Cheap Complete Strobe System

Lux III

I used 4 Lux III in cyan and red on mine and drove them at 700ma. They are plenty bright and do not get hot at all. The setup with taxi lights is pretty clean looking, too. IMHO......

Did some info searching. Still don't have any idea about the viscosity and exotherm of Arctic Silver, but apparently there are castable heat sink epoxies:

http://www.insulcast.com/epoxy/index.html

Where am I going with this? If a single Lux III (or brighter) will satisfy the tail light requirements, it should be easy to cast one into a nice little fixture that would then epoxy to the trailing edge of the rudder....which is darn sure enough heat sink.

DanH said:

Thinking about the tail light. Mike, does your spreadsheet indicate that a single white Luxeon III might satisfy the tail requirement? I'm guessing a LuxIII is bright enough at peak, but maybe not bright enough at the 140 degree edge.

Click to expand...

Per the datasheet, the Lambertian Lux III has 25% to 45% intensity at 70 deg from the center axis. Some sort of diffuser lens or multiple stars would be helpful, although I think a single Lux III would work. You might be better off with 2x Lux I or III star, each at about 15 deg from the normal axis. Using two stars isn't a problem since you would still be using a single driver.

Castable Thermal Epoxy

Second item. I've not worked with the thermal epoxy (Arctic Alumina?) used to mount stars on a heat sink. Here's the question (hello Sparky!); do you think you could cast this epoxy?

Click to expand...

Dan, I, quite frankly, don't know if Artctic Alumina is "castable" or not . All documentation directs you to use as thin an application as possible to increase the thermal conductivity properties....interesting concept, however.

Also, since I've seen Mike Behnke's model and taking into consideration other comments on this thread by "The Other Doug Reeves" and others, I am rethinking my planned installation. My installation of the GREEN Luxeon I's for the starboard side meet the FAR requirements with only three LEDs mounted only on the forward-facing surface of the wingtip cutout. Adding the three planned additional LEDs on the inboard surface may actually cause non-compliance due to the maximum allowable levels beyond 110 degrees . Conversely, the three RED Luxeons I's mounted on the forward facing surface alone do not meet the minumum levels, but, adding three more on the inboard surface, again, may meet minimums but exceed maximums . So I am reconsidering my design . I may just go with only the three Luxeon I's currently installed on the forward-facing starboard side and not add the three I had planned on the inboard surface. For the port side I am now thinking of going with just three red Luxeon III LEDs driven at 700 mA mounted on the forward-facing surface. This should provide a good overall distribution meeting all FAR requirements without compromizing asthetics. I haven't yet calculated if additional heatsinking would be required.

I have not even considered using high brightness LEDs to replace the white nav/strobe lights on the tail because I already have a Whelen tail/strobe combo light and doubt that I could come up with anything elegant to replace it in the same footprint.

This has turned out to be a very intriguing thread. Thanks go out to Mike Behnke for providing a very useful tool !

thermal epoxy

I have experience with thermal epoxy from work. It is "thermal" in the sense that it carries heat with less loss (lower thermal resistance) than regular epoxy. It is still "lossy" meaning it has non-zero thermal resistance. It is often much more "lossy" than metal. Usually the manufacturer specifies a maximum bond thickness (often 0.010 inch). Beyond that the thermal resistances greatly increase.

Remember that you moving the heat from where it is generated (the LED junction) to elsewhere. It needs to either be conducted away (heating a structure), or convected away (heating air which rises away, like with a finned heatsink). Usually a combination of both. The use of thermal epoxy under the LED is just the first step in getting heat out of the packaged LED. It still has to go somewhere.

If you have still air, you can figure the size of a flat plate (conduction heatsink). There are also tables for finned (conduction/convection) heatsinks in still air and in moving air (so many CFM of airflow).

What I plan to do is to test my thermal design by measuring the heatsink temperature (steady state with LEDs on) - then you can easily calculate the junction temperature and see how close you are. Worst case has got to be sitting on the ground (turn off the NAV lights!) on a hot summer day.

By the way, the same thing is true of the white thermal compounds: Less is more - use it to fill the microscopic voids in the metal parts you are joining. Put it on, then scrape 99% off with a razor blade. If you put a big dollop on, your thermal resistances actually go up.

I'd buy a Luxeon wingtip kit if it came with a documented approach to both the thermal and optical (FARs) designs.

Good luck to all, this is an awesome thread,

Ditto

IowaRV9Dreamer,

Ditto. I couldn't have said it any better...

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Dave. The Arctic Silver website states "Superior thermal conductivity. Greater than 7.5 W/mK". After reading your reply I searched up some W/mK comparison data for common heat sink metals:

Silver: 417 W/m K
Copper: 394 W/m K
Gold: 291 W/m K
Aluminum: 217 W/m K

Sheesh! Compared to metals the stuff barely conducts any heat at all.

Well, so much for that idea. A taillight fixture will need to be metal, not cast epoxy, if heat transfer is important. Use thermal epoxy in thin films only, the thinner the better. More lessons learned <g>

RudiGreyling said:

Hi Guys,

The special is on at the moment: $160 for a 60Watt, 4 head upgradable to 6, multipattern, 5 Year Guarentee. Normal price is $240. It looks like the unit is manufactured by Nova, cause it has the same form factor, product ID numbering etc. The talk is Nova was started by ex Whelen employees, so it should be good. Nova Reference Site: www.strobe.com.

Do you own homework and decide if it will work for you...

Click to expand...

OK I'm trying to do my homework, but I ain't to bright

will this system work as a power source for the the whelen taillight/strobe combo?

DanH said:

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Dave. The Arctic Silver website states "Superior thermal conductivity. Greater than 7.5 W/mK". After reading your reply I searched up some W/mK comparison data for common heat sink metals:

Silver: 417 W/m K
Copper: 394 W/m K
Gold: 291 W/m K
Aluminum: 217 W/m K

Sheesh! Compared to metals the stuff barely conducts any heat at all.

Click to expand...

Remember that the point of thermal paste/epoxy is to fill in voids in the metal-metal contact and provide adhesion. The layer is very, very thin - maybe 0.1mm. Arctic silver is good stuff when used properly. It's commonly used between CPUs and copper heatsinks.

Just found some new sources for high luminosity LEDs:

www.zled.com (Seoul Semiconductor) - Look for P4
www.avagotech.com/led - Look for ASMT-MW20
www.osram-os.com - Look for Dragons and Ostar

Here is also some shops where to get LEDs in Europe:

www.ultraleds.co.uk
www.uk.conrad.com
http://uk.farnell.com
www.dotlight.de
www.ebv.com
www.led1.de/shop
www.lumitronix.com

These were found from Elektor electronics -magazine February issue 2007.

Many manufacturers already tell how much lumens their product will produce per watt. However that is not everything. Just noticed that there is some small Luxeon LEDs which might have superior lumens per volume or foot print ratings compared to others... So why use one big LED if you can replace it with bunch of smaller with better performance in same volume or foot print. Ok, I'll admit that the price may go to skies.

Strobes N' More non-delivery

Has anyone had a problem with Strobes N' More? I ordered last month, card was charged but received no shipping notice, no reply to my e-mail of Monday and I tried the other e-mail address on their site too.

Didn't notice

My order arrived in a few days with only 2 or so auto-generated emails.

I think 1 from them and 1 from UPS saying it shipped.

ronoc74 said:

Has anyone had a problem with Strobes N' More? I ordered last month, card was charged but received no shipping notice, no reply to my e-mail of Monday and I tried the other e-mail address on their site too.

Click to expand...

Why dont you try their phone? Emails to businesses never get quick responses.

401-348-0141

-Jeff

I got mine in just a couple of days. I'd give them a call.

I too got mine very quickly.

You guys in the USA are so lucky...I was first to order told you about it, and mine is still on the big blue pond in a ship on the way to me in South Africa... mine should arrive end of april. Let me know what you guys think of them when you connect them up

Regards
Rudi

the strobes and more system

i am interested in the strobes and more system (pro series 606) that you guys are recommending.

my question is who is using the system and are they having problems with the strobe sound on the radio?

currently, i am comparing the aeroflash system that puts the power units in the end of the wings and would prefer to go with the pro series because it is much cheaper. the noise is a deal killer.

thanks for your help....

What about this system. It looks like the strobe tubes just snap in place.

http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/70/2043.htm?248

briand said:

What about this system. It looks like the strobe tubes just snap in place.

http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/70/2043.htm?248

Click to expand...

Looks pretty good. I think we'd still need to buy a self contained position/strobe head for the rudder but perhaps we could use the powerpack shown for that along with the two strobe heads for the wing tips. (?) It looks like they have a lot of differents systems that would work, though.

I'm just now finally starting to get serious about deciding on position/strobe light systems so any updates on what's out there right now and what works, would be much appreciated!

One specific question: how many watts should we be looking for in a strobe system?

I got to thinking the wire harnesses that come with these are most likely NOT using Tefzel. Are you guys making your own or just using the stock stuff?

Inexpensive Strobe system ?

I installed the Nova X-PAC 904 strobe system for a very good price. Unfortunately the flash apparently has too much energy for my Whelan strobes and I burned out three strobes in 150 hours. I now operate the unit on "Low" flash and have had no further problems. A friend suggested that the unit is really designed for emergency vehicles that have more robust flash tubes.
Leland

LED Recognition Lights

Mostly on topic with the thread, but the new Cirrus G3s are using LED-based recognition lights in the leading edges. I haven't found any real detailed info other than photos and a reference to "9W" leds.

Looking at the photos (below), I'm guessing that these are 2x Luxeon III LEDs with a small reflector and no optics. The whole setup would draw about 1A per side - very little. It should put out about 200 lumens total, which, depending on the reflectors, should be very visible. From what I can tell, they are putting them in both wingtips, which begs the questions of whether they will make a wig-wag available.

The low current draw is a big plus in my mind. It means less load on the alternator (which may not be making full power during decent / approach), smaller wiring and a very low chance of a burnt out light. We have found out the hard way that using the 100W landing light in the CT is problematic - the Rotax alternator doesn't make much power at low RPM, and it's easy to drain your battery down.

I'm thinking of using the new style W-715-1 wingtips and instead of installing Van's MR16-based landing lights, put 2x or 3x Lux III under each cover and a duckworks light in the leading edge. This should give PLENTY of light for taxi and recognition (particularly with a wig-wag) with low current draw. Total parts for 4x LuxIII and 2x drivers is less than $100.

From the Cirrus G3 Website:
Recognition Lights ? The Generation Three?s new leading-edge wing tip recognition lights enhance ground visibility at night during the taxi, take off and landing phases of flight to better illuminate what's in front of you. While you're in flight, the recognition lights make you more visible to other pilots, even during daylight hours.

the_other_dougreeves said:

I'm thinking of using the new style W-715-1 wingtips and instead of installing Van's MR16-based landing lights, put 2x or 3x Lux III under each cover and a duckworks light in the leading edge. This should give PLENTY of light for taxi and recognition (particularly with a wig-wag) with low current draw. Total parts for 4x LuxIII and 2x drivers is less than $100.

Click to expand...

I'm thinking of pretty much the exact same thing, so let me know how yours turns out if you beat me to it. An aluminum plate for a heatsink seems like it would be a good idea there.

mcb

mburch said:

I'm thinking of pretty much the exact same thing, so let me know how yours turns out if you beat me to it. An aluminum plate for a heatsink seems like it would be a good idea there.

mcb

Click to expand...

I'm easily 6-9 months away from that stage

Doesn't the "back" of the wingtip light inset have an aluminum plate that you could mount the stars to? Either that, or fab up a plate to fit the space? That should be plenty of heat sink, provided it's tied into the wing.

Here is a photo (from Van's) that shows the RV-10 arrangement; I understand that the W-715-1 arrangement is similar. Instead of installing the Van's projector bulb kit, I'd put the Luxeons there.

Let's not leave this thread yet. Just found another interesting LED manufacturer Edison Opto at http://www.edison-opto.com.tw/

At least some of these seems to be easily available in Europe and EdiPower serie in particular seems to be interesting although radiation pattern and driving voltages may put some challenge.

This is all I've done for LED lights since I last wrote to this thread. Although it seems to be good tactic as future of bright LEDs seem to be bright... Anyone else any progress?

AeroLEDs has introduced a taxi/recognition/landing light module. This appears to be made from 8 x Lux III emitters, some with wide and some with narrow angle lenses (some appear to have the 5 x 20 deg pattern). This is a hyped up version of the idea we were throwing around on this thread some time ago. Not cheap at $500/ea or $850/pair.

Looks Promising.

the_other_dougreeves said:

AeroLEDs has introduced a taxi/recognition/landing light module. This appears to be made from 8 x Lux III emitters, some with wide and some with narrow angle lenses (some appear to have the 5 x 20 deg pattern). This is a hyped up version of the idea we were throwing around on this thread some time ago. Not cheap at $500/ea or $850/pair.


I saw these at OSH also. They look pretty good and I'm leaning in that direction. I do have a concern about the single mount/pivot point on each side though. I'm afraid they may want to droop due to vibration or taxiing on rough fields. I think they would be better if they were to put two attach points on each side; I.E., a pivot point low and then a slotted point above for setting the angle of the beam... I also asked them about LED Nav's. They said they were working on them but that it would be about 6 months before they come to market.

Click to expand...

I just run into another "interesting" project. Light sabre:

http://www.thought-criminal.org/tags/intelligent-optical-systems

How about having light sabres at wing tips? I think we should study seriously anything that makes a lot of light. How expensive and easy this might be implement we shall see that later.

No droop lock-washers

I just wanted to respond to the concern about the mounting of the AeroLEDs AeroSUN product. The mounting screws are 1/4-20 anodized screws with anodized steel lockwashers. When the screws fully compress the lock washer, the unit is locked down very tightly. We do not believe that vibration or shock will be capable of rotating the unit with this mounting scheme. We flew our Kitfox 7A from EUL to OSH and back with our lights running full time in wig-wag mode, and they did not budge from the set position. We put about 14 hours on the plane each way, for a total of 28 hours of flight time.

One other note, we are interested in offering a discount to Van's Airforce members, and will be contacting the webmaster on this site to look into a link to a special discount page exclusively for members of Van's Airforce.

Dean Wilkinson
AeroLEDs LLC

Another brand for bright LEDs: http://www.cree.com/products/xlamp.asp

However I was only able to find white LEDs.

Hello.
I am the guy who started GS-Air in 2003. I eventually sold the company and moved on to a ...different life...!
I am now building an RV-7A.
I just want to say a couple of things about the NOVA strobe drivers.
1: They are excellent.
The number indicate the power and the number of strobe heads, e.g. x-pak 604 means 60 watts, 4 heads.
This is what I learned in 4 years of building, selling, supporting strobe systems etc:
the un-modified 604 is too fast for aviation purposes. GS-Air obtained a variation directly from NOVA, called the 604HR. HR stands for Half-Rate.
The 604 HR in its single or double flash mode is (IMHO) perfect. Very powerful, reliable, can use 2, 3 or 4 heads (which are about 20-25$ each...) and has a low-power mode that brings the power down to 40 watts and is great for night flying (at night you need much LESS strobe brightness to be still very visible...)
The 90XX series is just too powerful. It will burn and destroy any strobe bulb out there.
The 402 series is really nice (that-s what GS Air initially was selling), but to mainly liability concerns we decided in 2005 to switch to a more powerful driver (still, the 402 flash saturated a 2,000 footcandles light meter, where the FARS require 400 footcandles for anticollision lights).
Well, this is it. I don't even want to start entering the LED discussion arena, but I can just say the candles simply can NOT be used to measure LED brightness. The FAA recently sent out a document which refers to a spreadsheet from the SAE (Soc Automotive Engineers) and specifies that if LEDs are used for Navigation lights "They must exhibit an equivalent level of safety when compared to incandescent lights"....you sleuths out there do some digging....
Just one last point. I have some leftover 604-HR, plus some strobe cable and a box of strobe bulbs. I can let the drivers go for $ 130 each, and the bulbs for $25 each. This is basically what I bought those for about 6 months ago. I will include the strobe cable (40 feet) for free. This is an end of basement-inventory sale only. Everything is new in their original boxes, but I think I only have 6 or 7 drivers left. If anyone is interested give me a call in the evenings at 507-202-7012.
Regards to all.
Giovanni

Me again.
Just re-read the first post in this series, and if you get that driver, 4 strobe heads, all cables for $ 160, well that's an unbeatable deal!!! The only issue is that you will have to see that the rate is not too fast.
Giovanni

Has anyone looked at the Whelen TIR 3 ultra led lights available at strobesnmore. Heres the link to the page http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/80/2288.htm?927 These lights are available in red ,green and clear. It indicates they can be used in steady burn configuration. I cannot find any beam spread info. I might just try these for position and recognition lights. There should be room to put the red/green light vertically in the corner of the leading edge cutout of the wingtip and place the white light horizontally next to it. It seems like three LEDS might give enough light for the nav lights when i think about how little light the certified stuff really puts out. Tony

Clarification needed

Leland said:

I installed the Nova X-PAC 904 strobe system for a very good price. Unfortunately the flash apparently has too much energy for my Whelan strobes and I burned out three strobes in 150 hours. I now operate the unit on "Low" flash and have had no further problems. A friend suggested that the unit is really designed for emergency vehicles that have more robust flash tubes.
Leland

Click to expand...

Leland,
Were you using the 904 with a 2 strobe system or a 3 strobe system? My understanding is that to meet the current lighting requirements, you need just under 30 watts per strobe [head]. Nova's nomenclature is as follows:
First two digits equals watts [ie 904 means 90 watts, 604 means 60 watts]
Third digit specifies the total number of strobe heads [bulbs], the power supply can drive. Watts is actually rated [as of several years ago] at driving half the "maximum" rated strobe heads.
Therefore, a two strobe system should be using a 60x power supply.
Charlie