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If you could tell a newbie builder, what would it be!

ron sterba

Well Known Member
I would tell a new builder to install plate nuts under the baggage floor instead of RIVETS. When plans for the RV9 emerged there was not the vast array of electronics as of today market.:)

I'm sticking to my word on this one. ,,,,,yes ALL rivets drilled out in bag floors.

Ron in Oregon
 
  1. Don't stray too far from the plans. The further you go, the longer it'll take.
  2. Try not to refactor things. IE, redoing things for a better option. If I would have determined the final option on many things, it would have saved a bunch of time. Example: I installed standard brake lines and Grove parts. Then redid everything with steel braided lines/Beringer setup.
  3. Read ahead... Like the entire manual. There are numerous areas I had to undo things that I should have just not done. One example was installing the doubler for the Facet carburated RV fuel pump. I knew I was going injected and didn't realize at the time that the Facet pump was for a carburated engine.
  4. Any structure that has piano hinge riveted to 2 sheets of aluminum should have the piano hinge machine countersunk. (Flap hinges)
 
1st - Stick to the plans! Every time you change something it never ends there and it will drive changes later for what you have done.
2nd - DO NOT buy your avionics until you know you are getting really close to needing them. Avionics are changing at warp speed and nothing is worse than having a first flight with old avionics if your goal was to have a the newest stuff.
 
2nd - DO NOT buy your avionics until you know you are getting really close to needing them. Avionics are changing at warp speed and nothing is worse than having a first flight with old avionics if your goal was to have a the newest stuff.

Amen and amen!
 
If you don't have the proper tool for the task at hand, don't make something work,stop and beg, bower, or buy the correct tool. If you don't, you will bugger up the part you have spent 10 hours working on and then order a replacement part AND the tool.
 
Since I work with new builders quite a bit, this is personal, and a great question! First, understand what the plans are trying to tell you. That may mean assembling things several times with clecos, or it might mean asking someone else to figure something out. Second, if it doesn't line up right, chances are you have something assembled wrong. Since we work on RV-12s, and the plans are pretty complete, the answer to almost every question is, "Read the instructions." Perhaps it should be, "Understand the instructions." I am a big believer in trial assembly of whole components, even when it doesn't seem important.

Bob
 
Advise

Prime and go with a nose wheel. There. That should get the flames going.:D

Actually, you got good advise already.
I would add...
1. Pound on scrap, build the practice kits then drill them all apart and do it again.
Drilling rivets is as important a skill as pounding them.
2. When you get tired. Quit immediately. Mistakes inevitably follow.
 
Van's philosophy: Make it work. This isn't hard.

Many of us (myself included, without a doubt) waste a LOT of time looking for the perfect tool, the perfect method, etc., when "just doing it" will deliver an indistinguishable result 10x sooner.
 
I made some pretty significant mistakes when I thought I had some assembly perfected and sped up the process. Don't speed up. keep thinking.
Like Larry said, stop when you get tired. I have a few 'smiley rivets' caused be me being impatient. One is on the wing leading edge of course,
 
The hardest part....

...is writing those big checks. Make sure you have the cash flow to finish.
 
It's my understanding the record is 90 days start to run up on a RV9a,,,,,whoa! I would like to have someone verify that for me and was hear sake! The builder had build 5 RVs prior.

#1. I would go with one inch corigated wire tubing inside the wings to the tips.
#2. Figure which pitot,,,,heated or non,,,,,then put in your tubing,either one or two tubes. I used separate bushing/ s. You'll have heavy 12 gauge wires to run in your corigated tubing.
#3. Like mention above avionics last.
#4. 3 bladed prop by Catto. Nothing but GOOD that I have ever heard.
#5. Mount a oil cooler on the firewall, lower left, there's a Vans kit for it.
I'm sure I'll think of more when I'm at the hangar today.
 
Don't start building until you have a clean, organized place to build that is reasonably comfortable year round. Insulate, heat if you have to, install more lights than you think you need, paint the floor, make sure you can work year round without dripping sweat or needing a heavy coat.

I built my fuse center section last winter when it was bloody cold out there. I can point out all the flaws and nearly every one is the result of spring while I was freezing my tookus off in spite of having both heaters going.

I'll be insulating the garage walls next week so I don't screw up more stuff this winter.
 
Dont drill your finger when holding parts - it hurts and you drop stuff. Get a good vise or clamp set. I didn't buy a vise until I had finished the empennage and was trying to flatten out the 1/4 thick flap plates for the wings; I wish I had one from the start. I put aluminum angles in to protect the parts from the steel jaws of the vise.
 
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OK at the hangar today. Got some more advise for NEWBIES.........

#1 DON'T install a plastic bushing that you cannot get a RING terminal or spade terminal through the opening of the plastic bushing.

#2 If you plan to run several wires in a wire run and through a plastic bushing make sure you can get a ring/spade terminal through the bushing.

#3 Just because the drilled hole by Vans is done already doesn't mean it can't be enlarged for a BIGGER Bushing.

#4 If you want a hole for a plastic bushing it may require you to call Vans,

#5 Referred to #4,,,,,,,,Yes I called Vans,but distances from edges,seams and ribs and other hole locations are key factors in drilling addition holes. You NEVER want to weaken a structure.

#5a Home Building Codes stress locations for drilling holes in floor joists for plumbing and electrical. You NEVER want to JEOPARDIZE a structures uniformity.


Ron in Oregon, Sure I'll have more after going to the hangar tomorrow!
 
If you buy, expect rework. My RV-9a had a Garmin G3X "professionally" installed, and we redid 30% of the wires because of poor workmanship or plain old errors. A prebuy inspection won't necessarily find all the problems, nor will an annual. Sometimes you find errors only on disassembly.

I've bought four flying RVs in my career, and if there were letter grades, they'd get A+, A, C, and D. All had good prebuys.

Ed
 
1. Build at home not the airport, it will go much faster and keep you close to the wife which will buy you even more build time.

2. Order the entire kit, it will save you time.

3. Wait till near the end to make the avionics decision, the market continues to change fast.

4. Work life balance, make sure you take care of the wife.

5. Research any mods you want from your RV buddies in advance but try and stick to the plans.

6. It may be true that you can buy the occasional RV cheaper than building but I loved the building process, it also gave me great pride to know I built it myself and I always liked knowing what every rivet looked like.
 
1. Build at home not the airport, it will go much faster and keep you close to the wife which will buy you even more build time.



4. Work life balance, make sure you take care of the wife.

.

Yep...down South there's an old adage: "If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy." :)

Best,
 
Make sure you have the time to finish the plane.
Make sure you can devote time everyday, even if its something small.
Make sure you dont have to drive an hour to get to the project. It just eats time, AND motivation.
Make sure you have cash flow to put into the plane, and make an account for it.

Gee---If I were to listen to my own advise, I'd be done with the fuselage.
Tom
 
1st - Stick to the plans! Every time you change something it never ends there and it will drive changes later for what you have done.
2nd - DO NOT buy your avionics until you know you are getting really close to needing them. Avionics are changing at warp speed and nothing is worse than having a first flight with old avionics if your goal was to have a the newest stuff.

I differ on the opinion to wait for avionics for a couple of reasons. I know I am in the minority but here are my reasons.

1) Cash Flow. It is easy to save money by designing a panel that uses current or one revision back electronics. The purchases can be spread out as the bank account will allow. (while saving for the engine)

2) Technical Function. The selection of ANY experimental electronics (new or old) will be better than you are likely to see in common rentals. Yes, you may drool at the bleeding edge stuff that others have. That never changes even if you wait on buying electronics late. The builder that is behind you will get better electronics. So what. The stuff you have is awesome.

3) Building. With the panel complete before engine hanging, the firewall penetrations can be complete and wires hanging so the engine installation is simply that, installation and hook up. No fabrication in the tight area behind the motor.

4) Engine Idle Time. Doing the engine before the panel increases the time that the motor sits around gathering rust.
 
#1. Don't leave until you have driven 10 rivets a day. #2. Wear a ball cap anytime you are close enough tp see your project. Dan
 
Do something, anything, every day. Every day.

The tortoise wins the race and makes the fewest mistakes.
 
Take your wife to ?

Local Fly-in, Oshkosh, Sun and Fun. Ask is she wants to sit behind you or next to you, what color she likes, what interior she wants. I do not think that mine understood that thousands of these time machines have been built and finished in peoples garages, basements, and barns?.
Mine had been to local events, and Sun and Fun, but it was not until Oshkosh that it clicked and she understood it was truly a time machine?.
As an added bonus, she is really good at removing plastic film around rivet holes, drilling and deburring. Building is much faster these days.
Oh, and when she makes her first mistake, smile and say I did one like that, then go order a new part and SMILE!!! :D
And I noticed your interests on you profile page read:
"Interests: remodeling my wifes way!"
So I know I know you have been well trained.
 
Motivation and Practice

1. Keep a photo of the finished RV in clear view in your shop for motivation.

2. Practice shooting and removing rivets. The real trick to building is fixing mistakes. Learn how to remove bad rivets efficiently and without damaging the parts.

3. Good quality tools do make a difference in your build experience.

4. When something doesn't come out right, ONAD (Outcome Not As Desired), stop what you are doing and take a time out. Things always look better if you walk away and come back later.

5. There is no such thing as a stupid question. Don't be afraid to ask. "Use the Forum Luke"-Star Wars reference for those who didn't get it.

6. Measure three times, drill once.

7. Know where the part behind the part your are drilling is so that there is no doubt where the hole will come out in the part you can't see.

8. Enjoy the journey-you can do it
 
7. Know where the part behind the part your are drilling is so that there is no doubt where the hole will come out in the part you can't see.

This is a biggee, I think. I have replaced a few parts due to edge distance issues, after following the plans exactly. Always double check where a hole will be on all parts involved, and adjust as needed for edge distance.

Chris
 
A) Plan what you're gonna do before you get to the workshop. Hit the ground running when you arrive.

B) Avoid having "non-builder" visitors (this is why it is better to not work in the hangar). Stop work when there are visitors present. They can distract you and more mistakes are made when they are there.

C) 2-2.5 hour work sessions generally allows a task to get completed and cleaned up.

D) Always have two genre's of work going on at the same time. That way if you hit a snag, need a part, tool, advice etc, you can finish your shop time working on the other genre. You don't want to stop work for a week before you can get started again. Do something everyday, with only a few exceptions.

E) Read VAF everyday.

Bevan
 
Hilite Drawings

Many good suggestions. When i first started building it seemed so intimidating. ONe thing that helped me alot was to sit down with the plans and take a Hi liter and mark out all parts that I would be working on and also make arrows to the appropriate " Section x-x" Really helped so much.
 
No. 1 thing

1. Don't stop flying during the time you are building. You need to maintain your flying skills at the highest level possible.
 
Tips

This really is a great question, your getting advise from thousands of hours of experience, what a great resource this is. One thing I learned from working on war birds after I built my 4 is to tighten or torque everything like your going to fly it, unless you are sure it will have to come apart again so it can fly. This more applies to fire wall forward and controls, fuel and oil systems. Hopefully you have an experienced builder come by once in a while and check on things. Don't put the little things off for later, write down what you are doing when you stop for a day or two or more so when you get back to it you can pickup where you left off. Keep a list of things you want to do or re-do at a later date, and when you think of something write it on the list. You will be surprised of all the things you do when you look at the list. This has been said before but do stop when your tired or your head just isn't in it, just like flying. Some say it's cheaper to buy, I agree to a point, but the educational spin offs are worth a lot, everything you do you will do better and have a better understanding of how things work.
?Nothing better than bringing in the herd?

RT
 
As RT stated above, write ideas or tasks down on paper then for me it was a MAGNET on the door out.
#1. If you make any size able bracket like 2-2 1/2" long drill litning holes the size of a bushing, so you can pop it in at a later date.
#2. Unibits, I bet I have 10 at least,some with 8 size holes and 5 size holes. You'll use them for deburring holes.
#3. Oops rivets. Head is 3/32s head but a 1/8" or 4/32s shaft. You'll need these when you countersink and elongated is the result or after you drilled a rivet out the hole is a bit larger than you started with.
#4 magnet on a telescoping rod.
#5 flexible mirror On a telescoping rod.
#6. 3/32" punch and a 1/8" punch.
#7. 3/32" dimple dies that use a nail and a pull rivet gun.
#8. Smaller air hose and fittings, 8-10 feet long from Vendors on the vansairforce website. This usually is placed at the end of your main air hose. Easier to move in close quarters.
#9 tight finger work gloves for holding aluminum while drilling
#10 Fly cutter,like a drill you have never seen before. Drills holes 1" to say 3 1/2" holes in sheet aluminum .
#11. Box of nitrile food handling type gloves. Keep hands clean When a date is scheduled that evening.
#12. 6" ruler in both metric and inch. You metric guys have it easy. I like counting to 100.
#13 bendable ruler,,for me it was a 18" from the office supply store.
#14 Swival head flashlight. I like the Nextec by Sears,lite weight quick to charge.buy it with a drill combo, good value.
#15 the RV9A builder plans.for me 5 different Bright colored magic markers. I colored the the part I was building on the builder plan.youll get lost going back and forth to the black on white paper,.i usually colored all my nuts and bolts orange. Your imagination is the rest of the story.

Ron in Oregon RV9a.
 
transparent ruler

....

#13 bendable ruler,,for me it was a 18" from the office supply store.

....

If you get the C-thru brand if can be used for drawing reference lines parallel to edges and has a useful centering scale.

seethruruler18.jpg


From office/craft/art supply places.
 
Don't Stop for Visitors

Sooner or later the project ends up at the airport for final assembly. Down the road, you'll be doing repairs, changes, and inspections, etc. Learn to keep working when visitors arrive. Pick a couple of key phrases that work for you, such as 1. Please get out of my light. 2. Don't distract me. 3. Not trying to be rude, but I've got to keep working.
Your friends, especially fellow builders, will understand. The uninformed will eventually figure out that you're on a mission.
Failure to take this approach will increase work/build time exponentially - I think this is actually one of the laws of physics.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
Pick the easiest "N" number

Every time I use a self serve pump I wish I had chosen an N number that required fewer keystrokes. For numbers you can use the key pad, but those stupid letters, multiple arrow presses to move along the alphabet back and forth.
 
Every time I use a self serve pump I wish I had chosen an N number that required fewer keystrokes. For numbers you can use the key pad, but those stupid letters, multiple arrow presses to move along the alphabet back and forth.

I don't mean to derail this thread, but why do you have to enter your N number to get Av Fuel? I don't enter my license plate number to fill up my car. I may or may not just enter the easiest/shortest combo I can think of rather than my real N number.
 
I make one up. ALWAYS.


I don't mean to derail this thread, but why do you have to enter your N number to get Av Fuel? I don't enter my license plate number to fill up my car. I may or may not just enter the easiest/shortest combo I can think of rather than my real N number.
 
I don't mean to derail this thread, but why do you have to enter your N number to get Av Fuel? I don't enter my license plate number to fill up my car. I may or may not just enter the easiest/shortest combo I can think of rather than my real N number.

I think it is for traceability purposes in case a fuel farm sample indicates possible contamination or the wrong type of fuel was accidentally put in the tanks. If they don't know who bought fuel then they have no idea of who to contact if a problem is found.
 
I think it is for traceability purposes in case a fuel farm sample indicates possible contamination or the wrong type of fuel was accidentally put in the tanks. If they don't know who bought fuel then they have no idea of who to contact if a problem is found.

Bingo. Think back several years ago when Chevron had their fuel mix up. That is (in part) how they determined who was eligible for compensation. There was more to it than that but having a receipt with a tail number was huge.
 
I don't mean to derail this thread, but why do you have to enter your N number to get Av Fuel? I don't enter my license plate number to fill up my car. I may or may not just enter the easiest/shortest combo I can think of rather than my real N number.

I'd like to know why aircraft registrations are publicly accessible. I can't just go online and look up license plates; why should someone be able to look up my N number?
 
Bingo. Think back several years ago when Chevron had their fuel mix up. That is (in part) how they determined who was eligible for compensation. There was more to it than that but having a receipt with a tail number was huge.

I would think the credit card records would give them the required information for compensation. If you are a transit, you will know before the oil company does, unfortunately.
 
I'd like to know why aircraft registrations are publicly accessible. I can't just go online and look up license plates; why should someone be able to look up my N number?

I totally agree with this. I can't believe that the FAA still publishes personal information like this (particularly the home address).
 
I totally agree with this. I can't believe that the FAA still publishes personal information like this (particularly the home address).
It's the same for Amateur Radio licenses, and probably other Federal licensing databases as well. There's a big difference between public information and personal information. Stuff like my address and phone number is really public information. It's been in the phone book for decades, and for sale from various mailing list companies for even longer. I really don't care if they publish that. Personal information is a different story - SSN, account numbers, that sort of thing.

Back on topic for a moment, another piece of advice I would give a newbie is to join your local EAA chapter, go to meetings, get to know other builders and people who have completed homebuilts. Go to Oshkosh and spend a couple of days wandering through the RVs there. Try to get regular doses of inspiration by looking closely at other peoples' projects. Sometimes they will have done things you like, sometimes they will have done things you want to avoid. Every plane I look at is an inspiration -- one way or the other.
 
It's the same for Amateur Radio licenses, and probably other Federal licensing databases as well. There's a big difference between public information and personal information. Stuff like my address and phone number is really public information. It's been in the phone book for decades, and for sale from various mailing list companies for even longer. I really don't care if they publish that. Personal information is a different story - SSN, account numbers, that sort of thing.

I know this is a thread hijack, but...

You could "opt out" of the phone book (which is a private company) via unpublished or unlisted numbers. Mailing lists? Don't sign up in the first place (I know that's super-hard to avoid nowadays when even the grocery store has you home address).

But tying your N-number to your name and address and then making it available on-line is *exactly* the same as what the DMV does NOT do (publishing names and addresses of license plate holders). Know *why* they don't do that anymore? Because some nutjob got an actress' home address from DMV and killed her. (Not to mention that it allowed all sorts of other mischief, such as estranged spouses and abusive partners to find people).

I just don't think FAA (or other agencies) should be doing this. We've been lucky, as far as we know, so far.
 
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