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Blocked elevator

S

SuperCubDriver

Well Known Member
Seeing all these nice RV videos here I thought I also need a GoPro camera. Bought one and made a mount for the wings and tail.
So a few days ago I tried the camera and the mount on different locations and while doing this did some mild aerobatics also with negative G?s. I made three flights relocating the camera on intermediate landings. On the third flight the camera was mounted on the vertical stabilizer top. All went well but on final approach during flare the elevator would not move - blocked !! The plane hit the (grass) runway with the main gear, not really hard but bounced back in the air and came back again on the main gears after applying a bit of power. I thought it will tip over, I was quick enough to retract the flaps and I immediately could feel I am on the ground for a save rollout. Strangely the elevator was free again but didn?t feel as usual. When I got to the tail moving the elevator by hand I feared something came apart under the empennage fairing. Removed it and immediately found the cause: An aluminum flash light which found it?s way up into this location while doing the aerobatics.
I did change the autopilot servo about two months ago and I probably missed the flashlight when I closed everything up after work.

I wouldn?t rate me as an inexperienced pilot or mechanic after building this plane, but this event shows that you never stop learning.

So now after working on the plane I will take my time to collect all tools used and then go over the working area again.

 
I know several people who have left things inside the wrong part of the plane. It happens often. Especially when you have more than one set of hands working inside the plane. Glad you had no bent metal with the ordeal!
 
Yikes!!!

Herman,

Thanks for sharing that post!!! It now doubt will jog the memory of many
builders to double check the work area! A very sobering account...glad you
came out of it safely!!:)
 
Poor tool inventory/control has killed people in the past, this should be a serious lesson for everyone.

In the military, if so much as a screw driver comes up missing, every airplane is grounded until either the missing tool is found, or every plane is pulled apart and deemed free of said missing tool.

There are many ways to do this:
Keep a list of each tool in each drawer.
Draw an outline of each tool on a beg board
Number them
Foam cut outs

Whatever you need to do, but as evident here.... Something as innocuous as a flashlight that wasn't noticed missing, and wasn't found until it almost became an accident.

Thanks to the OP for sharing this.
 
Wow..

This could've ended in a fatality!

An A&P I know, uses a tray with all the necessary tools for the job at hand in it...and he has a list of all of them. Every one has to be accounted for and in the tray before he's done with that particular job.

Best,
 
Wow!!

Even though I'm careful, it just shows me that I need to KNOW I've accounted for all foreign objects. Thanks for posting. Lady Luck smiled on you!!
 
I have 3 maglites that I found in airplanes. One found wedged between rudder pedals has owners initials on it. The biggest one came out of a Delta wheel well along with several other tools. It has owners name and workplace scribed on it. Also found a wrench in a T206 turbo. Last guy did the oil change said it wasn't his.....until he was shown his initials on the wrench. I have a pair of sidecutters I sent flying. I got it back at next oil change and use it daily. Its been a good reminder for like 25 years.
 
When we took the RV-1 apart for it's restoration, I recall finding several items in the tail - can't find the pictures now, but enough stuff to have affected the weight and Balance! There was no aft bulkhead or cockpit close-outs on that simple machine, so anything lost out of a pocket was going to end up there.

Account for your tools - but be aware that other stuff needs to be looked for during inspections.
 
My late boss was a part owner in a clipped wing Cub and took it out for some aerobatics...snap rolls included.

The elevator became jammed, it wouldn't go any higher than level, so he made a long final approach and controlled pitch with throttle and trim and wheeled it on fast.

Examination revealed a stainless steel Zippo cigarette lighter jammed between the upper longerons near the fin post and that's what stopped the elevator control horn.

His partner had lost his Zippo in that airplane a year earlier! True story.

Best,
 
A few years ago I got to talk with the NTSB about an SLSA that had crashed killing the instructor and student. A flashlight had jammed the elevator pushrod causing the aircraft to be unrecoverable from a stall.
It belonged to the mechanic who had done the last annual condition inspection.

Of course the flashlight wasn't mine, but they wanted to talk to everyone involved with the aircraft. And my name was all over the certification paperwork, including the Airworthiness Certificate.
 
Thank you for sharing this valuable lesson. Very happy that this ended up with maybe a little bit "bent" pride but it's much better than an bent airplane. Glad you are okay.
 
Listen for loose items

Certainly not fool proof; but better than nothing. After completing work with inspection panels, floor panels and rear bulkheads open, I bang on the bottom of the structure with a fist listening for any loose items.
 
Good lesson learned, almost as bad as leaving a pair of forceps inside a patients abdomen after surgery.
 
I will probably not make cutouts for all tools, this won?t work for me but would be quite safe avoiding this in the future. But I will take extra time and care when working on the plane.
I have the video of the landing but there is not really much to see when the airplane bounced. The file is too large as it is. I only can cut it to show the landing at this time but I didn?t figure out how to convert it sizewise and how to post.
 
This thread sparked another thought. It is really good that guys have procedures for ensuring that they haven't left any tools behind - seriously, this is to be applauded - but they are still what we would call "zero fault tolerant" procedures if they depend on one person making a final check.

If you have a tool box with slots for every tool...what about when you loaned a couple of tools to your best friend, or your brother (someone you trust) - and now you have to remember which slots were empty before you started the job. Always banging on the structure is a good thing (I "always" tap on the bottom of the leading edge of a wing when I preflight to see if anything echoes back - not sure why I learned that...), but just as you are about to do that, someone walks up and asks a question, you get involved, and don't get back to it.

Most pilots "always" use a checklist...and then get distracted by a radio call, or the GPS acquired in the middle of it and demanded attention, or the passenger interrupts you as you turn the page. Sure, we should go back and start over, or something like that - but accidents occur even to those who believe that they religiously follow procedures. Dual pilot "challenge and response" is superior - but not foolproof.

Not to tell anyone to change what they do - anything that helps us catch errors in the direction of goodness - but when we fall into a habit of doing something, we eventually get sloppy. Been there, done that myself. It's the things we have done a million times that we eventually screw up. Another set of hands and eyes helps.
 
In the airline world we had inspector sign offs (2nd set of eyes) for "CLEARANCE TO CLOSE" in any area that would be a hazard if FOD was left behind.

To this day I never close up an enclosed area without my own personal "clearance to close". For me that means the job is 100% completed, everything is put away and cleaned up, I take a short break (I take lots of breaks these days)... and then go back with a flashlight/mirror and inspect the entire area immediately prior to closing it up.

I used to be an inspector, trust me when I say you wouldn't believe some of the stuff I've seen left behind by mechanics :eek:
 
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Great suggestion Walt. Many many years ago as a young man in school I learned that taking short breaks during study time would actually increase my ability to learn and retain the information that I was studying. I'm not sure if this is true for everyone but it certainly works for me to this day. I guess it's the same principle applied. Thanks for reminding me to apply it :D
 
Huh?

I have a similar blue aluminum flashlight I haven't seen in awhile, didn't think much of it; now I do.

Lost an AN3-10A in my tail last weekend installing the empennage for the last time. I searched for 30 minutes, it's the first part in two years I haven't been able to find after dropping.

Made a personal commitment in the first step of the build to never leave a single task incomplete, including torquing of nylocks, even if they are coming off the next day. I've finished every fastener as if I'll never come back again. Yes, I've spent a good deal of time redoing these, but even with that level of commitment, to my surprise if found some mistakes.
 
mikeflys8 said:
Certainly not fool proof; but better than nothing. After completing work with inspection panels, floor panels and rear bulkheads open, I bang on the bottom of the structure with a fist listening for any loose items.
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Same here! Works for finding those items you know get loose that you can't readily find. Helpful for a pre-close inspection too!
 
A few years back, the "Spirit of St. Louis" replica from the San Diego Aerospace Museum was being readied for a 75th Anniversary commemoration flight from Gillespie Field to Lindbergh Field San Diego. This replica had only flown once before 25 years prior. Lloyds of London provided coverage for the test and then commemoration flight.

During the inspection process to re-issue the A/W certificate, a bucking bar was discovered in the left wing.

Also, the aircraft had to be disassembled at the museum and transported to Gillespie for reassembly and flight test. With the aircraft signed off for flight, the pilot, Roger Baker, was conducting a flight control check in preparation for the test flight. A friend, Dick Doll, was watching the flight control check from outside the aircraft. With disbelief, Dick asked Roger to repeat the check...during reassembly, the ailerons were rigged backwards!

Minus one bucking bar and properly rigged ailerons...the commemoration flight was uneventful and successfully competed. Afterwards, the "Spirit" was returned to it's place of honor in the lobby of the aerospace museum...perhaps awaiting it's next chance to fly commemorating the 100th Anniversary in 2027.
 
Dbro172 said:
Lost an AN3-10A in my tail last weekend installing the empennage for the last time. I searched for 30 minutes, it's the first part in two years I haven't been able to find after dropping.
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One advantage of using steel hardware in an aluminum airframe is that often a magnet on a stick or wire will find that lost bolt or nut.
 
Last year I misplaced the maglight that I carry in my flight bag. The holster was in the outside pocket on the bag were it is supposed to be. A couple of weeks later I found my flashlight in the baggage compartment. Like the RV4 this is behind the aft passenger seat. Thus the light moved back in the cabin from the holster, in the bag, under my left knee, back to the passenger area, around a small space between the passenger seat and the #7 bulkhead to the baggage compartment.
There are no openings in the baggage area but it was certainly an eye opener for me.
 
very glad to hear you tell the story. FOD has a high potential for generating unfortunate circumstances. As I read you account, I immediately recall one of the early chapters in Patty Wagstaff's book where she describes her *first* FOD incident - "a full set of keys were wrapped around the elevator bellcrank". They were not her keys.

FOD can come from lots of sources and some of those sources are not the pilot or mechanic.
 
Mel said:
One advantage of using steel hardware in an aluminum airframe is that often a magnet on a stick or wire will find that lost bolt or nut.
Click to expand...
It occasionally comes up with *more* than you were looking for, too. :eek:
 
A few years back a P-40 took off from Brookhaven Airport on Long Island and the pilot reported the yoke was jammed. He maneuvered toward a field and performed a (costly) gear up landing. The inspection found an old dzus tool jammed in the linkage. Could have been floating around for a long time I would imagine.
 
I've wasted years of my life looking for stuff I had a second ago. In the past, when I'd misplace something, I'd just say "I'll find it later." Then I realized that it could be in a tail or have fallen somewhere where it could jam a control, so I've learned to drop what I'm doing (after already doing that, literally, I guess) and find the piece/part/tool.
 
Shadow your tools

Take the time to shadow your tool boxes.
Yes it takes time but it gives you an instant account of what is missing and its a start to preventing tool related incidents. It also provides better organization and makes work faster.

There are many ways to do it. All over the internet .... from using expandable foam to just cardboard. I used cheap camping mats from Wal-mart for some of mine. Fit the mat to your box, trace the tool out with a sharpie and cut with exacto knife or whatever. Done.

Its part of being professional in what you do. The airlines and the military all have ways of accounting for tools.

Dave A.
 
Years ago, while deployed on aircraft carrier USS Never home, I was up in the tower acting as our squadrons representative for a cycle. Every squadron has a rep in the tower during flight ops on the boat to act as a big book reader for emergencies, CRM source or liaison for whatever the Air Boss may need.

Anyway, one of the other reps and I were chatting, drinking coffee and killing time when a jet from this guys squadron calls up. Everyone had just fired up, and planes were taxiing around on the flight deck getting hooked up to catapults and getting ready for a big launch which was to start in about 15 minutes. The conversation went something like this...

303: "Tower rep, 303"
Rep: "Go ahead 303, whats up?"
303: "Do you know how many skittles come in a bag?"
(All of us reps look at each other funny)
Rep: "No, why?"
303: "Well, then this jet is gonna be down for FOD"

I could barely stand for the next 10 minutes my sides hurt so bad.

Another, not so bright individual was playing with his pistol in the cockpit when the base plate on his magazine spring out and 15 9mm rounds went flying out. That jet was down for a week as they looked for all the bullets.
 
tim.randles said:
Are there any surgeons on the forums that would like to share operating room procedures?
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Not a surgeon, but as an anesthesiologist I have seen the procedure thousands of times. Every single item is inventoried by two people before the case begins, and again at the end. Discrepancies mean re-opening the patient or searching with an X-ray. And still stuff gets left behind.
 
Quickbuild tip

Quickbuild guys,

I bought a quickbuild fuselage in the hopes of expediting my build (marginally successful), but in the process of inspecting it I removed the rivets for the baggage compartment and passenger compartment floors. I found a small collection of rusted clecos and rivets. I am glad I looked. If nothing else, hearing that stuff rolling around while moving the plane would have driven me nuts.
 
The 182 owned by the flying club I belonged to until recently had some repair work done by an avionics shop. It was flown home and parked in the hangar. A couple of weeks later someone started it up and heard a loud BANG!... shut down... a 7/8" combination wrench was apparently left laying on top of the engine. It had come out, hit one blade of our nearly BRAND NEW 3-blade McCauley, been thrown violently down, hit the ground and bounced back up to break one of the wheel pants.

Thankfully it happened on the ground. It's going to be an expensive repair for the avionics shop, where one of the mechanics had been wondering what the heck happened to his wrench.
 
Partially Built Projects too...

..When I bought my partially completed RV-3 project (which will be project #2 when my 10 is done), I set forth on the "not fun" task of quality control inspection of the project. It took a long time and some awkward viewing angles to inspect all the work, but I was rewarded for my efforts by finding a nice LED barlight lantern hanging from one of the rib lightening holes, inside a wing that was closed up.. :eek: Perhaps this was meant to make annuals easier..? :D Check your work, and especially the work of others. No one is perfect all the time!
 
I am a surgeon, and the rules are two people count all the instruments before the case starts, with a list of all the instruments. Also the incidentals, suture, needles, knive blades, in other words the expendables. At the completion of the main procedure, the instruments and all sharp objects are counted twice, once before closing the abdominal muscles (in my case as a general surgeon) and again at the closure of the skin. Things must come out even. Nothing is left behind. X-rays are taken if there is a discrepancy. Medicine learns a lot from aviation, crew management, planning, etc, but aviation especially building can learn a lot from medicine also.
Building the wings of my RV 12. More fun than a person should be allowed to have.
 
Elevator locked

This thread reminds me of a local crash over 30 years ago that killed Grady Nutt who was a regular on the Hee Haw TV show. He had spoken to a church group and was on a charter flight in a Beechcraft twin departing the Cullman Alabama airport going back to Louisville, Ky. Although the NTSB report lists the cause as "undetermined" the locals indicated the 16,000 hour charter pilot took off without removing the control yoke locking pin. Evidence pointed to the pilot trying to maintain pitch control with the elevator trim tab (Down trim would be UP and Up trim would be DOWN...and very slow).

Whether or not this was the cause, it appears to some that even a professional pilot with lots of hours can fail to make an adequate preflight inspection. If this were true, I never could figure out how someone could begin the takeoff roll without knowing the control yoke wouldn't move. I've often thought about this accident as I do my preflight inspection. I knew one of the local pilots who was drafted that night to help the NTSB with securing the accident site. I found it hard to believe that you could get very much pitch control authority from just the trim tab.
 
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Not just tools

I went out and had a blast last Sunday, +5, -1.5 on the fun (G) meter.

After my last Cuban the elevator felt a little strange. Decided to knock it off. As I flew home I needed way more trim than normal, including full right aileron trim. On landing I had the trim all the way back AND considerable stick force.

On exiting the aircraft I discovered that the rear seat bottom cushion had become dislodged during inverted flight and had fallen over the rear seat stick, effectively trapping the stick in the little crotch strap cut-out.

This despite new industrial strength velcro and being strapped down with the harness.

From now on no acro with the rear seat cushion in place.
 
Shuttle

Part of preparing the Space Shuttle stack for launch in the Vehicle Assembly Building involved rotating and raising the Orbiter and External Tank, separately, from the horizontal to vertical orientation. Occasionally the sounds of items relocating were heard.
 
flytoday said:
Part of preparing the Space Shuttle stack for launch in the Vehicle Assembly Building involved rotating and raising the Orbiter and External Tank, separately, from the horizontal to vertical orientation. Occasionally the sounds of items relocating were heard.
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Yup - and way back in the 90's, they heard an INCREDIBLY loud thunk and crash - only to find a work platform still inside the aft compartment. When they checked the records, more than TEN people has signed off that the platform had been removed. "Quality stamps", it seems, don't necessarily indicate quality.....
 
Factory planes also

Back in the 1970's. I worked for a Large flight school which had a policy to do a complete (annual like) inspection on any plane prior to adding it to the training fleet. This included Factory new planes. I found a bucking bar in the wing of a C-172, total time on the plane was the factory test flight and the ferry time to Florida.
 
Top notch

I had the privilege of flying with Herman last summer in Germany. I can tell you that he is a great pilot and his airplane is spectacular. Herman is being modest. The fact that he posted this incident reveals two things: he puts safety of the RV community above his ego, and if it can happen to him, it WILL happen to me if I don't take specific measures (ideas above) to prevent it.

Thanks Herman, and your US RV-10 pass is waiting.
 
Sig600 said:
Years ago, while deployed on aircraft carrier USS Never home, I was up in the tower acting as our squadrons representative for a cycle. Every squadron has a rep in the tower during flight ops on the boat to act as a big book reader for emergencies, CRM source or liaison for whatever the Air Boss may need.

Anyway, one of the other reps and I were chatting, drinking coffee and killing time when a jet from this guys squadron calls up. Everyone had just fired up, and planes were taxiing around on the flight deck getting hooked up to catapults and getting ready for a big launch which was to start in about 15 minutes. The conversation went something like this...

303: "Tower rep, 303"
Rep: "Go ahead 303, whats up?"
303: "Do you know how many skittles come in a bag?"
(All of us reps look at each other funny)
Rep: "No, why?"
303: "Well, then this jet is gonna be down for FOD"

I could barely stand for the next 10 minutes my sides hurt so bad.

Another, not so bright individual was playing with his pistol in the cockpit when the base plate on his magazine spring out and 15 9mm rounds went flying out. That jet was down for a week as they looked for all the bullets.
Click to expand...


Too funny! Now those would not be a bag a skittles from an MRE would it?
 
John RV8 said:
Back in the 1970's. I worked for a Large flight school which had a policy to do a complete (annual like) inspection on any plane prior to adding it to the training fleet. This included Factory new planes. I found a bucking bar in the wing of a C-172, total time on the plane was the factory test flight and the ferry time to Florida.
Click to expand...

A friend bought a new German sailplane, and when he looped it during his first few flights he heard a loud 'thump' in the tailcone.

He found a 3 pound hammer back there.

When he called the US dealer, who was famous for nickel and diming customers, to complain, he could hear the dealer calling to his wife "Did we charge Bob for the hammer?"...:)
 
Heavier than tools ...

My story is not exactly about 'tools' left in the A/C but a much larger item that was not in the W&B information for the flight. As a "boomer" in a KC-135A, we took off with an extra 7,800 lbs of fuel in a very wrong place, the tail cone tank. That tank was supposed to have only 200 lbs of 'slosh fuel' to keep the tank flushed frequently. Seems that the fuel truck used GALLONS, and the on-board fueling tech watching the fuel panel used POUNDS. A common procedure. When the converted numbers didn't reconcile there was a little 'pencil whipping' to bring the discrepancy into line.

During T/O roll the nose wheel floated off the ground, the A/C prematurely rotated, and a generator went off line. The pilot chose to continue the T/O and we dragged our tail heavy butts over the fence and slowly climbed to cruise altitude before the cause of the problem was revealed. Draining the "200 lbs" from the cone to the aft body revealed the extra 7,800 pounds of JP-4 to a shocked crew. (Oh, did I mention that Maintenance had Red-Tagged the fuel gauge CB for the tail cone tank before engine start? Yup)

Some excellent reminders in this thread, and reminded me that accidents frequently involve a chain of seemingly disconnected events that could often be insignificant by changing any ONE action, and breaking the accident chain.
 
I once found vise grips still gripping a nut on the firewall, the only way to tighten when you're alone. it had flown around for several months. working in areas that affect control surfaces should be recognized and well respected. thanks for sharing. I will think of this next time.
 
Hinge pins

I was cowling back up after an oil change, local guy dropped by an started chatting. I let this distract me from my work, I went out for a flight right after and as I put the plane away sitting on the hook I keep them when not on the plane are the firewall side hinge pins.

Oddly my cowl never lifted up at the firewall even with no pins installed. Since then I have started checklists drafts for things routinely done like oil changes.

More than once I have dropped a screw and even though I was sure it fell on the floor, I resist the urge to just leave it, I stop what I am doing until it is found.

Cheers
 
walkman said:
I went out and had a blast last Sunday, +5, -1.5 on the fun (G) meter.

After my last Cuban the elevator felt a little strange. Decided to knock it off. As I flew home I needed way more trim than normal, including full right aileron trim. On landing I had the trim all the way back AND considerable stick force.

On exiting the aircraft I discovered that the rear seat bottom cushion had become dislodged during inverted flight and had fallen over the rear seat stick, effectively trapping the stick in the little crotch strap cut-out.

This despite new industrial strength velcro and being strapped down with the harness.

From now on no acro with the rear seat cushion in place.
Click to expand...

Always "solo" the back seat. Strap seat belt together, tighten belts, remove or secure cushions, whatever else you need to do to be 100% sure that nothing back there can hang up and jam the controls. Done it in every tandem seat airplane I've ever flown, from Decathlons to Hornets..
 
Originally Posted by walkman
I went out and had a blast last Sunday, +5, -1.5 on the fun (G) meter.

After my last Cuban the elevator felt a little strange. Decided to knock it off. As I flew home I needed way more trim than normal, including full right aileron trim. On landing I had the trim all the way back AND considerable stick force.

On exiting the aircraft I discovered that the rear seat bottom cushion had become dislodged during inverted flight and had fallen over the rear seat stick, effectively trapping the stick in the little crotch strap cut-out.

This despite new industrial strength velcro and being strapped down with the harness.

From now on no acro with the rear seat cushion in place.
Click to expand...
Thanks for writing that. It makes me think. It is something I have been a bit complacent about. Despite me knowing the rear seat of the aircraft I fly (Chipmunk) has in the past had reports of the seat cushion coming adrift and jamming controls, I have assumd my tightening seat belt will secure it, but it is mo guarantee, and as close to a guarantee is what you want. I will in future remove the seat cushion.
 
Post Maintenance Inspections

Great thread with many lessons. FOD and post maintenance inspections are near and dear to my heart. A great friend and 13 other brave soles lost their lives when departing a PZ in Iraq when my buddies tail rotor failed at the worst time. Hot, heavy and probably near full torque applied before ETL. The post crash investigation revealed a section of the tail rotor was cut like someone intentionally machined it. The tool wasn't found at the crash site but the tool boxes all have foam cut outs and a tool was missing. In addition a technical inspector sign off is required prior to closing the covers, verifying inspection of the serviced area and the maintainers tool box. Tough lesson for a couple of guys to live with for the rest of their lives.

Obvious procedure failures but if it happens there, we need to be even more diligent without someone required to come behind us and inspect.
 
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