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Class III medical and PBOR2

RV7A Flyer

Well Known Member
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First, let me state right off, so that this doesn't get deleted...this post is NOT about the politics of passing PBOR2. This is just some thoughts following a discussion with my AME today during my flight physical.

[ed. If I'm not at the computer, and this turns too politics in any way, I would ask one of the moderators to lock it down. There are MUCH more appropriate boards for those discussions. FMI: rule #3 at http://www.vansairforce.net/rules.htm v/r,dr]

1. Yes, the FAA is still all het up about sleep apnea, BMI, risk factors, etc. Make damned sure you study up on the new guidelines and be prepared to answer a series of questions. The AME guidelines are at https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/media/guide.pdf

If you manage to trip yourself into one of the higher risk categories, you'll get the pleasure of doling out bunches of money for sleep studies, a Special Issuance, etc. And it doesn't appear to hard to end up there...BMI over 30 and your spouse says you snore? Bingo. Etc.

2. We talked for a while about the PBOR2 new medical requirements. He hit on something I had thought of...that the language of the bill requires your primary care physician to *sign a statement* that you are medically fit to fly. His concern (and mine) is that what will happen is that most doctors will NOT sign such a statement, as it opens them to huge liability in the event of an accident. Which puts you...where? Back to going to an AME (who has some level of liability protection by virtue of representing the FAA)? Shopping for doctors? What?

Just some conversation-starting topics...wondered what others' thoughs were on these items.
 
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First, let me state right off, so that this doesn't get deleted...this post is NOT about the politics of passing PBOR2. This is just some thoughts following a discussion with my AME today during my flight physical.

1. Yes, the FAA is still all het up about sleep apnea, BMI, risk factors, etc. Make damned sure you study up on the new guidelines and be prepared to answer a series of questions. The AME guidelines are at https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/media/guide.pdf

If you manage to trip yourself into one of the higher risk categories, you'll get the pleasure of doling out bunches of money for sleep studies, a Special Issuance, etc. And it doesn't appear to hard to end up there...BMI over 30 and your spouse says you snore? Bingo. Etc.

2. We talked for a while about the PBOR2 new medical requirements. He hit on something I had thought of...that the language of the bill requires your primary care physician to *sign a statement* that you are medically fit to fly. His concern (and mine) is that what will happen is that most doctors will NOT sign such a statement, as it opens them to huge liability in the event of an accident. Which puts you...where? Back to going to an AME (who has some level of liability protection by virtue of representing the FAA)? Shopping for doctors? What?

Just some conversation-starting topics...wondered what others' thoughs were on these items.

Here's the wording from the bill (certification that physician would sign):

“I certify that I discussed all items on this checklist with the individual during my examination, discussed any medications the individual is taking that could interfere with their ability to safely operate an aircraft or motor vehicle, and performed an examination that included all of the items on this checklist. I certify that I am not aware of any medical condition that, as presently treated, could interfere with the individual’s ability to safely operate an aircraft...."

I am a physician, married to a non-pilot family physician who I have discussed this with. In both our opinions, some physicians will have a problem with this, many/most will not. Physicians sign off every day on similar questions - for example "pre-op" physicals which "clear" a patient for surgery. The key words, "as presently treated", give considerable protection, because changes in condition that might lead to incapacitation are not "as presently treated" when they actually occur. Most physicians are prepared to defend their medical opinion: if I apply my knowledge, training and experience and determine that conditions/medications are not - at present - likely to interfere with a pilots ability to fly safely, this is very difficult to challenge, especially in the context of an established/ongoing patient-physician relationship.

This seems to be a highly controversial topic among non-physicians (discussed on this and other forums), but most physicians who've commented are not seeing as a huge barrier. Of course, just as the FAA does - but almost certainly in a less heavy-handed way - the physician might want to do some (reasonable in most cases) testing to support this certification.

I see this as no different from what a physician should do routinely - evaluate areas that may be high-risk for a patient. A key factor/question will be the existing relationship with a family/personal physician - if this relationship is established, the issue should be much less inflammatory for at least two reasons: the doc will be familiar with the patient's overall health/situation and will be willing to invest some time to learn / understand that patient's needs - in the case of a pilot one of those needs will be signing off on the FAA form. It's reasonable to expect, of course, that the physician will want to do the full/actual physical exam and supporting testing where required.

In any case, most AME's will be comfortable with the issue and should be willing to do these exams - not because they have any particular liability protection from the FAA but because they understand the FAA's processes and (presumably) the intent of the legislation.

I'm not aware of much history of litigation against AME's, who by issuing a certificate are de facto certifying a pilot's fitness for flight. The FAA doesn't protect physicians from liability (to my knowledge anyway - and for a period of time I was qualified as an AME). Rather, following the process and applying the knowledge that all physician's possess are the protection. It's very hard to challenge (legally speaking) what a physician states is true at a moment in time, especially if the medical record is properly supportive.

I'm interested in what other physicians on this board might think.
 
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BMI > 30 ? wait, I just did a half marathon, this calculation says I am Obese? what a bunch of.......read my mind and insert here (...........)
 
Turner - I am a practicing occupational medicine physician (BC in OM and BC in IM). I certify people all the time for work and task fitness.

It is my unsubstantiated personal opinion that many doctors will be reluctant to sign formal paperwork certifying that he/she is "unaware of any medical condition that, as presently treated, could interfere with the individual's ability to safely operate an aircraft…"

I do think a lot of docs will see this as outside of their area of expertise. Not a big deal for a doc to certify a young person with no acute or chronic illnesses and who is taking no medications. But, once a person has one or more chronic illnesses and takes one or more medications (lots of pilots like this), it gets more difficult for the physician who has no specialized training.
 
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Turner - I am a practicing occupational medicine physician (BC in OM and BC in IM). I certify people all the time for work and task fitness.

It is my unsubstantiated personal opinion that many doctors will be reluctant to sign formal paperwork certifying that he/she is "unaware of any medical condition that, as presently treated, could interfere with the individual's ability to safely operate an aircraft…"

I do think a lot of docs will see this as outside of their area of expertise. Not a big deal for a doc to certify a young person with no acute or chronic illnesses and who is taking no medications. But, once a person has one or more chronic illnesses and takes one or more medications (lots of pilots like this), it gets more difficult for the physician who has no specialized training.

I think many non-AME's who are willing to do these exams will be those who invest some time or have some interest in aviation - and/or are willing to be educated by their (pilot) patients. However, I guess I'm more of an optimist in this regard than some. It will be interesting to see how it goes.

May be an interesting business opportunity for older physicians like me? Still working (non-clinical) but maybe in a few years I'll open a part time "PBOR2" practice. Cash only of course. Meet me at my hangar. (This is - for those who are literal - a joke!)
 
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I think many non-AME's who are willing to do these exams will be those who invest some time or have some interest in aviation - and/or are willing to be educated by their patients. However, I guess I'm more of an optimist in this regard than some. It will be interesting to see how it goes.

May be an interesting business opportunity for older physicians like me? Still working (non-clinical) but maybe in a few years I'll open a part time "PBOR2" practice. Cash only of course. Meet me at my hangar. (This is - for those who are literal - a joke!)

Ha-ha, I had a physical a long time ago on a Saturday morning lined up with about 25 of other guys at the local airport operations office. Those were the good old days for sure.

Meanwhile, could someone explain what PBOR2 is? If one has a current medical certificate, has his qualification to fly not been certified?
Why the provision for additional certification in the legislation?
 
Ha-ha, I had a physical a long time ago on a Saturday morning lined up with about 25 of other guys at the local airport operations office. Those were the good old days for sure.

Meanwhile, could someone explain what PBOR2 is? If one has a current medical certificate, has his qualification to fly not been certified?
Why the provision for additional certification in the legislation?

It's not additional, it replaces the AME we currently do.

I am scratching my head on this one. I haven't read the verbiage but I find it difficult to believe that a general practitioner is going to want to shoulder this burden now. I guess it's time to read the actual language and see what it looks like.
 
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It is my unsubstantiated personal opinion that many doctors will be reluctant to sign formal paperwork certifying that he/she is "unaware of any medical condition that, as presently treated, could interfere with the individual's ability to safely operate an aircraft?"

.

I am not a medical dr. but I agree. My current primary care physician thinks flying airplanes is crazy in the first place. Getting him to sign this will cost me more in fees and tests then a III class medical costs me today (80$) and will take longer ( currently 5-10 minutes ).

So I really would have only two practical choises. Change my primary care physician to a pilot or similarly inclined person or keep getting class III medicals.

So as I can see how pbor2 can help pilots with health problems and I might be very glad about it in the future as I am not getting younger either I don't see how it helps me now at all.

Just out of curiosity can any of the medical doctors comment if the fee of the consultation required under pbor2 would be more or less expensive then a III class medical for a healthy person in there opinion.

I was flying gliders without a medical for a decade and was really hoping for the same.... .

Oliver
 
The more I read and study this, the more I believe it offers very little in actual change. It simply changes who can do our medical exams - but as pointed out, how many doctors that are not AME are going to shoulder this AND how many AME are going to lighten up on historical requirements?

This may just be smoke and mirrors....smoke and mirrors.
 
I'm not a Dr., but...

Just out of curiosity can any of the medical doctors comment if the fee of the consultation required under pbor2 would be more or less expensive then a III class medical for a healthy person in there opinion.

Most people get a general physical exam annually anyway. This will only be required every 4 years. It would normally be done during one of your physical exams. I don't see why the Dr. would charge extra.
 
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I am a retired physician and a no longer flying pilot.
You would be amazed at the frivolous and crazy things that patients and family members sue for.

Even if you have done no harm and win a lawsuit you have to suffer the front page news when the suit is filed. Spend a lot of time and money and put up with a lot of grief before it is over. Then when you win it is back page news in small print.

Malpractice insurance pays legal fees an awards for harm to a patient.

It will not, however, cover a doctor if his pilot patient kills a passenger and the passengers family sues.

Even if you are found not to be at fault the cost of the defense would be huge and out of pocket.

No way would I ever sign off on one of these physicals.
 
Most people get a general physical exam annually anyway. This will only be required every 4 years. It would normally be done during one of you physical exams. I don't see why the Dr. would charge extra.

Well I just assumed that going through the checklist will take some time and as my dr. charges for his time there would be an additional fee on top of the general physical. Happy to be wrong.... .

Oliver
 
Well I just assumed that going through the checklist will take some time and as my dr. charges for his time there would be an additional fee on top of the general physical. Happy to be wrong.... .

Oliver

YDMMV! (Your Doctor's Mileage May Vary!)
 
I'm a retired physician and I think most non-AMEs will balk at this, unless maybe they are used to doing other DOT physicals for truck drivers and they are willing to get up to speed on the process. I wouldn't be surprised if AOPA or some other organization may provide support. They don't know what the vision requirements are (or even have a good way to check), which meds are OK, etc. You might be surprised at the astronaut-quality standard of health a non-pilot physician assumes you must have to fly.

As it stands now I can see going to your same AME for the PBOR2 physical, but only once every 4 years, so that's an improvement over the current biennial requirement. For a class 3 physical you have started a paper trail once you enter the office and begin the physical. You have to either pass the physical right then, or try to resolve an issue with the FAA in charge of the process. Under the new rule you can resolve an issue with the AME or your doctor, or start all over on another day.
 
I'm a retired physician and I think most non-AMEs will balk at this, unless maybe they are used to doing other DOT physicals for truck drivers and they are willing to get up to speed on the process. I wouldn't be surprised if AOPA or some other organization may provide support. They don't know what the vision requirements are (or even have a good way to check), which meds are OK, etc. You might be surprised at the astronaut-quality standard of health a non-pilot physician assumes you must have to fly.

As it stands now I can see going to your same AME for the PBOR2 physical, but only once every 4 years, so that's an improvement over the current biennial requirement. For a class 3 physical you have started a paper trail once you enter the office and begin the physical. You have to either pass the physical right then, or try to resolve an issue with the FAA in charge of the process. Under the new rule you can resolve an issue with the AME or your doctor, or start all over on another day.

It's an advantage that the FAA doesn't have to get involved under PBOR2 - a physician just has to certify that current conditions aren't an impediment to safe flight. There is a guideline for the exam: I do agree that physicians who are familiar with DOT type exams will probably be more comfortable with this exam and I think it's a very good analogy based on what I understand now. Hopefully AOPA and individual pilots will be proactive in working with physicians. It won't be surprising if an informal sub-group of physicians emerges - those who are willing to do PBOR2 exams.
 
As others have suggested, I do think the path would develop toward people continuing to go to an AME.

The difference from the current rule would be that if an AME doesn't feel comfortable signing off, he just doesn't and everything stops right there. There is none of the denial to be resolved etc. and the long-term consequences are not such a problem.

In fact, the process would actually parallel a flight review. If a CFI isn't willing to sign the logbook, he just doesn't make any entry at all.

Dan
 
In fact, the process would actually parallel a flight review. If a CFI isn't willing to sign the logbook, he just doesn't make any entry at all.

Dan

Strictly speaking, FAA guidelines call for the CFI to sign the logbook as "dual given", with no mention of a "failed" flight review. But otherwise a good analogy- the physician would just note "physical given" in his records.
 
AME

As a senior AME for over 27 yrs, a CFII, a member of the EAA aeromedical council and a retired AF flight surgeon, I do feel some protection in medically certifying a pilot by affirming that the pilot medically meets the requirements as stated by the FAA. My standard line is that we are not going to do any more or less during the exam than the standard specifies. Either the standard is met or it isn't. If it isn't, we apply for a waiver. As long as I don't stray from that standard, I believe that it would be difficult to state that I was negligent in my duties as a flight doc. A BFR is much more subjective and worries me to the point that I only provide those to people that I know well. Still that is not good protection if an event occurs despite the fact all that I am certifying that they met an ill defined standard on the day that I tested them. Preparation for a checkride is different in that an FAA designee or the FAA themselves certifies or doesn't certify that the pilot is ready to hold the certificate. We on the EAA aeromedical council have been solidly supporting the PBOR2 and have done considerable amounts of work behind the scenes. Significant compromises have been made to get this to the point that it is but had to be done IOT get the legislative support that we needed to get anything passed.

I think that there will be some push back by many physicians about signing off a pilot unless a standard is provided. I will feel better if I can meet a well defined standard for the certification statement for a given pilot. When we no longer could do DOT physicals without certification, I and others were relieved because it was much more subjective than the FAA certification. Over 30 yrs of military service (AD and ANG) has made me appreciative of meeting/exceeding defined standards.

My $0.02 and not representing EAA.

John
RV-8, A-36
 
It's not additional, it replaces the AME we currently do.

I am scratching my head on this one. I haven't read the verbiage but I find it difficult to believe that a general practitioner is going to want to shoulder this burden now. I guess it's time to read the actual language and see what it looks like.

I had a cancerous polyp removed during a "rear entry probe" - it was all removed and clear. My AME worked with me and the FAA to ensure it wasn't listed as colon cancer and he wanted a letter from the doctor saying I was fit to fly.

I got the letter but the doctor was in CYA (sort of appropriate..:)...) mode and ordered an extra CAT scan and PET scan - don't go near an airport or the border for a day, the Geiger counters will go off. :eek:

Your usual doctors might test to the new requirements but you might also end up with lots of extra just-in-case tests anyway.
 
We on the EAA aeromedical council have been solidly supporting the PBOR2 and have done considerable amounts of work behind the scenes. Significant compromises have been made to get this to the point that it is but had to be done IOT get the legislative support that we needed to get anything passed.

Then didn't you get blind-sided on this physician sign-off requirement? My understanding is that it was a last-minute amendment by one of the Senators.
 
OK, I've read everything I could fin on the PBOR2, EXCEPT the actual language. It seems impossible to render an opinion without knowing exactly what they are trying to push forward.
 
Here's another small issue with the language. It requires the physician to do an exam of:

(XX) vision (distant, near, and intermediate vision, field of vision, color vision, and ocular alignment);

My regular primary care physician doesn't do this sort of exam...that's why I have an eye doctor who takes care of it, and issues prescriptions for glasses/contacts. And why the AME essentially confirms that I can halfway see things and haven't somehow grown colorblind in my advancing years.

What do you do when your doctor doesn't cover one or more items on the checklist? Get TWO doctors to sign off? Or, again, go doctor-shopping?

What happened to "you go to your doctor every X years and get a checkup, watch a medical video from AOPA, and note that in your logbook"?
 
Physicians sign off every day on similar questions - for example "pre-op" physicals which "clear" a patient for surgery. The key words, "as presently treated", give considerable protection, because changes in condition that might lead to incapacitation are not "as presently treated" when they actually occur.

I don't really see this as equivalent, though, for a couple of reasons. First, it's clearly within the realm of what doctors do...examine a patient and ascertain that a medical procedure can be conducted on them. Second, you're not certifying the health of the person actually doing the procedure, which would be the analogy to a pilot. (An analogy here might be if a doctor had to get a medical certification every four years from another doctor, and the risks for the certifying doctor should the doctor/patient botch a surgery or kill someone or something...what liability would the examining doctor face? At the least, a costly lawsuit, no?)

I don't know how often doctors sign off, using someone *else's* form, a patient for some sort of activity like this. I know about return-to-work approval (I think that's on their own form), and maybe giving kids a physical and signing school PE sorts of paperwork. Beyond that, I just don't know how common it would be for a patient to show up with a checklist for the doctor to follow, then sign a statement that they did it and the patient can be allowed to _____________.
 
Goverance

You know, all we really wanted was to have the third class medical to be the same deal as the sport pilots, not a bunch of new procedures. Somehow, with the obese stuff and new regulations, I believe the FAA has got what it wanted to begin with.
cj
 
"The Bill"

After reading most of the bill an old saying comes to mind.

I know you believe what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant.
 
Again - smoke and mirrors. The FAA gets what it wants - no real change. EAA and AOPA claim they "done good". And everyone who isn't a pilot thinks that something real was accomplished. I just don't see how this is any different than current requirements except it happens every 4 years instead of two. VERY disappointing.
 
Original Arguement

If I am not mistaken, the original argument is that the sport pilot medical program has been shown through actual data to be safe and therefore should extend to the non-commercial third class medical. It really wasn't that difficult but somehow, the current form seems to be a bit far from the original intent. This whole obese thing just wont go away.
 
Mexico

How about going over the boarder to Canada or Mexico? It doesn't say it has to be a US physician. I am sure I could find a Dr. in Mexico to sign it.
Nigel
KCCR
 
My feelings exactly. I was in hope I could maybe move back to a Cherokee 140 or maybe 180 I had flown for many years or such, no dice, I am still stuck with the LSA group of planes. Somehow I am much safer flying a totally unfamiliar plane instead - just because the FAA says I am better off doing that. Makes no sense to me at all.

Again - smoke and mirrors. The FAA gets what it wants - no real change. EAA and AOPA claim they "done good". And everyone who isn't a pilot thinks that something real was accomplished. I just don't see how this is any different than current requirements except it happens every 4 years instead of two. VERY disappointing.
 
Rendering sausage

I finally took the time to read the amended PBOR2 bill which has passed the Senate. Like many Congressional bills, IMHO, this bill has deviated greatly from its intended effect. In fact, to me it looks like, the FAA has scored a huge victory with the bill in its current form.

In exchange for the current 3rd class medical, which is done usually quickly in an AME's office, and gives the recipient unfettered access for at least two years, to flying appropriate aircraft in day, night, IFR conditions, he/she is now restricted by going this route, to VFR and some limitations on airplanes.

In addition, the pilot is now required to complete the same questionnaire he did originally, only this time it will be interpreted by a non-AME physician.

The entire responsibility for safety of flight has been transferred from the FAA to the pilot and his primary physician and the physician has significant added liability to his practice. (Never underestimate the legal process in case some kind of mishap occurs). I am also a retired physician, among other experiences from which to draw, and, I agree with some of the other commenters, from a physician's point of view this is a very significant negative.

New record keeping rules would be in effect and would have to be kept in the logbook and possibly in the aircraft to insure compliance in a ramp check.

A new educational process will also have to be completed, kept and tracked for ever as well. Will the pilot have to carry this as well for proof of compliance?

More signatures on legal documents will be required from the pilot.

No one has mentioned yet how the insurance companies will key off this legislation. Will they demand copies of all of this new paperwork as well, and/or add their own demands?

I think it was Mark Twain, (or maybe Will Rogers) who made the comment "No life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness is safe as long as Congress is in session."

So it goes.
Dave A.
 
Then didn't you get blind-sided on this physician sign-off requirement? My understanding is that it was a last-minute amendment by one of the Senators.

Yes, there have been several surprises. We gave our opinions and had little to do with it after that.
 
You know, all we really wanted was to have the third class medical to be the same deal as the sport pilots, not a bunch of new procedures. Somehow, with the obese stuff and new regulations, I believe the FAA has got what it wanted to begin with.
cj

And perhaps even more. As part of the on-line instructional materials, you'll have to submit (electronically) the name and license number of your doctor.

That's getting pretty close to giving them full access to your medical records...
 
If I read the press release (same one from both AOPA & EAA) correctly, their interpretation was that the physician signoff would be a one-time thing, after which you'd just be required to see your doctor every 4 years & note the visit in your logbook.

The text of the bill does look intimidating. I wonder how that exam checklist compares to the actual exam checklist for a current 3rd class medical.

BTW, if you can tell me where to get a 5 minute $80 3rd class medical, I'm all in. I'm not a total idiot, and it takes me about 10 times that long just to fill out the online application. And at least 20 times that long in the doctor's office. And about twice that much money. And I live in a relatively 'low rent' state.

Charlie
 
The text of the bill does look intimidating. I wonder how that exam checklist compares to the actual exam checklist for a current 3rd class medical.

It's pretty much the same thing as the current AME guidance, just condensed to subject headings instead of full explanations.

Yes, the current guidance for medical certificates includes "hernia", "anus", and "G-U" (genito-urinary) exams. I have no idea whatsoever what these things have to do with being able to fly an airplane; I suspect a lot of the items on that list were just some doctor's idea of "a healthy person" and they got codified into guidance by some desk-driver.

The current and proposed medical process gives the doctor open license for a fishing expedition; this bill doesn't change that, and it only makes the process slightly less adversarial.
 
In exchange for the current 3rd class medical, which is done usually quickly in an AME's office, and gives the recipient unfettered access for at least two years, to flying appropriate aircraft in day, night, IFR conditions, he/she is now restricted by going this route, to VFR and some limitations on airplanes.

Dave A.

Per the FAQ's on the AOPA site:

You can still go get a 3rd class medical if you want to...

You can also still fly at night and IFR...
 
BTW, if you can tell me where to get a 5 minute $80 3rd class medical, I'm all in. I'm not a total idiot, and it takes me about 10 times that long just to fill out the online application. And at least 20 times that long in the doctor's office. And about twice that much money. And I live in a relatively 'low rent' state.

Charlie

Got my last one 12 month ago so this might have gone up a couple of bucks since then but I went to:

http://www.somersetairport.com/doctors-hours/

my on line form is pretty much empty except for my regular checkup not sure why that would take 50min to fill in.

You really spend an hour and 40 minutes with your AME for a 3rd class medical and you are healthy? Would change the AME in that case.... .

BTW don't take me as advocating for a 3rd class medical. Far from it. The only point I wanted to make is that the PBOR2 is making things WORSE NOT BETTER for the healthy pilot. More forms to document, online course to take, doctors to convenience etc.... . All things you can get wrong and I am sure the FAA would be happy to fine and ground you for any admin error in that space.

The ONLY advantage I can see is that you can't fail an exam, therefore, you can keep flying light sport aircraft after you can't find a doctor who wants to sign you off any more. Unless the FAA comes up with a clever regulation to prevent even that.

Maybe you should move to a high rent state and save on the medical :)

Oliver
 
Got my last one 12 month ago so this might have gone up a couple of bucks since then but I went to:

http://www.somersetairport.com/doctors-hours/

my on line form is pretty much empty except for my regular checkup not sure why that would take 50min to fill in.

You really spend an hour and 40 minutes with your AME for a 3rd class medical and you are healthy? Would change the AME in that case.... .

BTW don't take me as advocating for a 3rd class medical. Far from it. The only point I wanted to make is that the PBOR2 is making things WORSE NOT BETTER for the healthy pilot. More forms to document, online course to take, doctors to convenience etc.... . All things you can get wrong and I am sure the FAA would be happy to fine and ground you for any admin error in that space.

The ONLY advantage I can see is that you can't fail an exam, therefore, you can keep flying light sport aircraft after you can't find a doctor who wants to sign you off any more. Unless the FAA comes up with a clever regulation to prevent even that.

Maybe you should move to a high rent state and save on the medical :)

Oliver

Enjoy your healthy pain free 3rd class medical experiences while they last. The odds say that won't last forever...

It does not take much to start down the road toward pain and suffering with the existing process.

Nothing is forcing you to use the PBOR2 reform method. AOPA states that the 3rd class medical will still be available for those that want to use it....
 
Enjoy your healthy pain free 3rd class medical experiences while they last. The odds say that won't last forever...

It does not take much to start down the road toward pain and suffering with the existing process.

Nothing is forcing you to use the PBOR2 reform method. AOPA states that the 3rd class medical will still be available for those that want to use it....

Both of your points are well taken. That's why I made them in my first post on this thread.... . I am just frustrated as this was advertised by both EAA and AOPA of making things better for everybody .... . I can see that it makes it better for many and maybe that should be good enough but ... .
 
BTW don't take me as advocating for a 3rd class medical. Far from it. The only point I wanted to make is that the PBOR2 is making things WORSE NOT BETTER for the healthy pilot. More forms to document, online course to take, doctors to convenience etc.... . All things you can get wrong and I am sure the FAA would be happy to fine and ground you for any admin error in that space.

And how long until they amend the process so that you give them permission to request your medical records from the doctor when you submit the forms? Or when they decide they need to "audit" the process and start randomly selecting pilots to audit ("requesting" medical records from their doctor)?

This is essentially the same process we have now, just every 4 years instead of 3 (or 2). It's about as far from where we started as can be without just flat-out doing nothing.
 
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