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10-19-2022, 09:30 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 405
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Assume the engine stopped because you were very low on fuel and the pickup tube became uncovered for a brief period..
Based on what you say here.. it sounds like the procedure is still correct, as long as its followed.. the "EMS Backup Battery switch - ON" would provide power once again to the fuel pumps. If the prop is still windmilling, the engine should start up immediately at this point. correct?
The only risk seemd to be when the pilot doesn't follow the procedure. He may not try the ignition key because the prop is still rotating... and he may not think to use that EMS Backup Battery Switch .. because.. well, in normal operations, it never gets touched. He might notice 0 psi fuel pressure and try flipping the fuel pump switches, but that won't help. Eventually he'll pitch for best glide, the prop would stop..and maybe then he'd give the ignition switch a try.. and he'd be back in business.
The old behavior, where the pumps continue to run after a stoppage, just seems safer.. except during a crash sequence, as you mentioned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Kirk
3.5.3.1 ENGINE AIR RESTART ROTAX 912 iS
Maintain Airspeed 60 KIAS minimum (see note below)
Smart Glide Hold Direct-To Button on G3X (Garmin Only)
Lane A & B Switches BOTH ON
EMS Backup Battery Switch ON
Fuel Pump Switches BOTH ON
Fuel Shut-Off Valve CHECK ON DOWN
Throttle SET TO 55% - 65% OPEN
Spar Pin Override Switch HOLD DOWN
Ignition Key ENGAGE
If restart not possible, change throttle settings in attempt to
restart
Follow 3.6.2 Forced Landing procedures if unable to restart
... the EMS Backup Battery Switch (BBS) connects the Main (Aircraft) Bus directly to the 912iS EMS Bus A. The BBS serves the exact same purpose as the SBB circuit in the HIC Module does - to supply battery bus power directly to the EMS system - only more directly.
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__________________
Rob Carsey, Winfield Park, NJ
RV-12iS (N713) / Completed 12/2020 / 350hrs and counting
ASEL, Glider, AGI/IGI, LSRM-I, FCC GROL
APRS Track or ADSBExchange Track
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10-19-2022, 10:49 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 10,077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcarsey
Assume the engine stopped because you were very low on fuel and the pickup tube became uncovered for a brief period..
Based on what you say here.. it sounds like the procedure is still correct, as long as its followed.. the "EMS Backup Battery switch - ON" would provide power once again to the fuel pumps. If the prop is still windmilling, the engine should start up immediately at this point. correct?
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If a 912 Rotax stops running in flight, it STOPS.
It dos not windmill (well if you were diving at the ground when it stopped it might but not in normal flight attitudes).
That is why the procedure includes “engage key”.
__________________
Opinions, information, and comments, are my own unless stated otherwise.
You are personally responsible for determining the suitability of any tips,
ideas, etc. obtained from any post I have made in this forum.
Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
Formerly of Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop
FAA/DAR, EAA Technical Councelor
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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10-19-2022, 11:11 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,348
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I can attest to what Scott says. Fortunately the corrective action he mentioned worked. The problem was maintenance related. One carburetor did not seat properly in the socket and was allowing air to be sucked into the intake manifold. I was doing stalls with a student, and when he pulled back the throttle the engine quit. I thought maybe the idle was set too low as a first thought when it restarted. I have learned it is much better to figure out issues on the ground than go with assumptions in the air.
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10-19-2022, 11:33 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 4,762
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They took the phone and complicated it.... now they are taking the single engine plane and doing the same thing to it. They did it to your new truck also. Don't believe me, just look under the hood of a 1972 F-150...
My 6A with one mag only needs oil and fuel to fly, and can do so on about the same amount of fuel that a 12 uses at the same speed.
What's my point, *ell, I don't know. You should know me by now.. 
__________________
VAF #897 Warren Moretti
2022 =VAF= Dues PAID
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11-16-2022, 04:03 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Basalt, CO/Lexington, KY
Posts: 193
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Looking at the SB instructions it appears that there is no way to perform this SB without removing the canopy and the top cowl. The paint shop I used did not remove the these items for the paint job and it will break the paint to remove the top cowl.
Does anyone have any tips or recommendations for minimizing the amount of paint damage and broken paint areas when I go to remove the top cowl?
__________________
Jayson
RV-12iS
E-LSA
Donated
Never feel sorry for a man who owns a plane. -Charles Morse (Anthony Hopkins) Movie - "The Edge" https://youtu.be/dJD0lB4zRes
"...except during the month of Annual Condition Inspection." -Me (in the hangar)
"My first wife didn't like airplanes." - Gordon Baxter
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11-16-2022, 06:21 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Aurora, OR
Posts: 1,293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
Looking at the SB instructions it appears that there is no way to perform this SB without removing the canopy and the top cowl. The paint shop I used did not remove the these items for the paint job and it will break the paint to remove the top cowl.
Does anyone have any tips or recommendations for minimizing the amount of paint damage and broken paint areas when I go to remove the top cowl?
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Did they paint the airplane with the top cowl installed? It has to come off for inspections, so maybe I am misunderstanding something here? Or are you referring to the top-forward metal skin that covers the avionics bay area?
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11-16-2022, 06:29 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Basalt, CO/Lexington, KY
Posts: 193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greghughespdx
Or are you referring to the top-forward metal skin that covers the avionics bay area?
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Yes. I assumed in this instance, since the images in Figure 1 and Figure 2 show this piece removed, that this was being referred to as such. But re-reading it I see this is called the forward upper fuselage skin. It is painted, screw heads and all, and will crack the paint to remove.
Is there a method for limiting the amount of damage when I perform this SB?
__________________
Jayson
RV-12iS
E-LSA
Donated
Never feel sorry for a man who owns a plane. -Charles Morse (Anthony Hopkins) Movie - "The Edge" https://youtu.be/dJD0lB4zRes
"...except during the month of Annual Condition Inspection." -Me (in the hangar)
"My first wife didn't like airplanes." - Gordon Baxter
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11-16-2022, 06:32 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Aurora, OR
Posts: 1,293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
Yes. I assumed in this instance, since the images in Figure 1 and Figure 2 show this piece removed, that this was being referred to as such. But re-reading it I see this is called the forward upper fuselage skin. It is painted, screw heads and all, and will crack the paint to remove.
Is there a method for limiting the amount of damage when I perform this SB?
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Gotcha - just making sure. A paint cutter kit (sometimes called screwhead paint cutters) can help to make sure paint damage is minimized when removing screws that were painted that way. Similarly, a razor knife can help break the paint lines along skin seams. Just work very carefully.
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11-17-2022, 02:11 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mequon, WI
Posts: 80
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FWIW, I was able to complete this service bulletin fairly easily without taking off the avionics bay cover. Removing the right side G3X display allowed me all the access needed.
__________________
Barry Bernstein
N12BB RV12 Skyview flying since Oct 2016 (Sold)
N122B RV12iS Garmin flying since Oct 2020
https://eaabuilderslog.org?s=N122B
2023 dues paid. Best bargain in aviation!
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11-17-2022, 02:53 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 10,077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernsbm
FWIW, I was able to complete this service bulletin fairly easily without taking off the avionics bay cover. Removing the right side G3X display allowed me all the access needed.
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If your airplane doesn't have a right side EFIS screen, removing the right side panel section should provide enough access to complete the work for the S.B depending on what tools you have access to.
__________________
Opinions, information, and comments, are my own unless stated otherwise.
You are personally responsible for determining the suitability of any tips,
ideas, etc. obtained from any post I have made in this forum.
Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
Formerly of Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop
FAA/DAR, EAA Technical Councelor
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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