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SB 01-31-14 Completed.

RV8iator

Well Known Member
Benefactor
Well, it's done. Jon Thocker at Redlne cmpleted this SB today.

I didn't build my plane, but I've put two engines on it, swapped frm FP to CS prop, rewired the whole plane, upgraded from steam to glass, installed new radios, etc. I'm not afraid to jump in and do things.

I WOULDNT TOUCH THIS PROJECT BY MYSELF WITH A TEN FOOT POLE!

It's just a pretty big project and IF you have the tools and the metal skills you can do it. I don't.

My recommendation for what it's worth Is to let someone with the skill do it. Lots of ways to mess something up.

It looks extremely strong back there now. Like a Navion tail..
 
Well, it's done. Jon Thocker at Redlne cmpleted this SB today.

I didn't build my plane, but I've put two engines on it, swapped frm FP to CS prop, rewired the whole plane, upgraded from steam to glass, installed new radios, etc. I'm not afraid to jump in and do things.

I WOULDNT TOUCH THIS PROJECT BY MYSELF WITH A TEN FOOT POLE!

It's just a pretty big project and IF you have the tools and the metal skills you can do it. I don't.

My recommendation for what it's worth Is to let someone with the skill do it. Lots of ways to mess something up.

It looks extremely strong back there now. Like a Navion tail..

You don't need a ten foot pole, just a 12 in drill bit :D and a couple other things. If you built one of these you you have probably drilled out a few rivets, or a lot more than a few like me, not that hard a job. Walt and Scott have a couple threads on drilling out rivets. Now quit scaring the nice folks out there:)
 
Even a gal can do it...

Yes, I'm working on the SB for the HS now... stopped only by the ice & snow. I used a burr on a dremel and just took the heads off the rivets on the main rib flange that gets cut off anyway. I just could not get a drill bit square on them. I haven't gotten to the rivets up inside yet...:eek: but I suppose the right angle drill should work!
 
Photos of project part 1

I'm not trying to scare anyone here. Just my observations as someone that did not build my plane, but have a lot of experience working on it.

OK,

We started by removing the tail feathers. Total time with 2 people working on it was just a bit over an hour.

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Next, the rivets holding the forward and rear ribs were removed and out came the ribs

12524539054_e3d9c481dc_c.jpg


Next, the rivets in the spar web holding the large angles came out. This was pretty straight forward since they had the manufactured head on the aft side of the spar. This is more difficult and time consuming if the manufactured heads are on the forward side of the spar.

12524172493_c795d83574_c.jpg


Angles removed, dressed and cut as per SB.

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Kit parts and ready to begin installation.

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Fitting and drilling of the spar doublers. Proper tools once again make this easier.

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Attach angles prefitting. Also, the doublers have to be positions to line up the prebent angle, check to make sure there's adequate spacing for the vertical stab attach points. Not hard but time consuming.

12524183913_8bcf8ac72a_c.jpg


Some assembly required..:) Badger and Bruce made this cradle to hold the stab upright so one person could work without having a second person always hold the stab. This was a really important thing to have as it steadied the stab and held if firmly in place while drilling and riveting.

12524185113_ea6d9bdbd2_c.jpg


continued in part 2 of this post..
 
Part 2 of the SB

Doublers riveted in, skin trimmed and rounded, forward edge of rear rib trimmed and doubling angle made and drilled, all being fitted for riveting.

12524555024_23bdb204e1_c.jpg


Rear ribs riveted in now installing forward ribs. Note how robust the fix looks compared to the original.

12524189173_48c2b732f8_c.jpg


Fitting it all back together. This started to process of reinstalling everything. Trim cables if you have manual trim as I do, spaces for HS, etc. Again not hard, just tedious getting all the nuts and bolts back in and torqued, push rods etc.

12524191943_fb9e5e11af_c.jpg


Almost back where we started.

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Once again, I'm not trying to scare anyone, or claim to know alot about this.

It took slightly over 20 man hours to do this. Jon certainly has the knowledge and skills to make this look simple. Still, with all the right tools and knowledge it took him 20 hours to do.

That's the whole point of my opening post.
 
Thanks for posting the detailed steps with pictures, Widget. Makes it a lot easier to understand just what to expect. After reading through the SB, I had guessed it would take me about 40 hours on the -6 I bought last fall - if I have to make the repair. Probably about right, since I lack the skills and experience of someone like Jon. All in all, not too bad.
 
Yes, I'm working on the SB for the HS now... stopped only by the ice & snow. I used a burr on a dremel and just took the heads off the rivets on the main rib flange that gets cut off anyway. I just could not get a drill bit square on them. I haven't gotten to the rivets up inside yet...:eek: but I suppose the right angle drill should work!


Why not just step outside and get burred it's plenty cold enough.
 
Edge distance looks questionable in a few areas. Why is that? Looks like you trimmed your plates pretty close to the machine head? Almost hanging over. Is this for rudder clearance? I plan to comply with the kit as mine has arrived however this doesn't look proper!
 
:D:D:D And I'm guessing about 10 woman hours :D:D:D

That makes sense. In my experience, if a woman says she'll be ready in an hour, it usually takes 4, so, 1 woman hour must equal 4 man hours. Math checks out! :eek:

Sorry, major thread drift....
 
Edge distance looks questionable in a few areas. Why is that? Looks like you trimmed your plates pretty close to the machine head? Almost hanging over. Is this for rudder clearance? I plan to comply with the kit as mine has arrived however this doesn't look proper!

I'll let Jon jump in here if he will, but yes, the doublers were drilled and then we test fitted the VS and had to trim the edge of the doublers to allow room for the VS attachment. Look at the photo here of the kit and you'll see how close the predrilled holes in the doubler plate are to the edge and that's what you have to work with. There is a note that says you trim 1/16 inch off the edge.
 
I'll let Jon jump in here if he will, but yes, the doublers were drilled and then we test fitted the VS and had to trim the edge of the doublers to allow room for the VS attachment. Look at the photo here of the kit and you'll see how close the predrilled holes in the doubler plate are to the edge and that's what you have to work with. There is a note that says you trim 1/16 inch off the edge.

That puzzles me as why to pre-punch those holes so close to the edge if they are expecting you to trim the piece? I wonder if there was any room on the VS attached piece to trim and allow the fit, or possibly split the trimming between the two pieces.

Great job and thanks for posting the pix.
 
That's funny!

That makes sense. In my experience, if a woman says she'll be ready in an hour, it usually takes 4, so, 1 woman hour must equal 4 man hours. Math checks out!

Love it! :D Well, if the shoe fits, wear it!

Continuing the major thread drift here...:p
 
That puzzles me as why to pre-punch those holes so close to the edge if they are expecting you to trim the piece? I wonder if there was any room on the VS attached piece to trim and allow the fit, or possibly split the trimming between the two pieces.

Great job and thanks for posting the pix.

I did this part today and was concerned about the VS attach plate fitting between the doublers.

What I did was make a 1/8" thick template of the VS attach plate, matched drilled it and then clecoed it to the HS forward spar where it gets bolted in. The VS attach plate is 3.75" wide, I made it just smidgen wider to make sure there would be adequate space for it to bolt in. The doubler plates were then placed against this template, checked for alignment and bend conformity, they appeared to fit well without trimming. No issue with edge distance.

I have not matched drilled the inside holes yet, should get to that tomorrow. With all the rivets going into this mod, a couple on the edge won't matter if the plates are trimmed.

This SB is shaping up to make the HS front spar like the proverbial brick outhouse. :)

 
I did this part today and was concerned about the VS attach plate fitting between the doublers.

What I did was make a 1/8" thick template of the VS attach plate, matched drilled it and then clecoed it to the HS forward spar where it gets bolted in. The VS attach plate is 3.75" wide, I made it just smidgen wider to make sure there would be adequate space for it to bolt in. The doubler plates were then placed against this template, checked for alignment and bend conformity, they appeared to fit well without trimming. No issue with edge distance.

I have not matched drilled the inside holes yet, should get to that tomorrow. With all the rivets going into this mod, a couple on the edge won't matter if the plates are trimmed.

This SB is shaping up to make the HS front spar like the proverbial brick outhouse. :)


Great Job. Glad to see there is enough real estate for proper edge distance.
 
Edge distance looks questionable in a few areas. Why is that? Looks like you trimmed your plates pretty close to the machine head? Almost hanging over. Is this for rudder clearance? I plan to comply with the kit as mine has arrived however this doesn't look proper!

Yes, the edge distance is less than spec.
The SB allows for up to a 16th inch to be trimmed from the doubler there. We needed it, plus we needed to trim the vertical stab tongue also to allow it to fit.
We were at a disadvantage from the original builder making the Vert stab tongue wider than spec.
 
Jon,

Been thinking over night....

Match drilling the inside 16 holes is a problem, they are close to the skin and it is difficult to get the 90? angle drill in position for a straight hole from front to rear.

Both parts are matched drilled in the center open area, why not remove them from the shear web, cleco them together and match drill those 16 inside holes with a drill press.

The missing element doing it out of the HS is the shear web between the parts. Big deal, it already has those 16 holes.

Is there a down side I am not seeing?
 
seems to me it would be easy to mark the edges of the VS bracket onto the spar web before disassembly then you could slide the doubler plates outboard as required (while still matching the bend). This would minimize the need to trim the ends of the doubler plates while ensuring the VS bracket will fit upon reassembly

Good idea??
 
seems to me it would be easy to mark the edges of the VS bracket onto the spar web before disassembly then you could slide the doubler plates outboard as required (while still matching the bend). This would minimize the need to trim the ends of the doubler plates while ensuring the VS bracket will fit upon reassembly

Good idea??

I agree, in hindsight it's a great idea. Hopefully a lot of folks will learn as this goes forward.
 
Thasnks and questions

Thank you, Widget, David, Jon, and Gary! Your posts and photos have given me the courage to go ahead with the bulletin. I have two questions/comments:

1. How did Jon shape the cradles for the horizontal tail? Did he use the inboard ribs as templates after they were removed? The fit seems perfect!

2. David, your idea of match drilling the outboard rivet holes on the doubler with a drill press seems to be the solution to the problem that has been keeping me awake at night. It would appear that the angles and doubler should be separated by an .032" spacer strip (to simulate the forward spar)to be sure that the outboard five holes on each tab are correctly aligned. Without the 0.032" spacer, the outboard five holes would not be aligned because of the 6 degree bend. (The doubler holes would be slightly inboard of the correct position.)

Does anyone see what I might be missing here? if not, it will greatly simplify the project for me. I have been dreading the possibility of damaging the holes by using an angle drill where it is difficult to align.

Again, thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread! And a special thanks to Doug for making Van's Airforce such a valuable resource.
 
Thank you, Widget, David, Jon, and Gary! Your posts and photos have given me the courage to go ahead with the bulletin. I have two questions/comments:

1. How did Jon shape the cradles for the horizontal tail? Did he use the inboard ribs as templates after they were removed? The fit seems perfect!



They cut a piece of OSB, or whatever material you want to make the cradle out of, and held it against the HS where the forward rib was removed and traced that line, then extended it back just a few inches to give it a longer run to brace the HS up with. Then, when the cardboard was stapled in it made it narrow enough to account for the taper in the HS.

Make sure to make the ends wide enough to give it good stability when you stand it up.
 
Thanks!

Thanks, Widget! I did not realize how simple it was. I'm on the way to the Aviation section of Home Depot to get the materials. Now if Dave will give his thoughts on drilling the outboard five holes on each doubler on the drill press, I can get started.
 
Thanks, Widget! I did not realize how simple it was. I'm on the way to the Aviation section of Home Depot to get the materials. Now if Dave will give his thoughts on drilling the outboard five holes on each doubler on the drill press, I can get started.

Craig, I will have a report for you by tomorrow evening, the parts are out and for better or worse I am drilling. :)
 
It worked....

A technique of match drilling the doublers to the angle brackets in the centr open area of the HS, removing same from the shear web and clecoing together for the purpose of match drilling the doublers to the interior angle holes with a drill press worked for me.

Everything clecoed together fine in the HS last evening. The parts were then removed one more time for deburring, clean up and prime over night. Will get to final riveting later today and tomorrow.
 
Is there anyone in the Atlanta area willing to do this mod?

Tracy, I might be able to help you out in a couple of weeks. I have an operation on the South Side of Atlanta. Baselegaviation.com.

Vic
404-307-5133
 
Nice work Widget.....good thing you decided not to wear your NEW jacket for the photos......you never would have got any work done at all
 
Congratulations David

David,
Thanks for posting the success in match drilling of the angles. Did you use a .032" spacer strip to simulate the spar, or did upon find it unnecessary?

Tomorrow the service bulletin oddesy begins for N5678C!
 
Nice work Widget.....good thing you decided not to wear your NEW jacket for the photos......you never would have got any work done at all

It's soooo toasty and cool at the same time..slinky keeps asking when my next Spitfire mission is.
 
David,
Thanks for posting the success in match drilling of the angles. Did you use a .032" spacer strip to simulate the spar, or did upon find it unnecessary?

Tomorrow the service bulletin oddesy begins for N5678C!

A piece of .020 was handy, it probably was not necessary.
 
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