GPS in the iPad never missed a beat.

The screen was adequate with the sunshade pulled up. It was never unusable, but could always have been brighter. I really liked have all the information available. I do have the PRO subscription so the moving map on the approach plates and taxiway diagrams is outstanding.

Would I buy it all again? You bet!
 
I get a download 'badge' on the Foreflight icon when chart updates are ready -- not sure how early it shows up, but I usually see them before the expiration date.
 
no - doesn't work that way.

I think someone from foreflight monitors the list and may comment. Once charts are downloaded, they stay on the machine until replaced by newer charts.

I just verified this. My charts are old, and I'm able to view everything. I do get warned that the data is expired, but that's a good thing.

BTW, Aviation Consumer just awarded Foreflight "Gear of the Year: Best App". I don't work for them - just a fan of the app and the guys that build it.

Don
 
Yes, mine stay on after they're expired also, until new data is downloaded and becomes effective.

The new database is usually available 8-10 days before the cycle change.
 
I think (but not absolutely 100% sure) that you get that message if you leave the wifi & cellular data enabled when you go fly without putting your Ipad/Iphone into airplane mode.....at least thats how mine works.

As others have said, the expired charts (if downloaded) don't dissapear and are availabe oir use. I know that because I was lloking at charts in the air on Saturday that have been expired for weeks.

Thats my take, but ther are many people here much smarter than me who'll know the details.

Cheers,
Stein
 
What the others said...

They do not automatically delete themselves.
The software will prompt you when new ones are ready for download.
The new ones are ready at least a week before the old ones expire.
Stein may be correct, will have to test.
 
I may be wrong but I think the key words in the whole posting was "no internet connection".

Try turning the cellular data switch off (in settings).

For some reason in the back of my mind, something in mine didn't work properly until that was switched off.

Also, if memory serves correctly, the GPS doesn't work in airplane mode and wifi setting didn't affect it.
 
Last edited:
Any other idea

why they would not display?

I had 3 other trip "Binders" under the plates button and those were all grayed out also.

I also searched airports and reselected the plates and got the message "Data not available". I had downloaded all the states that I thought I would fly over and could not pull up any plates. The charts were still there but had a different void date.

Is there something in the settings of Foreflight that I need to change?

Thanks for all the info on this.
 
Airplane mode isn't for our flying - it's for when you're a passenger in a commercial aircraft and they say that if you've got gear that has an "airplane" mode, you can use it if that's invoked.
 
I think (but not absolutely 100% sure) that you get that message if you leave the wifi & cellular data enabled when you go fly without putting your Ipad/Iphone into airplane mode.....at least thats how mine works.
......
Cheers,
Stein

If you have a 3G iPad and utilize the internal GPS, you do NOT want to put it in airplane mode. Airplane mode also disables the GPS, you should instead manually disable WiFi and cellular data.

The WiFi only iPad does not have a built in GPS so with that model you can use Airplane mode.
 
I have experienced exactly the same situation several times while flying our Baron 58 and found a solution that works 100% of the time... Go to AOPA or any other free chart service that allows you to upload PDF files. open and save them to be open using I books. (I use an Ipad 2) Once saved, you can put them in any order you want and retrieve them as needed....no internet connection, no need to pay foreflight anymore either.... if you use the WIFI only Ipad, this is the best and most cost effective solution. it is labor intense but not any worse than your normal trip preparation should be anyway...
 
If you have a 3G iPad and utilize the internal GPS, you do NOT want to put it in airplane mode. Airplane mode also disables the GPS, you should instead manually disable WiFi and cellular data.

The WiFi only iPad does not have a built in GPS so with that model you can use Airplane mode.

Absolutely correct. I sort of grayed those two together without explanation....

Cheers,
Stein
 
iPad lock ups

Numerous times I seen my iPad2 "lock up" and not be able to access features. Down powering the unit (hold the sleep key until power down screen comes on), leave it off for a minute, then boot it up again. That has always fixed any problems.

A couple days ago this happened to me in the air on an IFR flight. Discovered when GPS position on the chart wasn't updating. I was not a happy camper.

A person should down power it just before using it in the airplane to mitigate a lock up in the air.

I'm thinking there appears to be some instability in the current OS.
 
If you have not opened or downloaded the chart(s) before takeoff, you will probably not have it in flight. Make sure you have downloaded everything you need prior to takeoff. Otherwise you might not get a 3G signal while flying and the program can't download the data you need at that critical point.

I fly a lot with my iPad and Foreflight so i download all the charts, maps and AFD all the time. It is better to have them and not need them, than need them and not have them. Besides they don't take up that much memory.

:cool:
 
If you have a 3G iPad and utilize the internal GPS, you do NOT want to put it in airplane mode. Airplane mode also disables the GPS, you should instead manually disable WiFi and cellular data.

The WiFi only iPad does not have a built in GPS so with that model you can use Airplane mode.

AFAIK the airplane mode does NOT disable the GPS in the 3G models. The iPad uses the 3G to make initial GPS position calculation faster but it has a completely independent real GPS chip built in so it does not need the 3G to work.

I fly a lot with my 3G iPad 1 and always use the airplane mode since it seems to access the data faster that way. :cool:
 
Last edited:
This might be a good time to start this discussion about using the Ipad
for approach charts. A friend was doing a IFR check ride in a Cirrus
and was doing his final approach and the examiner took his Ipad and turned it off and then put it in the back seat. He then asked him were was his backup paper charts. He had none. The instructor then asked him were was the nearest VFR weather he did not know. He was under the hood. He did not pass. The examiner said that you still need to carry paper with you to be legal.
This has been a big discussion at my airport the last month.
Also another friend had lunch with one of our local FAA people and they said
that for IFR to be legal you must have either 2 Ipads or charts available
in your PFD display. This was for part 91 not 135 they were talking about.
They say you still need to have the paper back-up or 2 EFB.

FWIW
Geoff
 
TFR's

I've been comparing WingX to Foreflight and noticed that Foreflight does not locate TFR's on the charts. WingX does locate TFR's on their charts and I have found this to be immensely helpful. Is this truly the way Foreflight operates or is there a way to display TFR's?
 
Two questions:

1) Are you folks using the GPS dongle with your iPad or just using the internal GPS in the iPad?

2) What if you have a dual Garmin G3X system and an iPad, does that give the redundancy that the examiner wants?
 
Grrrrrrrrrr.......

This might be a good time to start this discussion about using the Ipad
for approach charts. A friend was doing a IFR check ride in a Cirrus
and was doing his final approach and the examiner took his Ipad and turned it off and then put it in the back seat. He then asked him were was his backup paper charts. He had none. The instructor then asked him were was the nearest VFR weather he did not know. He was under the hood. He did not pass. The examiner said that you still need to carry paper with you to be legal.
This has been a big discussion at my airport the last month.
Also another friend had lunch with one of our local FAA people and they said
that for IFR to be legal you must have either 2 Ipads or charts available
in your PFD display. This was for part 91 not 135 they were talking about.
They say you still need to have the paper back-up or 2 EFB.

FWIW
Geoff

:mad: Here we go again, FAA folks not knowing their own regs. Have them read AC 91.78. It clearly states that an EFB does not need paper or electronic backups of any kind for IFR or VFR part 91 ops.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...c685650a0486257321006b3b8c/$FILE/AC 91_78.pdf
 
AFAIK the airplane mode does NOT disable the GPS in the 3G models. The iPad uses the 3G to make initial GPS position calculation faster but it has a completely independent real GPS chip built in so it does not need the 3G to work.

I fly a lot with my 3G iPad 1 and always use the airplane mode since it seems to access the data faster that way. :cool:

I think you should verify that. Even the current version of Foreflight will prompt you to turn off Airplane mode when you start it with Airplane mode turned on.

The iPad/iPhone GPS engine is part of the 3G chipset and Airplane Mode is a big switch that shuts it all (3G/GPS & WiFi) down. Yes it is a "real" GPS but still part of the 3G chipset. I think all the discussions about WiFi positioning, A-GPS verses "real" GPS has got you turned around. If it was completely independent, there would be a GPS in the WiFi only iPad.

Airplane mode "seems to access the data faster"? --really? This is a new one and there is absolutely no reason this should be so. But then perception is a subjective thing --kind of like your airplane flies faster when you use Goodyear as opposed to Michelin tires.
 
AFAIK the airplane mode does NOT disable the GPS in the 3G models. The iPad uses the 3G to make initial GPS position calculation faster but it has a completely independent real GPS chip built in so it does not need the 3G to work.

I fly a lot with my 3G iPad 1 and always use the airplane mode since it seems to access the data faster that way. :cool:

I think you should verify that. Even the current version of Foreflight will prompt you to turn off Airplane mode when you start it with Airplane mode turned on.

The iPad/iPhone GPS engine is part of the 3G chipset and Airplane Mode is a big switch that shuts it all (3G/GPS & WiFi) down. Yes it is a "real" GPS but still part of the 3G chipset. I think all the discussions about WiFi positioning, A-GPS verses "real" GPS has got you turned around. If it was completely independent, there would be a GPS in the WiFi only iPad.

--- snip ---

I just checked my iPad 2. I went to Airplane Mode (standing outside my hangar) and it LOST GPS position. I got a NO GPS FIX in ForeFlight.
 
Foreflight vs Wing X Pro

I've been comparing WingX to Foreflight and noticed that Foreflight does not locate TFR's on the charts. WingX does locate TFR's on their charts and I have found this to be immensely helpful. Is this truly the way Foreflight operates or is there a way to display TFR's?

Todd,

I used Foreflight for only 30 days. The big feature that FF had was being able to rubber band your route. TFR's are located in a tab across the bottom, you have to scroll thru states to find any in your state but it won't appear on your moving map.
Wing X Pro has TFRs on the moving map and now, with the latest update, you can also rubber band your route course line.
 
Todd,

I used Foreflight for only 30 days. The big feature that FF had was being able to rubber band your route. TFR's are located in a tab across the bottom, you have to scroll thru states to find any in your state but it won't appear on your moving map.
Wing X Pro has TFRs on the moving map and now, with the latest update, you can also rubber band your route course line.

Can you please explain what is meant by the verb to "rubber band"? I have tried both FF and WingX, and I greatly preferred WingX. But I don't know this term.
brian
 
Can you please explain what is meant by the verb to "rubber band"? I have tried both FF and WingX, and I greatly preferred WingX. But I don't know this term.
brian

If you enter a flight from any airport to any airport.

For example: KCCB KAPV
ForeFlight draws a line on the map from KCCB to KAPV. Now place your finger on the line and drag the line to L26. That is the "Rubber Band" and just added L26 as a waypoint on the way from KCCB to KAPV.
 
I use the "rubber band" flight planning feature nearly every trip. Then again, I'm flying VFR so I have a bit more flexibility than an IFR trip.

I typically enter my departure and arrival airports. Next I zoom out to see if I will have conflicts with class B airspace, MOAs, etc. I look for near by Jacques and airports I dan use as waypoints to avoid the worst of the airspace issues. Finally, I press and hold my finger on the track line nearest where I want to change my flight path. FF will change the line color and I can drag that part of the line to the intermediate waypoint. FF lists the closest choices and I pick th one I mean. FF then inserts it into my plan. It will also let you use an arbitrary point if you wish.

I looked at WinhX Pro about 6 months ago. I've not looked recently. I also looked at Garmin's Pilot-my-Cast. The Garmin offering had some nice features.
 
Thanks for the "rubber banding" info. It's pretty cool, although it doesn't do it on my WingX. All WingX does is move the map when I do that.

I can add any airport with WingX by tapping on on the hot spot for each airport. If I want to add a VFR waypoint or checkpoint, I have to type it in manually in the route list.

FF does have some cool things better than WingX, like being able to add any point at all (user-defined lat/lon) to a route, but overall I'm still preferring WingX. I'm currently using both. I have the Garmin app also, but I used it a bit & didn't find it very intuitive or easy to use. Probably with more time practicing with it and getting to know their symbology, instead of named button labels, it might seem better.
 
FF bug

During Obama's last trip to Miami, I was getting ready to go fly and wanted to check out the presidential TFR that I knew was in effect. Foreflight did not have the TFR listed. I sent them an email and they acknowledged a bug, asked a few questions, and promptly never got back to me about the cause or any potential fix.

It's a great product, but a call to FSS is cheap insurance for your ticket!

Chunk
 
This might be a good time to start this discussion about using the Ipad
for approach charts. A friend was doing a IFR check ride in a Cirrus
and was doing his final approach and the examiner took his Ipad and turned it off and then put it in the back seat. He then asked him were was his backup paper charts. He had none. The instructor then asked him were was the nearest VFR weather he did not know. He was under the hood. He did not pass. The examiner said that you still need to carry paper with you to be legal.
This has been a big discussion at my airport the last month.
Also another friend had lunch with one of our local FAA people and they said
that for IFR to be legal you must have either 2 Ipads or charts available
in your PFD display. This was for part 91 not 135 they were talking about.
They say you still need to have the paper back-up or 2 EFB.

FWIW
Geoff

The examiner was wrong. It happens.
 
How do you download?

Group,

I just installed the trial version of Foreflight and can't figure out how to download charts or plates. I went into the download manager and anything I select pops up a note stating i need to purchase a plan. I have created an account and signed in, but it still says i need to purchase a plan. How do you download charts in the trial version?

Thanks!
 
One at a time

in the trial version. I saw it stated somewhere in the info. You don't get to do mass download on the trial version.
Dale
Sport SX, Ipad2, Ipaq 4700, Bad Elf (on Ipod Touch), GPS196, Byonic, Wrist Garmin; Count em, 7 GPSs :D
 
Wing X - Synthetic Vision

WingX keeps adding high end functionality--first weather and now Synthetic Vision.


WingX Pro7 with Synthetic Vision
San Jose, CA - July 19, 2011: Hilton Software LLC today announced the addition of Synthetic Vision to its flagship WingX Pro7 for iPad product. WingX Pro7's new Synthetic Vision depicts 3D terrain using its high-resolution terrain database, obstacles using a comprehensive obstacle database, and airport runways. Terrain and obstacles that are above or slightly below the airplane's altitude are shaded red and yellow respectively. Also displayed are speed and altitude tapes and a Zero Pitch Line that shows the aircraft's altitude in relation to nearby terrain. Pilots can move to any airport in the country and can look around the airport in all directions and at all altitudes by sliding their finger over the Synthetic Vision view. This enables pilots to visualize a preferred route of arrival or departure for the airport. The Synthetic Vision can be displayed full-screen or simultaneously with other charts such as a VFR sectional or geo-referenced approach chart using WingX Pro7's unique split screen view.
 
in the trial version. I saw it stated somewhere in the info. You don't get to do mass download on the trial version.
Dale
Sport SX, Ipad2, Ipaq 4700, Bad Elf (on Ipod Touch), GPS196, Byonic, Wrist Garmin; Count em, 7 GPSs :D

Thanks Dale. I don't need to do a mass download. How do you do a single sectional download? I can't get anything to download. I have an email in to Foreflight, but no answer yet.
 
For an additional $99.00 a year. Plus it has been hinted this may only work with the iPad2 since it has more processing power.
Pave Tim,

I can assure it works just fine on the iPad 1. The iPad2 has dual cores so the terrain data will load faster and it's GPU is 9x more powerful so it can do more complex antialiasing, but those are the only differences. We were very careful to have a fully functional experience on he iPad1.

You can read more on our web site at http://www.ba3.us/

-Bruce
CEO, BA3 LLC
 
I think I found it

I was perusing the manual with Foreflight and ran across this little jewel. It answers my question in post #1 here.

If you are not connected and haven't updated the databases, Foreflight will dump the plates (not the charts, they tell you they are expired, but still show up) you have saved in your trip kit. I tried it last night when the new plates became active and it would not display my old plates. I simulated being inflight by not letting 3g or cell data work like it is in flight.
Result on my iPad 2 were blank plates. Not a good thing.
See 2nd paragraph, Ensuring your plates don't expire.

5987293107_09f2a78be4_b.jpg
 
Last edited:
I think you should verify that. Even the current version of Foreflight will prompt you to turn off Airplane mode when you start it with Airplane mode turned on.

The iPad/iPhone GPS engine is part of the 3G chipset and Airplane Mode is a big switch that shuts it all (3G/GPS & WiFi) down. Yes it is a "real" GPS but still part of the 3G chipset. I think all the discussions about WiFi positioning, A-GPS verses "real" GPS has got you turned around. If it was completely independent, there would be a GPS in the WiFi only iPad.

Airplane mode "seems to access the data faster"? --really? This is a new one and there is absolutely no reason this should be so. But then perception is a subjective thing --kind of like your airplane flies faster when you use Goodyear as opposed to Michelin tires.


William, I agree with you. I think this is the case with the ipad 3g/gps chipset. Which is the the same that is in the iphone 4.

I would recommend just getting one of the bluetooth gps units. They work anytime (as long as they are charged :) . But then you need to have your bluetooth enabled. The bad elf is also a option that plugs into the ipod connector on the bottom and does not use bluetooth.
 
Back
Top