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  #1  
Old 01-20-2023, 10:08 AM
jcl777 jcl777 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Kingwood, TX
Posts: 63
Default Second Pilot During Phase 1

Just curious...has anyone taken advantage of the provisions of AC 90-116 that permit a second pilot during Phase 1?

If so, did you use a "qualfied pilot" or "observer pilot".
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John Leon
Kingwood, TX
RV-12iS, N221TF, #121130
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  #2  
Old 01-20-2023, 10:16 AM
mfleming's Avatar
mfleming mfleming is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Joseph, Oregon
Posts: 1,019
Default

Iím very interested in using the second pilot program. Hopefully this will be a good discussion.

Admittedly I havenít read all the docs related to this program thoroughly, whatís the difference between qualified and observer pilot?
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Michael Fleming
Joseph, OR
sagriver at icloud dot com

RV-7 Slider #74572
Started 11/2016
Empennage completed 11/2016
Ailerons and flaps completed 3/2017.
Wings completed 12/2017
Started on QB fuselage 01/2018
Sliding canopy mostly completed 10/2020
Wiring and Avionics harness completed 9/2/2021
FWF Completed 11/1/2022
Final assembly Started 11/10/2022
Wings on 11/12/2022

N526RM

Donated for 2022 and so should you
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  #3  
Old 01-20-2023, 10:59 AM
jcl777 jcl777 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Kingwood, TX
Posts: 63
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfleming View Post
Iím very interested in using the second pilot program. Hopefully this will be a good discussion.

Admittedly I havenít read all the docs related to this program thoroughly, whatís the difference between qualified and observer pilot?
Your eyes will glaze over reading that AC. I even called EAA for some clarification - they were very helpful.

A qualified pilot can be on board during all Phase 1, including the initial flight. However, the requirements are fairly steep. See the Qualified Pilot Worksheet in Appendix 1 of the AC.

An observer pilot is simply one who is current (landings, flight review, etc). However, an observer pilot cannot be on board until after 8 hours are on the plane, and the "Aircraft Initial Tests" and "Builder/Pilot Maneuvers List" is complete. See the "Initial Tests Package Worksheet" in Appendix 1. This seems to mean that for a new plane that has only a 5 hour Phase 1, the use of the observer pilot is moot.

There are additional requirements for the aircraft, but if you're building E-LSA, those should not be a concern at all (i.e. building from a kit, an approved engine, etc).
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John Leon
Kingwood, TX
RV-12iS, N221TF, #121130
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  #4  
Old 01-20-2023, 11:09 AM
andoman andoman is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Payson, AZ
Posts: 122
Default

Excellent explanation, John.
My experience:
I’ve flown 3 phase I’s and have had a second crew member for several flights each time.
They were required for manual data logging, and managing the clock to accurately measure roll rate and other performance dynamics, especially at the edge of the envelope.
They were experienced rated pilots that didn’t join the party until 15-20 hours in; at a point when initial gremlins were confidently behind me.
My thought is that if you have a legitimate and thought out need for an additional “crew” you meet the spirit as well as the letter of the regulations.
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"The plane won't build itself..." RV-7A N7.62MM sold
-RV4 purchased. Extensive refurbishment complete. ďTakes off by itís self, flys hands off, lands by itís self...Ē
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Last edited by andoman : 01-20-2023 at 11:14 AM.
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  #5  
Old 01-20-2023, 11:11 AM
jcl777 jcl777 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Kingwood, TX
Posts: 63
Default Follow Up Question

Before you can consider either a qualified pilot or observer pilot, the AC requires 7 documented powerplant tests, if applicable:
  1. Mixture and idle check - mix is N/A on a Rotax, and idle check is understood
  2. Magneto check - OK
  3. Cold cylinder check - is this required for a Rotax or is it N/A?
  4. Carb heat check - N/A for Rotax
  5. Fuel flow check - completed during PAP, understood
  6. Unusable fuel check - ??
  7. Compression check - required for the Rotax??
Sorry for what might be dumb or obvious questions.
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John Leon
Kingwood, TX
RV-12iS, N221TF, #121130

Last edited by jcl777 : 01-20-2023 at 11:26 AM. Reason: add clarification
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  #6  
Old 01-20-2023, 11:15 AM
jcl777 jcl777 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Kingwood, TX
Posts: 63
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andoman View Post
I believe ďMinimum crew requiredĒ is the verbiage.
The AC does state that minimum crew for "typical E-AB aircraft and all E-LSA is one". The allowance for a second pilot is basically for safety.
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Kingwood, TX
RV-12iS, N221TF, #121130
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  #7  
Old 01-20-2023, 11:33 AM
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Draker Draker is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Cameron Park, CA
Posts: 790
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl777 View Post
Your eyes will glaze over reading that AC. I even called EAA for some clarification - they were very helpful.

A qualified pilot can be on board during all Phase 1, including the initial flight. However, the requirements are fairly steep. See the Qualified Pilot Worksheet in Appendix 1 of the AC.
Yea, jump straight to the appendix, that's where the meat is. I actually converted the Qualified Pilot criteria in the AC into a Google Sheet for my QP to fill in online, to make it easier for him. I'm willing to share a link if you're interested PM me.

First, before flying with QP you have:
  • Ground checks (the list jcl777 posted)

For a QP, you have:
  • Basic Requirements (yes/no questions related to flight review, recency and so on)
  • Recency of Experience (scoring sheet, you need to add up to greater than some threshold)
  • Experience Qualification (another scoring sheet)

For a OP, you need:
  • Aircraft Initial Tests (AIT) (including minimum of 8 hours flying time)
  • BP Maneuvers List (BPML) (things like steep turns, stalls, slow flight, and so on)
  • OP Basic Requirements (yes/no questions just like for QP)

The way I'm approaching AC 90-116 during Phase 1 is: I'm going to ask my QP to assist me for any of the flight tests I believe are risky, where I'd like to reduce my workload. I spelled out which tests these would be in my written test plan: "Initial test flight, Stalls, Accelerated Stalls, G Limit Testing". I'll call him up whenever I plan to do the initial test of any of those. Then, later, after all the AIT and BPML are done, I'll be free to take an OP up with me if I feel it would enhance safety.
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Ryan Drake
Cameron Airpark, CA
https://stiletto.smugmug.com/RV7
Donated 12/16/2022
RV-7A (N12VD): Flying RV in Phase 1
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  #8  
Old 01-20-2023, 01:04 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 3,279
Default Program

This is a great program! I used it extensively.
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Bob
EAA Tech Counselor
Aerospace Engineer '88

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Garmin G3X-T, Barrett EFII S32, CAI, MTV-9B

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  #9  
Old 01-20-2023, 01:09 PM
planenutz planenutz is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arrowtown, New Zealand
Posts: 111
Default

Our regulator seems to be quite understanding in this area especially for RV's. Upon granting the green light it was pointed out to me that the conditions of the Airworthiness Certificate allowed two pilots on board. Here we nominate our test pilots and need to have test pilot approvals granted by CAA Licensing.

It seemed common sense the first flight should be completed with a single pilot and that once we had a few flights under our belts, then we might look at flying two up. As it happened we used the same pilot for the first three flights (for continuity of the program we were following) and then we tag-teamed the remainder of the test flying except towards the end where it was handy to have self loading cargo for the MAUW tests. For those flights we had the two nominated test pilots on board. So while our rules are slightly different the outcome of our testing was very much in line with the rules you have to comply with anyway... two nominated test pilots with qualifying flights completed before two people flew together, and two people only for the benefits they brought to the specific tests being flown. I must add that with a GRT EFIS system on board a lot of the data collection was made by recording the flight to a USB stick and analysing this alongside the observations, reducing the pilot workload in most phases of flight. This was especially useful for climb tests and glide tests as well as engine parameters and break-in... so much easier than a stopwatch and writing numbers on paper.

To answer the OP - Yes, a qualified (and nominated) test pilot.
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Mike

Licensed Aircraft Mechanical Engineer
PPL-A
RV-6, ZK-XTC - Superior IO-360, Sensenich FP, GRT EFIS, Surefly SIM
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Trustee and Technical Councillor for the MBSAT RV-12 builds in Whitianga
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  #10  
Old 01-20-2023, 02:36 PM
blaplante blaplante is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 553
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl777 View Post
Before you can consider either a qualified pilot or observer pilot, the AC requires 7 documented powerplant tests, if applicable:
  1. Mixture and idle check - mix is N/A on a Rotax, and idle check is understood
  2. Magneto check - OK
  3. Cold cylinder check - is this required for a Rotax or is it N/A?
  4. Carb heat check - N/A for Rotax
  5. Fuel flow check - completed during PAP, understood
  6. Unusable fuel check - ??
  7. Compression check - required for the Rotax??
Sorry for what might be dumb or obvious questions.
cold cylinder check... most important on larger number of cylinders where you could have a dead cylinder and not really hear it (esp. when new to the plane). EASY to do. So do it.

Compresison check... again looking for a cylinder that isn't pulling its weight. Do it.

Unusable fuel check... are you asking how to do that?
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