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To 430 or not to 430, that is the question

N546RV

N546RV

Well Known Member
As I move along with the fuselage, I'm realizing that I really need to start firming up all my vague avionics plans. I'm pretty well set on doing a Skyview system with a single 10" display, but I'm torn as to whether or not I want to also have a 430 (or maybe a GTN650, though I think that's a little rich for my blood).

Primary mission will be day/night VFR, mainly because I'm not instrument rated. But I do intend to get the instrument rating eventually, and I'd like to have the option to go IFR on those otherwise-nice days where there's an obnoxious overcast to deal with.

From my perspective, it seems that the potential IFR mission is about the only reason to even consider a 430. My understanding is that Skyview has a perfectly serviceable GPS navigation package for VFR flight planning.

So I suppose the question is, what other options exist for fulfilling the "occasional IFR" mission other than a 430? Are there other (maybe more cost-efficient) certified GPSs I can look at that will still talk to the Skyview? Or should I just bite the bullet, put in a 430, and be done with it?

Or maybe I should abandon the IFR mission entirely.

I'll be here, wringing my hands endlessly, hoping for insight...
 
I mated a G430 to my Skyview for my IFR -10. In addition to the certified GPS, it gives you NAV (VOR/ILS), an additional Com, plus meets the current ADSB requirement coming up in 2020. The SkyView autopilot does a nice fully coupled ILS off of the g430. You won't get that from a stand alone GPS and you will want ILS capability for training for your IFR ticket.

I bought a nice used one and have been quite happy with it. You will need the ARINC box to interface with the SkyView.
 
If you do go 430, make it a 430W with WAAS. That let's you do LPV approaches, among other things. And the ratio of LPV approaches to ILS is about 3:1, although most runways with ILS also have LPV. On the other hand, check with your avionics shop about parts obsolescence. You may find that 430 screens are no longer manufactured, and if you ever need to replace your screen....
 
After a 1 1/2 years of flying my RV7 I finally broke down and put in a GTN 650.
It broke the bank but with the price difference and garmin support on the 430, I opted for the 650. Having only one radio before with my Dynon Skyview before I also had to add an audio panel GMA 240.

Took the new up grade of the Dynon 12.1 to get the GTN to pass the FAA ADS-B in flight test...but works great now.

Jack
 
Comparing costs of the 430W vs. 650

as I have been doing ---- used 430W vs 650 is only a couple of grand difference, that I have seen --- 650 will be supported much longer than the 430. (I cannot believe what they ask for 250 and 350s!).

R.
 
I have used my Skyview and SL30 equipped 7 for IFR since built. You don't absolutely need a 430 or 650 to punch through a layer of clouds or even do an ILS approach. But since GPS approaches have become the norm at outlying airports you may be doing yourself an injustice in the long run if you don't go that route now.
I am also faced with adding equipment for ADSB out. The cost of my SL30, 327 transponder, and a UAT transceiver may be a little less than you using the Dynon transponder and 650. But you would be capable of GPS approaches.
 
I flew the 430W for a couple of years before I did my IFR. For the most part without my IFR knowledge it was just a lot of extra weight and too much money for VFR work. A simple Garmin 496 is more then adequate for VFR flight.
Leave extra height in your radio stack for an upgrade later if you decide to go that way. Save your money now until you decide to go IFR. At that time the 650 vs 430 decisioin will probably be a lot clearer.
 
If you just want to get over a layer of clouds, there's some affordable older options you could consider, such as simply adding a GNS 400(W), or a GNC 300/300XL.

These are no longer supported, or no longer will be shortly however ... but you know, if you're willing to live with an unsupported unit anyways, could just as easily be a 300/300XL ... or even, if you have comm already, just use the 155XL ...

Then there's the Avidyne IFD 540, and soon to appear IFD 440 ... no major price difference with the Garmins however ...
 
I just finished my 9a and started flying it less than a month ago.

I talked with Stein extensively about different IFR options. Frankly there aren't a lot of them, and none of them are cheap... Assuming at least that you want /G, and without it you are really limiting yourself.

What I eventually decided was to buy everything for the 650, except the 650. I have the wiring, tray, etc. all done and in my 9A. Once I'm done with Phase I, and recover a bit financially I'll order the 650 box from Stein. It should then be a simple matter of plugging it in, and doing some configuration on my G3X to make it work.


-Dan
 
Philip,

The honest truth (since you're not yet instrument rated) is that you will probably cancel as many trips out of Houston due to weaetrh, even with an Instrument ticket. It isn't a "go anytime, anywhere" insurance policy in an RV. Teh ratign and equipment are gret to have - don't get me wrong - but if you are still building and do't yet have the rating, youhave ots of other ways to spend your money and time. I'd scar for the future (put in necessary wiring to/from the Skyview for a 430 or 650) and go enjoy your VFR machine.

Realistically, you're not going to file IFR to go to Brenham for a burger.

Just one way to look at it....

Paul
 
I wouldn't plan on a 4-anything. There's another post today complaining of the fiscal raping from Garmin for a new 430 card, and support for it will be gone long before the GTN. Dweyant 's suggestion is what I'd do if short of bucks right now. Eventually, you'll want the certified GPS source for ADS, and the other features are nice and needed if you do get your ticket. Meanwhile, install a SL-40 for comm and use the Dynon's GPS for nav. Besides a 650, I also have a -40 which I use exclusively for comm since it's easier to use than the 650 and you won't be messing with your nav box at a critical time. (And you don't need an audio panel.)

John Siebold
 
I installed a Apollo 2001nms in my TriPacer about 5 years ago. It cost me 500.00 back then. That included switches and extra indicator required for IFR approaches. (Used out of a C210). It works so well I plan on putting it in my RV9. There are many older GPS units that you can pick up very reasonable. If your not flying IFR all the time why spend all that money on a 430. That being said, I would love to have a 430.
Mike
 
dweyant said:
I just finished my 9a and started flying it less than a month ago.

I talked with Stein extensively about different IFR options. Frankly there aren't a lot of them, and none of them are cheap... Assuming at least that you want /G, and without it you are really limiting yourself.

What I eventually decided was to buy everything for the 650, except the 650. I have the wiring, tray, etc. all done and in my 9A. Once I'm done with Phase I, and recover a bit financially I'll order the 650 box from Stein. It should then be a simple matter of plugging it in, and doing some configuration on my G3X to make it work.


-Dan
Click to expand...

This is what I'm leaning towards now. Block off space in the panel for a 430/650 (making sure said space doesn't impinge on the cabin brace), and leave it blank for the time being.

Paul's post kind of leads to another thought I've had: Since I'm not instrument rated, I don't even really know what I don't know about flying IFR. That alone is a good reason not go all speculative and buy stuff for a mission that won't even exist until some unknown amount of time after the build is done.

I think I was stuck on feeling the need to make the panel perfect in its final state right from the get-go, but just saving space for a future upgrade seems like a good middle ground. And that's $6-8k less that I have to conjure up before I can go fly.
 
I plan to get my IFR ticket in my 6 once I get it in the air later this summer. I got an SL-30, as I thought this would be a good investment I also found a nice KLN-90B for $800. It is approach certified and it connected up well to my D100 for an HSI (along with the SL-30 and 396).

There are several ways to get it done without spending $10K. However, they come with trade-offs and risks. I probably couldn't get my KLN-90 repaired cost-effectively, but I am OK considering it disposable, given the savings over the newer units.

Larry
 
lr172 said:
I plan to get my IFR ticket in my 6 once I get it in the air later this summer. I got an SL-30, as I thought this would be a good investment I also found a nice KLN-90B for $800. It is approach certified and it connected up well to my D100 for an HSI (along with the SL-30 and 396).

There are several ways to get it done without spending $10K. However, they come with trade-offs and risks. I probably couldn't get my KLN-90 repaired cost-effectively, but I am OK considering it disposable, given the savings over the newer units.

Larry
Click to expand...

I did this (except with a KLN-89B) and have been exceedingly happy with it. It works great for approaches, and they're common enough that I wouldn't get it repaired - I'd just buy another replacement for $600 off eBay.
 
N941WR said:
Has anyone tried the Avidyne?

It is supposed to be a slide in replacement for the Garmin.
Click to expand...

There are a bunch of reviews over on beechtalk, it is almost universally preferred over both the older and newer Garmins (430/530/650/etc). However it costs about the same as a new garmin, so there isn't much price savings there (if any).
 
RayA said:
There are a bunch of reviews over on beechtalk, it is almost universally preferred over both the older and newer Garmins (430/530/650/etc). However it costs about the same as a new garmin, so there isn't much price savings there (if any).
Click to expand...

Yes, but it is SOTG! (Something Other Than Garmin)

And if you get a deal on a Garmin tray and install kit, you have options.
 
My way of solving

ChiefPilot said:
I did this (except with a KLN-89B) and have been exceedingly happy with it. It works great for approaches, and they're common enough that I wouldn't get it repaired - I'd just buy another replacement for $600 off eBay.
Click to expand...

I did similar.. with a GX60 for the Approach certified GPS and a VAL NAV2000 for ILS/LOC. Both will be tied to my Dynon D100 for the HSI.

Also have the 496 for weather and traffic.

Should get me through a cloud or two until I have a bunch to spend on redoing the panel
 
The -430W is/was a great GPS navigator, but I wouldn't recommend you purchase and install one in your aircraft now. It has been discontinued and will only get more expensive down the road. The GTN-650 is the way to go, even thought it is more expensive, you WILL realize the benefit long term.
 
rolivi said:
I did similar.. with a GX60 for the Approach certified GPS and a VAL NAV2000 for ILS/LOC. Both will be tied to my Dynon D100 for the HSI.

Also have the 496 for weather and traffic.

Should get me through a cloud or two until I have a bunch to spend on redoing the panel
Click to expand...

How are you getting traffic onto the 496? I assume weather is coming from XM.

Larry
 
Do yourself a favor. Go get some hands on time with a 430 and a 650.
The 430 is a fantastically capable box but to say the user interface leaves something to be desired is the understatement of the century.

I am pretty much in the same place. Gotta start making avionics decisions.
 
Forgot to mention a box

lr172 said:
How are you getting traffic onto the 496? I assume weather is coming from XM.

Larry
Click to expand...

I've also have a GDL 39 for ADS-B in. That's my weather and traffic source. XM is music only, need to justify the WX subscription to myself. The GDL does it nicely blue tooth to my iPad.
 
Last edited:
TCONROY said:
The -430W is/was a great GPS navigator, but I wouldn't recommend you purchase and install one in your aircraft now. It has been discontinued and will only get more expensive down the road. The GTN-650 is the way to go, even thought it is more expensive, you WILL realize the benefit long term.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping that by the time I'm ready to equip for IFR there will be a basic GPS-only unit available (i.e. a -400W replacement), since with a modern EFIS package like Skyview or G3X we don't really need the traffic/weather/obstacles all crammed onto one little screen. But, I realize that the market for the bigger, fancier all-in-one units with traffic, weather, etc. is primarily older certified airplanes trying to get the biggest bang for the dollar. And the market for the simpler units probably isn't big enough to spread the certification costs over--they'll probably wind up just as expensive as the fancy units.

GRT was rumored to be working on such a unit, but no word of progress...
 
N941WR said:
Has anyone tried the Avidyne?

It is supposed to be a slide in replacement for the Garmin.
Click to expand...

Heads up - looks like the Avidyne IFD540 GPS unit (and other models?) have an AD that just came out.

LINK TO AD

This emergency AD was prompted by reports of Avidyne IFDs displaying incorrect course deviation indication information during GPS approaches (incorrect display of lateral deviations). This condition occurs when the airplane is flying in certain approaches, the leg to the Final Approach Fix (FAF) is active, and the leg to the FAF is not aligned with the final approach course (i.e., an angled entry to the FAF). The software of the Avidyne IFDs as referenced above will produce lateral deviations to the final approach course as soon as the leg to the FAF becomes active. Therefore when the leg does not align with the final approach course, the CDI will show a deviation when, in fact, the aircraft is on the proper course for the active leg. This could result in the pilot making flight decisions that put the aircraft in unsafe flight conditions, flying into airspace that was, by the GPS approach design, to be avoided (terrain, obstacle, traffic, restricted).​
 
NTex said:
Heads up - looks like the Avidyne IFD540 GPS unit (and other models?) have an AD that just came out.

LINK TO AD

This emergency AD was prompted by reports of Avidyne IFDs displaying incorrect course deviation indication information during GPS approaches (incorrect display of lateral deviations). This condition occurs when the airplane is flying in certain approaches, the leg to the Final Approach Fix (FAF) is active, and the leg to the FAF is not aligned with the final approach course (i.e., an angled entry to the FAF). The software of the Avidyne IFDs as referenced above will produce lateral deviations to the final approach course as soon as the leg to the FAF becomes active. Therefore when the leg does not align with the final approach course, the CDI will show a deviation when, in fact, the aircraft is on the proper course for the active leg. This could result in the pilot making flight decisions that put the aircraft in unsafe flight conditions, flying into airspace that was, by the GPS approach design, to be avoided (terrain, obstacle, traffic, restricted).​
Click to expand...

Apparently Avidyne has a software fix for this already and has been waiting quite a while for the FAA to approve it (well before the AD was put out).
 
xblueh2o said:
Do yourself a favor. Go get some hands on time with a 430 and a 650.
The 430 is a fantastically capable box but to say the user interface leaves something to be desired is the understatement of the century.
Click to expand...

I've got quite a bit of time using KLN 89/94s, 400/430/530(w) and recently a "sexy" new GTN-750.

Yes, the new GTNs are an improvement over the 430/530 series, but not the same drastic improvement over the old KLN stuff. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the KLN GPSs, and they were great in their time. Keep in mind that radio ranges and the LORAN-C were also great in their time. The 430 and 650 both have features like the colour moving map and terrain awareness, it's a no brainer in my mind compared to a KLN.

I find the 430/530 is much easier to use in turbulence. Grab the knob and your hand won't fall off. Not pushing the wrong buttons near as often. They are fantastically capable units, particularly the WAAS models. However they're not quite as intuitive as the 650/750. Need more practice to stay proficient using that GPS.

If it was my plane, I wouldn't consider anything less than the 430w series for busting through that "obnoxious overcast" at 1000agl. ILS-like performance all the way down to minimums. Saves all the annoying step-downs and greatly reduced likelihood of CFIT on approach.
 
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