HELP! Hong Kong's First Homebuilt needs your help!

Hi all!

As some of you know, I am building Hong Kong's first homebuilt (a RV8) that I would like to certify and register the aircraft under Hong Kong registration.

Being the first means a new chapter for the Civil Aviation Department (CAD) and lots of paperwork for me. I will be meeting with the head of the CAD in the near future to make a presentation in regards to homebuilt aircraft and ultimately, to allow the first RV to get airborne in HK.

I need to make presentation on the "big picture" of the "Experimental" Category, Homebuilt aircraft, Van RV series and specifically, the RV8.

Would be grateful if the community can help out with the following data, with reference, on the following questions:

1) The safety record of homebuilt aircraft, RV aircraft, and RV8. How is it compare to production aircraft of the same weight category.

2) Of those safety record, the breakdown of incident/accident relates to the types of error, such as construction error, pilot, mechanical, weather, etc.

3) How many homebuilt aircraft, RVs, RV8 flying around the world, and their number breakdown for each country.

Can any UK builders share your process of getting your RV certify in the UK? Hong Kong follows the UK regulation closely, I won't be surprise if I end up have to follow similar process or more.

Many thanks!
Hank

Hank,
If you are a subscriber to KitPlanes magazine, http://www.kitplanes.com/ , Ron Wanttaja has been writing a series of articles on homebuilt safety. In the July issue he specifically addressed RVs and it includes some, if not all of the data you are looking for. In any event he's probably the most knowledgable guy around on homebuilt safey. As I'm sure the articles are copy righted I can't post them, but Marc Cook, senior editor of KitPlanes is active here on VAF (KPmarc is VAF member ID). He might be willing to send you the articles and/or put you in touch with Ron.

Good luck!!!

Some UK Info

Hi Hank,

I wish you all the very best with your endeavour. I cannot help with accident statistics but suggest you scan the Safety Forum on VAF. I think you may atleast find info or links to info for US-based RV accident statistics.

There are some unofficial figures for RV's being built and flying in the UK here:
http://www.rvuk.co.uk/ (scroll to bottom of home page). The site also contains a list of all the RV's in the UK (http://www.iansrv6.plushost.co.uk/rvuk/listrvs.php).

As for UK 'Permit to Fly' regulations, you need to read up on the Light Aircraft Association (LAA) that oversees homebuilt aircraft on behalf of the UK CAA (http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/index.html).

I suggest you look at the LAA Engineering information and especially at
Technical Leaflets (http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/technical_leaflets.html)
and Publications (http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/publications.html)

That should give you plenty of reading material. I hope that is of some use. You might yet end up in charge of HK LAA

p.s. Should have mentioned that not all 'Permit to Fly' aircraft in the UK are overseen by the LAA.
The LAA is authorised by the CAA to make recommendations for the issue and renewal of Permits to Fly to aeroplanes which are:
• Maximum take-off weight not to exceed 910Kg (2006lbs) but may be up to 1136Kg (2500lbs) with the agreement of the Civil Aviation Authority.
• The installed power not to exceed 134KW (180BHP) but may be 194KW (260BHP) with the agreement of the Civil Aviation Authority.
• Power-off stall speed in landing configuration not over 60 mph but may be up to 70 mph with the agreement of the Civil Aviation Authority
• Maximum design speed not exceeding 250mph.
• Amateur built (including from kits providing the assembly work content is at least 51% hours).

Aircraft that do not meet the above criteria are handled directly by the UK CAA.

Auburntsts said:

Hank,
If you are a subscriber to KitPlanes magazine, http://www.kitplanes.com/ . . . but Marc Cook, senior editor of KitPlanes is an RV owner . . .

Click to expand...

Marc is this true? I thought you were flying the GlasStar with the O-390? Have you turned from the Dark Side after all these years?

My mistake on saying Marc has an RV

Ooops my bad on stating Marc had an RV. For some reason I thought Marc had an RV (a 3 or a 4). My apologies for the confusion.

Cognitive Disfunction

I figured it out--finally. Dave Hirschman over at AOPA has an RV-3. He has installed a G3X and has written about it in AOPA Pilot and that's the link. With the recent G3X articles over on KitPlanes and the recent G3X thread activity here on VAF where Marc has posted, I managed to get Marc and Dave confused. Sorry about that.....

Hank...

I was going to suggest that you get UK advice - as you say, the CAD has much in common.

Firstly, I would suggest do not "close up" any Tailplane components yet... the UK process is based on "inspections" by an LAA inspector, and if an equivalent is deemed necessary (and it is good practice) someone needs to sign off these components, which in turn requires inspection prior closing up.

You could do worse than ask the LAA here for an RV-8 build book / schedule for signatures. You might even find an LAA inspector frequents HK?

Secondly, be very wary of "adapting" the design as laid down by Vans. Any deviation from the plans is considered by the LAA a "modification", which is a long winded process and rarely worthwhile, and likely more so if the CAD need convincing as well. We've built a nice RV-8 Website that had no mods required. Ditto pick a fairly standard engine and prop (LAA website gives accepted combinations).

Safety record - again, the AAIB (and NTSB) websites will tell all. Use the CAA G-INFO records for numbers of UK RVs and hours flown - specifically RV-8s. eMail me offline if you want info on specific types/accidents - but apart from the 'A' nosewheel issues, I cannot think of any really to do with RV build/design aspects. As ever, stick-seat interface is usually the dominant factor, as with most GA accidents

HTH, and I echo what Steve says...

Good luck!
Andy

Thanks!

Thanks! That's lots of good info, I will add more questions as I go, this will get me started.

THanks!
Hank

Hi Hank,

My son in law and I are building an 8 in the UK and although he is here just now, he lives in HK. He knows a bit about HK airworthiness legislation and I am vice-chair of the UK LAA which administers our inspection and approval system for amateur built aircraft.

If we can help send me an email off line to john.brady AT laa.uk.com.

John

Hi John,

Thanks VERY much for your offer, will chat on e-mail, thanks!

Hank

Wow.....

Mach2 said:

Hi Hank,

.....and I am vice-chair of the UK LAA which administers our inspection and approval system for amateur built aircraft.

If we can help send me an email off line to john.brady AT laa.uk.com.

John

Click to expand...

....some heavy hitters on here!

Welcome, John....haven't seen you here before,

Best,

Hi Hank,

I am in and out of Hong Kong reasonably often. If I can help I will. I would say this..... If you are the first in HKG try and steer CAD towards the US system in the first instance.. yes I am a Brit, but as any Brit will tell you the US homebuilder enjoys far more latitude, than we do over in the UK and it should be remembered that the RV is an American design most prolific in the US.
I have looked at the safety data you require on the AOPA website with reference to homebuilt accident statistics and all the information you require is there. Of interest, if intervention by the regulator is required, it is the humans t more often than not need modification and adjustment, not the aircraft!
Feel free to pm and may be we can get together the next time I am in HKG

Steve

Information

I think your best source for your information would be the Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA) in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. Good Luck!

Dick DeCramer
Northfield, MN
RV6 N500DD Flying
RV8 Fuselage

This may be helpful:
http://www.eaa.org/news/2010/homebuilts_report_wanttaja.pdf

Thanks

Thanks Nouj, PM sent, look forward to buy you a drink!

I am a member of EAA, I did have a look at the data they have (as well as the NTSB), but all the data I found pertains to homebuilts in general. I think figures on stock RV8 will yield a different result.

Still collecting as much info and data before I submit my proposal, thanks everyone for their input and support!

More power to you Hank!

May I suggest as well as looking at the LAA as an example, you take a look at how the Australian experimental scene works. If you can aim for the level of freedom this offers, you'll be the envy of all the LAA members!

Good luck with your endeavours!

Andrew