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Request Input on Sale to International Buyer

TomVal

Well Known Member
I have a buyer from France that is interested in my RV-12. He is part of a very accomplished aviation family to include his brother being a retired French astronaut whom was also a Brigadier General in the French Air Force. A google search on the buyer and his brother confirms the essence of our dialogue.

However, I've been politely putting him off because of the mechanics of an international sale. From the FAA standpoint, what hoops do I have to jump through?

A bit of a coincidence, back when I sold my RV-8, the first interested party that called was an international buyer. I also dragged my feet on his full price offer and fortunately several days later a U.S. buyer surfaced.
 
No hoops at all with the FAA. When you send your registration back in after the sale, check the box that says cancel registration because of a sale overseas. The only other information they want is what country it's going to.

Couldn't be easier!

Ed
 
No hoops at all with the FAA. When you send your registration back in after the sale, check the box that says cancel registration because of a sale overseas. The only other information they want is what country it's going to.

Couldn't be easier!

Ed

Thanks Ed! Now to figure out the rest of the dance.
 
If it were me I would use an insured escrow company just for a little extra insurance on the financial side.
 
If it were me I would use an insured escrow company just for a little extra insurance on the financial side.

Good point Chris. I just got off the phone with a shipping company in Lakeland, FL and their services were fairly turnkey, however, I'm in no hurry to sell and still tentative about selling internationally.
 
Nothing to it

Just wait for the cash to come into your account, box up the RV, and you're done! Nothing to it. "International" always sounds exotic and complex, but it's really not. If more US companies understood this it would probably add 10-20% to the US GDP. Just ask the Chinese - they make it as easy for their companies to ship international as domestic!
 
Just wait for the cash to come into your account, box up the RV, and you're done! Nothing to it. "International" always sounds exotic and complex, but it's really not. If more US companies understood this it would probably add 10-20% to the US GDP. Just ask the Chinese - they make it as easy for their companies to ship international as domestic!

Uh, no. STRONGLY disagree. There's customs, agents, brokers, insurance, getting a container, all kinds of things to be concerned about. The shipper in Lakeland told me that he'd once had a container full of airplanes fall on its side without damage to the contents -- I can't do that. Also, highway vibration can loosen tiedowns in the box.

This is the case where hiring somebody who knows what they're doing and does it all the time makes a whole lot of sense to me.
 
If it were me, I?d treat it just like a US sale. Let the buyer take care of whatever needs to be taken care of for shipping, crating, insurance, registration, etc. There is no amount of money that could persuade me to assume responsibility for any of these things.

After I received good funds via a wire transfer, I would consider delivering it to the buyer?s representative in the United States.

I sold my Midget Mustang to a buyer from Switzerland. He chose to form a Delaware corporation and retain the N number. I agreed to deliver the plane to an F1 racing training center in Big Spring, TX well after I had received payment in full.

Not that it?s relevant to this discussion, but the poor guy tried a low-level roll and killed himself in the Midget Mustang on August 23rd. Kinda a sad deal.
 
If it were me, I?d treat it just like a US sale. Let the buyer take care of whatever needs to be taken care of for shipping, crating, insurance, registration, etc. There is no amount of money that could persuade me to assume responsibility for any of these things.

After I received good funds via a wire transfer, I would consider delivering it to the buyer?s representative in the United States.

I sold my Midget Mustang to a buyer from Switzerland. He chose to form a Delaware corporation and retain the N number. I agreed to deliver the plane to an F1 racing training center in Big Spring, TX well after I had received payment in full.

Not that it?s relevant to this discussion, but the poor guy tried a low-level roll and killed himself in the Midget Mustang on August 23rd. Kinda a sad deal.

Rod,

Yes, if I follow through with the sale, the buyer would be doing the above. I'm just trying to educate myself on the process.
 
If it were me, I’d treat it just like a US sale. Let the buyer take care of whatever needs to be taken care of for shipping, crating, insurance, registration, etc. There is no amount of money that could persuade me to assume responsibility for any of these things.

After I received good funds via a wire transfer, I would consider delivering it to the buyer’s representative in the United States.

I sold my Midget Mustang to a buyer from Switzerland. He chose to form a Delaware corporation and retain the N number. I agreed to deliver the plane to an F1 racing training center in Big Spring, TX well after I had received payment in full.

Not that it’s relevant to this discussion, but the poor guy tried a low-level roll and killed himself in the Midget Mustang on August 23rd. Kinda a sad deal.

I agree. I would let the foreign buyer assume all costs for disassembly, preservation, packing, documentation, export crating, handling, insurance and shipping. Point of delivery being Sellers Hangar, USA.
 
Thanks Everyone for Your Input

Between your input and a few phone calls I now have a better understanding of the international sales process.

Regards,
 
...I'm in no hurry to sell and still tentative about selling internationally.
I'm putting my -9A on the market soon and that's one of the things I've been thinking about. From what I've read, I think simply putting it in a 20" box with one of the reputable shippers in OZ would be the go.

I don't think I'd hesitate to sell it to a US or Canadian buyer if I got a suitable offer as it seems to be relatively pain-free to ship it there.
 
I can offer a little perspective from a "Brit" point of view.

From where we sit the usual expectation on buying an aircraft from the US is

1) Its usually purchased "ex works" in USD $ (ie getting it back here is our problem, cost & risk)
2) The US market is much bigger and there is better availability & choice ..... and what's available often looks cheaper to us - mainly because anything that is already (including kits or parts) here has attracted shipping costs, taxes and duties and survived the potential pitfalls of the process.
3) IMPORTANT. US built "Experimentals" have a completely different regulatory framework to ours. What is perfectly ok in the US is no guarentee that it will be accepted here. This is probably the single biggest concern for any European buying a US aircraft.
4) With big ticket items such as these the currency exchange rates can make a big difference. In times of volatility the price from the buyers point of view can change by £1000's overnight

In general Europeans are attracted to US aircraft due to availability and price. Due to the regulatory issues the safest purchases are well established types (think "Vans" !) built EXACTLY to plans. Well photographed & documented aircraft adverts will increase our interest. Whatever we buy will go through a VERY thorough inspection & approval process before it is allowed to fly here (BIG risk if something fails on european rules.)

What often drives us being seen as unreliable buyers in the US is 1) People expressing interest without doing their homework - particularly on type approval and deviation from plans. 2) Having to contend with currency variations 3) Adverts that don't show enough detail

A very general thought is that the type of european buyer who will look at a US aircraft is probably more likely to be willing to take a little extra risk by adopting this route. Some do this because they are fairly expert on what to look for, the process and its associated risks, others are simply naive or just bargain hunters.

Good luck with your sale ...... personally, I'm always happy to see a few more aircraft arriving here !
 
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I can offer a little perspective from a "Brit" point of view.

From where we sit the usual expectation on buying an aircraft from the US is

1) Its usually purchased "ex works" in USD $ (ie getting it back here is our problem, cost & risk)
2) The US market is much bigger and there is better availability & choice ..... and what's available often looks cheaper to us - mainly because anything that is already (including kits or parts) here has attracted shipping costs, taxes and duties and survived the potential pitfalls of the process.
3) IMPORTANT. US built "Experimentals" have a completely different regulatory framework to ours. What is perfectly ok in the US is no guarentee that it will be accepted here. This is probably the single biggest concern for any European buying a US aircraft.
4) With big ticket items such as these the currency exchange rates can make a big difference. In times of volatility the price from the buyers point of view can change by £1000's overnight

In general Europeans are attracted to US aircraft due to availability and price. Due to the regulatory issues the safest purchases are well established types (think "Vans" !) built EXACTLY to plans. Well photographed & documented aircraft adverts will increase our interest. Whatever we buy will go through a VERY thorough inspection & approval process before it is allowed to fly here (BIG risk if something fails on european rules.)

What often drives us being seen as unreliable buyers in the US is 1) People expressing interest without doing their homework - particularly on type approval and deviation from plans. 2) Having to contend with currency variations 3) Adverts that don't show enough detail

A very general thought is that the type of european buyer who will look at a US aircraft is probably more likely to be willing to take a little extra risk by adopting this route. Some do this because they are fairly expert on what to look for, the process and its associated risks, others are simply naive or just bargain hunters.

Good luck with your sale ...... personally, I'm always happy to see a few more aircraft arriving here !

Another great post. Just as I was getting a handle on the international sales dance, then you added an additional twist.

My aircraft is a highly modified EAB, not plans built. This raises additional concerns about this aircraft meeting European standards. This topic did not come up with the buyer. He is presently out of town. We'll have to discuss this upon his return. I am not the type of seller that would sell and just wish the buyer good luck!
 
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Another great post. Just as I was getting a handle on the international sales dance, then you added an additional twist.

My aircraft is a highly modified EAB, not plans built. This raises additional concerns about this aircraft meeting European standards. This topic did not come up with the buyer. He is presently out of town. We'll have to discuss this upon his return. I am not the type of seller that would sell and just wish the buyer good luck!

Thanks.

I thought I'd better clarify a couple of points before someone takes me to task

- I'm laughing at myself as a Brit speaking out as a "European" ..... maybe for another 2 weeks, but who knows !

- My points on Plans built & approved types are from a UK perspective, there are many differences in different European countries. We do have a UK "modification" approval process - but it takes time and effort to get through.
 
Thanks.

I thought I'd better clarify a couple of points before someone takes me to task

- I'm laughing at myself as a Brit speaking out as a "European" ..... maybe for another 2 weeks, but who knows !

- My points on Plans built & approved types are from a UK perspective, there are many differences in different European countries. We do have a UK "modification" approval process - but it takes time and effort to get through.

I do recall some posts on another website about the difficulty in the UK when making modifications to an approved design, requiring engineering studies, etc. If France is the same way, I would assume the time and cost to get an EAB approval is not worth the risk to the buyer.

You can relax as an European...sounds like you may have a bit of a wait...Brexit is EAB...it will take some time before the UK accepts the modifications.:D
 
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