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Old 06-18-2010, 08:19 PM
MJarreau MJarreau is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: LA (Lower Alabama)
Posts: 430
Default Interesting Reading

This is a very interesting read. Thanks Tkatc!

Tailcone 90%, Wings 25%
Fuse Onsite, Finish Ordered, FWF Onsite, Finish Ordered, Prop Onsite, Engine Ordered
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:48 PM
Paul Thomas Paul Thomas is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Posts: 516

Leaving KFLL the other day my friend didn't want FF. We took off and tower vectored us around as we left. Tower gave us a vector that nicked KHWO airspace. I didn't think it was a problem since we were talking with ATC which is the sole requirement to be in class D airspace. He disagree and checked with the local flight school that backs up his views.



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Old 06-18-2010, 10:18 PM
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tkatc tkatc is offline
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,747

If ATC gives you a vector that takes you into adjacent airspace then the controller vectoring the aircraft is responsible for "pointing out" the aircraft to the adjacent facility. The pilot is not responsible.

However, there seems to be more to this story and I would have to have more details. What type of airspace is HWO?
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Old 06-19-2010, 01:33 AM
nucleus nucleus is offline
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bozeman, Montana
Posts: 857
Question November Required?

A local controller chewed me out on the radio for not saying November at the front of my tail number. When I took the ASF communication course not one example using the November...

Who is right?

Dr. Hans Conser
Bozeman Chiropractor
RV-6A 195 Hours, up for sale soon?
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Old 06-19-2010, 02:16 AM
corbinace corbinace is offline
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Wenatchee, WA
Posts: 60

Ok, you said that ALL questions would be tolerated so here is one that is "out there".

I only fly VFR. When I ask for flight following is there a way to ask that gets into whatever system shows my flight on

Some of the flights show and others do not.

My wife likes to watch my progress and you know the old saying about a happy spouse and happy house.

And yes, I do know that I need a tracker
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Old 06-19-2010, 06:42 AM
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pierre smith pierre smith is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,944
Default Yep, Mel...

Originally Posted by Mel View Post
What's this V O R radio you guys keep talking about? Is that some kind of antique radio?
...Vee Only Remember dat radio from a long, long time ago

Seriously, I taught Avionics classes at Ft. Gordon, Ga. in the 60's, including the old Tacan GPS????

Rv10 Sold
46 years ag pilot/CFI
Air Tractor 502/PT-6
Building RV-12, Wings, fuse, emp complete. FWF in progress.
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Old 06-19-2010, 08:44 AM
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tkatc tkatc is offline
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,747

Nucleus, the November or Type before your numbers/letters are required in my mind. The intent is to keep confusion out of your transmission so you are not mistaken for another aircraft. That being said, I doubt you were confusing anyone by omitting the "November". Why a controller would chew you out for it is beyond me. I am guilty of omitting the "November" myself, but again, it is a requirement as I understand it.

Corbinace, in order for flightaware to track your progress you must be entered into the "machine". Some controllers do this while others do not. In order for me to explain this you need some background info. There are 20 Air traffic Control CENTERS across the country. Each one has its own computer for flight plans and tracking info and such. Underneath each CENTER are multiple approach controls, towers, and every other kind of airspace which is governed by that center computer. Think of a center as a state and an approach control a city within that state. When a controller enters you into this computer ("The machine") you are then tracked by that computer and I believe flightaware is slaved off that computer.

The reasons some controllers enter you into the machine and others do not will vary depending upon many variables. Some controllers have better equipment that makes it very easy to enter you, others have equipment that makes that very cumbersome. If you are going a great distance some controllers will enter you because it makes hand offs to the next facility easier and you will be handed off multiple times. If you are going a short distance they might not think the work is work the effort because you would only be handed off once or twice. You could ask to be put in the machine....but most controllers would prefer you get that sort of thing while on the ground with your local clearance delivery. (the same clearance delivery you would call for an IFR clearance)

Last edited by tkatc : 06-19-2010 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 06-19-2010, 10:23 AM
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MrNomad MrNomad is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 850
Thumbs up Thanks TKATC!!


As you can see, your post was a really good idea.

The first two times I flew from Tucson into the LA basin I did it with an instructor. That was a good idea too. Folks spoke so quickly it was amazing.

Barry - Tucson
RV9A Sold
2022 dues paid. Thank u DR!
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:22 PM
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bkilby bkilby is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 340
Default The use of "november"

The sporty's VFR communications training specifically says you can drop the "N" because every aircraft in the US is prefixed with N in the registration. In the AIM, it doesn't say to use "November" in the communications with ATC.. I don't use it and wasn't taught to use it. Here is an example from the AIM:

1. Request for taxi instructions prior to departure. State your aircraft identification, location, type of operation planned (VFR or IFR), and the point of first intended landing.

Aircraft: ?Washington ground, Beechcraft One Three One Five Niner at hangar eight, ready to taxi, I-F-R to Chicago.?

Tower: ?Beechcraft one three one five niner, Washington ground, runway two seven, taxi via taxiways Charlie and Delta, hold short of runway three three left.?
Brian Kilby
flying RV-6A, previously flying RV-9A
based at KCTJ, Carrollton, GA
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:40 PM
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tkatc tkatc is offline
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,747
Default your example you prove my belief. You can use November OR the aircraft BEECH.
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