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Bare Bones Low Cost ADSB-OUT

jeffsvan

Well Known Member
Members,
My plane is already set up for ADSB-IN with Garmin GDL39
I want a simple OUT solution.
I already have a GTN650 that was installed with a new altitude encoder.

I am thinking a used GTX330ES would be my easiest solution.
Would I need any other hardware? Air/ground switch or any odd stuff like that?

thanks
 
A Trig TT22 is probably the cheapest and easiest solution. It has a built-in altitude encoder.it can be wired up in about an hour and only needs one wire from an external source besides power and ground. I have never had a problem with one of these, and I have installed a bunch of them.
 
Or a Freeflight RANGR Lite UAT out only model. It can use your GTN as a WAAS source and has a built-in digital encoder. Will work with legacy or digital Mode C transponders. Right at $2K if you do it yourself.

In fact you could pick up a used Navworx model and run it legally since you have a panel mount WAAS navigator source that negates any proposed AD action. I bet they would be very cheap on the used market right now.

Jim
 
Another option

If your current transponder is a King 76A you may want to look at the Trig TT31. It has the same dimensions as the 76A and will work with the old transponder's encoder. It does require a squat switch which is about $125 if I recall. John
 
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Pretty disappointing options.

These "cheap bare bones options" aren't very cheap!!! Are we really going to have to spend 2000 minimum to get adsb compliant?
 
Yes.

extra characters

There's still 3 years left. I'd be willing to bet there will be some less expensive solutions by then. The technology already exists and is evolving rapidly, largely thanks to UAV's.

I plan to wait until close to the deadline and aim to spend less than $1k. My Stratux box works great for now (yes, I know it doesn't show all traffic - I use it mainly for wx) for adsb-in. Since I will install myself no need to worry about an avionics shop backlog.

Chris
 
These "cheap bare bones options" aren't very cheap!!! Are we really going to have to spend 2000 minimum to get adsb compliant?

At this point, yes. The $500 rebate helps some too. There was a cheaper option (Navworx), but for some reason the FAA picked on them. I know there were problems with NavWorx, but it could have been solved without threatening an AD to require removal, which effectively shut the company down for an indefinite period of time.
 
There's still 3 years left. I'd be willing to bet there will be some less expensive solutions by then. The technology already exists and is evolving rapidly, largely thanks to UAV's.

I plan to wait until close to the deadline and aim to spend less than $1k. My Stratux box works great for now (yes, I know it doesn't show all traffic - I use it mainly for wx) for adsb-in. Since I will install myself no need to worry about an avionics shop backlog.

Chris

I think time may be on our side allowing technology to develop. The ADSB thing is world wide and some of the products other countries already have are proof of that. If you look up www.uavionix.com/products/echo-att-20b/ you will find a UK approved, manned A/C In and Out ADSB for the equivalent for $750. which meets the UK spec. and is presently available and on Amazon! Now that still needs FAA approval for US and I guess even for the experimental market but at that price and availability someone will challenge the FAA to approve it. And they may be successful at that differential in price.
1/31/2017
I just got an email from above link that said :

Hello Dennis,

We will be announcing a new product at Sun'N'Fun for use with Experimental and LSA aircraft.

Stay tuned!
 
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If your current transponder is a King 76A you may want to look at the Trig TT31. It has the same dimensions as the 76A and will work with the old transponder's encoder. It does require a squat switch which is about $125 if I recall. John
KT-74 is essentially the same unit as the TT31. They are both made by Trig in the UK ultimately.
 
These "cheap bare bones options" aren't very cheap!!! Are we really going to have to spend 2000 minimum to get adsb compliant?

I thought I had a deal with Navworx at $1,891.15.

So far not a screw or piece of wire from them. Looks like my cost will be close to 4 grand.
 
Has anyone been using the Garmin remote transponder and controlling it with a GTN650 ? If so how is it? That is also a lower cost Garmin solution.
 
Has anyone been using the Garmin remote transponder and controlling it with a GTN650 ? If so how is it? That is also a lower cost Garmin solution.

The GTX23ES cannot be controlled by the GTN series.

Or I should say that Garmin does not allow this setup as it should be technically possible.
 
If I were equipping from scratch in order to achieve a bare-bones ADSB-out solution right now I would likely go with the fully self-contained Trig TT22 transponder and TC20 control head (the control head is also the altitude encoder - very nifty design, small, light and power-efficient). I would probably use either the current Garmin or GRT GPS sensors to provide it with position information. This would get you up and running for $3K or less. This gets you compliance with both the ADSB-out and the Mode C transponder requirements for not a whole lot more than the cost of a new Mode C transponder.

If I were a betting man, I would hold off purchasing in hopes of being able to use some of the hardware currently being developed for unmanned aerial vehicles - it promises to be small and light.

The promise of "cheap" has yet to be realized. "Cheap" is a subjective measurement, where I set my personal threshold at under $500. Your threshold will, no doubt, be different. I find $3K to kill two regulatory birds with one stone, as described in my opening paragraph, isn't such a bad deal, but still not "cheap".
 
Very impressive - I think we have some really hot competition coming soon, and at least for me, this is an unexpected side benefit of the UAV market.

It is also very interesting to se the weight/volume actually needed for these units.

Our stuff in 6.25 inch wide stack format will be mostly empty space in the future...:)
 
If you look up www.uavionix.com/products/echo-att-20b/ you will find a UK approved, manned A/C In and Out ADSB for the equivalent for $750

Regarding UAvionix, I recently inquired on their other ADS-B unit, the echo ATU-20 (http://www.uavionix.com/products/echo-atu-20/) that is being developed for the US manned market. Here is the email received in response to my questions:

Chuck,

1. Is this a FAA 2020 compliant ADS-B solution for light civil/experimental aircraft?
Yes ATU-20 meets the performance requirements for compliance in Experimental and LSA.

2. Is it on the market yet and how much are you selling it for and where can I buy it?
It is not available currently as we make some key refinements. It will be available within the next year. Currently the pricing is set at approximately $ 1300 USD but we are hoping to bring it to market at a more disruptive price point.

3. Will it have a WiFi connection for common EFB solutions, specifically iFly GPS?
Yes it works with iFLyGPS and a number of other compatible EFB applications.

4. Will it have a Serial output to talk to most EFIS systems, specifically Grand Rapids Horizon products?
There is a version with both Wi-Fi and serial output being tested.

5. What interface do you have for the transponder and will it talk to an older transponder, specifically a Garmin 320A?
The transponder interface is our own IP, the system is wireless 'sniffs' the Squawk and pressure altitiude.

6. What antennas are required?
The current packaging includes an internal remote GPS antenna and an internal ADS-B receive antenna.
For the best performance, we'd recommend installing the ADS-B antenna on the exterior belly of the aircraft and the GPS antenna where it has the least obstructed view of the horizon. Both antenna connectors are industry standard GPS uses MCX and the ADS-B transceiver antenna is connected by an SMA connector in the event you want to mount exterior antennas for both the GPS receiver and transceiver.


Cordially,
Ryan Reed
uAvionix
C: 406.249.1395 | E: [email protected]
 
I got a email from them yesterday that says they will have an announcement for the upcoming spring Sun N Fun show. Maybe they will be ready for the experiment and LSA market soon.
 
Regarding UAvionix, I recently inquired on their other ADS-B unit, the echo ATU-20 (http://www.uavionix.com/products/echo-atu-20/) that is being developed for the US manned market. Here is the email received in response to my questions:

Chuck,

1. Is this a FAA 2020 compliant ADS-B solution for light civil/experimental aircraft?
Yes ATU-20 meets the performance requirements for compliance in Experimental and LSA.

2. Is it on the market yet and how much are you selling it for and where can I buy it?
It is not available currently as we make some key refinements. It will be available within the next year. Currently the pricing is set at approximately $ 1300 USD but we are hoping to bring it to market at a more disruptive price point.

3. Will it have a WiFi connection for common EFB solutions, specifically iFly GPS?
Yes it works with iFLyGPS and a number of other compatible EFB applications.

4. Will it have a Serial output to talk to most EFIS systems, specifically Grand Rapids Horizon products?
There is a version with both Wi-Fi and serial output being tested.

5. What interface do you have for the transponder and will it talk to an older transponder, specifically a Garmin 320A?
The transponder interface is our own IP, the system is wireless 'sniffs' the Squawk and pressure altitiude.

6. What antennas are required?
The current packaging includes an internal remote GPS antenna and an internal ADS-B receive antenna.
For the best performance, we'd recommend installing the ADS-B antenna on the exterior belly of the aircraft and the GPS antenna where it has the least obstructed view of the horizon. Both antenna connectors are industry standard GPS uses MCX and the ADS-B transceiver antenna is connected by an SMA connector in the event you want to mount exterior antennas for both the GPS receiver and transceiver.


Cordially,
Ryan Reed
uAvionix
C: 406.249.1395 | E: [email protected]

That is fantastic news! I'm gonna install my system at the same time as my annual (Feb 2019), so they'll have plenty of time to sort the bugs out.
 
Looking at the above link, (www.uavionix.com/products/echo-att-20b), for the uavionix echo ADS-B.... under Limitations it states
"EC systems are designed for aircraft to aircraft visibility. An EC device will not meet standards to allow you to enter controlled airspace." That was copy and pasted from their site so I'm confused as how it meets any FAA criteria in the US.
 
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It does not sound like a good deal to me. After buying required accessories and shipping and tax, it will cost $1500. Then the FAA sends a letter saying to stop using it because it does not meet the rules, it will cost another $3000 for one that does. $1500 + $3000 = $4500 I would buy one that is on the FAA's approved LIST.
Are portable ADS-B-OUT units approved?
 
TRIG TN72 GPS RECEIVER

Certified GPS position source... Available from Aircraft Spruce March 30th, 2017
Cost $359.00:)
Bad news is the antenna cost about the same..:eek:
 
Certified GPS position source... Available from Aircraft Spruce March 30th, 2017
Cost $359.00:)
Bad news is the antenna cost about the same..:eek:

Wait another year, or two!

Don't buy the "A", or "B" model.

Patience is a virtue........
 
Looks like a new Uavionix model is coming soon. The ATU-20B is gone and now there is a new EchoUAT and looks to support EFIS (Dynon, MGL and GRT), direct connections and Transponder monitoring for the most compatibility. Supports existing compliant GPS signals feeding an EFIS, but they also have their own affordable GPS source, SkyFYX and spec says SIL=3 and SDA=2. Look at the size of it!!!

http://www.uavionix.com/products/echo-uat/

I saw this because and an article from Paul from AVweb and he seems pretty enthused about the Uavionix release for Sun 'n Fun. If this is it, looks like what most experimental, light sport aircraft need.

Now I just need to get rid of my Cessna and into my dream RV-8 with a Dynon Skyview.
 
Skyvision Extreme

While surfing the other day, I came across SkyVision Xtreme for an ADS-B In/Out for $1300. This seems like the deal. Does anyone know about them, or better yet, have one?

http://www.skyvisionxtreme.com/?page_id=149

This unit was originally called PADS-B and it was sold by NavWorx. I contacted Skyvision about the "new" Salus-3 and was told it meets the requirements for light sport and experimentals.

After waiting about six months I recently tried contacting them for some customer reports. Absolutely no response! Sound familiar?
 
I saw this in another forum:

Got a new LG 7 inch tablet today, so have been playing with it using the $13.99 XRadio ADS-B in dongle. Works great. I'll have to see how it is in the plane, but with the 7 inch display mounted on the yoke I think I will really like it. I paid $60 for the LG tablet, so complete ADS-B in for about $75.

It is pretty much self-constrained (can't connect to FF or WingX Pro), but it is a great price..
 
Now! Here's a new ADS- B unit thats advertised as ADSB made easy. I'm sure the GA will be able to use!! Not sure if it has built in position source or not but bet that it doesn't. Advertised as just now available and ADSB made easy. But Hang on to you belt buckle when you see the price tag!!! Kind of hard for me to see how you can wrap up that much product and research into a unit that's about the size of a cereal box. Oh well probably not the one for me!!!!
http://bendixking.com/V4/Products/S..._medium=niche_site&utm_content=banner&ss=paid

But actually the next item down in the link is a news release on the uavonics ECHO XX to be released at Sun N Fun that actually may be worth reading.
 
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