CFI advice
Fact is you will not be able to do 100% of your training and check ride in the -8 in my opinion, unless you had dual instruments front and back. The good news is you might use the RV for 1/2 of the training?
You need 40 hours instrument (actual or simulated) towards the rating. Of the 40 hours only 15 hours need to be dual per the Regs. Which means you could practice under the hood (in VFR conditions) with a suitable safety pilot. In theory you could use the RV-8 for all solo practice. You also need 3 hours of logged dual instruction for check ride prep, but that can be part of the 15 hours total dual.
Advice #1) Regardless of the airplane I highly recommend you
use a simulator for part of your training. I find about 5-8 hours is a good return on efficency and quality. I believe up to 20 hours can be in a Sim but I have my doubts of how effective a basic non-motion GA Sim is for extensive training. Airline Sims are different, actual airplane cockpits, full motion and cost millions. The first time I few passengers in a plane was the first time I flew the actual plane. I did this on three different planes. Non-motion GA Sims are not that good, but serve purpose to a point. Really well worth it as a learning tool and money saver. The instructor must be skilled in giving sim training, it is a different than aircraft training. The instructor is key to making sim training meaningful. Nothing wrong with using different instructors.
Sims are very good for teaching procedures and partial panel work. When you shoot an approach you can just re-position outside the marker and do it again, saving time. For basic attitude instrument training also. It is great because you can talk about it, freeze it and plot the performance. However there is a limit and there is no substitute for the real thing (unless it is a $40 million dollar sim).
The standard "6 pack" has gone out the window with all the EFIS experimental panels hitting the market. Practicing instrument scan is part of flying in IMC. "Cross check-Interpret-Control" may not mean much to you now but it will. Bottom line is developing good habits 6-pack or not. An EFIS in theory is easier. You want to fly the airplane you will use for the check ride at least 3-6 hours just before taking the practical test.
Advice #2 -
Rent the spam can, a 172C would be a good choice. Dealing with prop and gear and learning to fly attitude instruments is a hand full. The Skyhawk will allow you to focus on flying and procedure. A C172 is slower and more stable than the RV-8.
So the suggest game plan (not in order) would be:
5-8 hours in sim (dual)
10-12 hours C172 (dual) *
15 hours in RV-8 (solo practice)**
2 hours check ride C172 (all you - use the force)
Total 40 hours plus 2 hours for check ride ***
(alt between sim, dual and solo practice)
* May be the instructor can fly some (VFR) dual with you in the RV-8. I could see may be giving 1 or 2 hours of DUAL in your RV-8, but that would be all I could call dual and log. After that it would be a glorified safety pilot and not an instructor. BTW actual IMC is the best training and you MUST have a CFII for actual. IMC dual will never happen in your RV-8.
For dual the instructor needs to see the instruments and you , what and how you are doing it, even help and demonstrate at some points. By watching the strudents head and hand movements I can see anc correct errors. Dual in a RV-8 would be difficult and poor at best. In the end the check ride will never happen in the RV-8.
**Solo practice is not just flying holes in the sky. It would be flying instrument practice patterns (written down) which involve a series of times maneuvers: climbs, climbs at specific VSI rates, level offs, descents, descents at specific rates, turns level (45,90,180,360 degrees), climbing turns with precise timed level off altitude and heading change (same for decent). In theory a CFII could look over your shoulder and call it Dual? I don't know how well that would work. You would have to find an instructor to do this. You can also practice instrument approaches, missed approaches and vectors under the hood with a safety pilot in VFR conditions. You will need to be comfortable with ATC communications and should not do this until your instructor has shown them to you. Also an IFR current safety pilot would be a nice thing to have, but never forget their job is watching for traffic and taking the plane from you if needed. Also basic VOR Nav review would be practiced (track, intercept, holding patterns entry/exit). Unusual attitudes can be done if your safety pilot knows what they are doing, but this could be hazardous in a RV if let loose too far. Also you need to challenge yourself and fly within acceptable limits. Keep track of your tolerance.
There is only so much solo you can do in your RV-8 but it will give you good practice and reduce the total time in the rental.
*** I say you only need 15 hours dual and 40 total, of which 3 hours must be flight prep for check ride. All this is up to the instructor and you. Some people take longer. Also some instructors may not be willing to do dual in the RV-8.
However I feel strongly that you don't need an instructor to baby-sit you for 40 hours. Solo practice is important and worthwhile. However proficiency is the bottom line and regardless of how much solo practice you do. When you fly Dual, you must consistently show the instructor that you have mastered the tasks before moving on. It is proficiency not hours, so don't let me miss lead you this will work for you or anyone, eveytime, depends on the individual.
Some CFII's think you must fly 40 hours with them just because...they this is the way they trained? Trust me, if you go up and work up a sweat under the hood and really work solo, it will pay off. Obviously a RV-8 will not translate to a C172 perfectly, but a good scan, control, organization, communications and procedures translate across all makes and models.
HOOD TIME: Don't Cheat. If you can see out the corner of your eyes you need to block this out with cardboard or something, as long as the safety pilots view is not compromised. The military had true hoods that where tents that cover the whole cockpit. When you fly into IMC you will not be able to cheat.
Training is an individual thing, but from my experience it is realistic goal. Flying one plane would be better but I am trying to figure a way to include the RV-8 in the program. If you fly the skyhawk proficiently per the PTS and you have 15 hours dual there is NO need for you to log more dual if you have 25 hours of solo hood work (post private pilot).
You need to log you solo and note the safety pilot?s name. He/she does not need to sign it or write their pilot number down, but they can if they want. Also note what you practice. There is no required solo items, but 25 hours of straight and level is not going to cut it.
How effective you use your RV-8 is up to you, but I doubt you will be able to take a check ride in it. Therefore 1/2 of your training will likely be in the plane you will take your check ride in, the rental bird.
Last, when I got my original inst ticket long ago, I did it with 15 hours dual in a rented C172 and the rest was in my plane (a Piper T-hawk) with a few friend safety pilots. I did a lot of solo work, may be 35-45 hours of patterns, holding patterns and a bunch of VOR/LOC approaches, which is all I could do in the Tommy Hawk. I got real comfortable under the hood. Also
talking to ATC, listening to ATC and understanding and memorizing the clearance while flying is good practice.
Later when I became an active CFII and was teaching, I paired my students up sometimes and got them to fly together for local dual, cross-country dual. They would also act as safety pilot for each other's solo practice. It worked real well. My students ended up with around 5 hours sim, 15 hours dual, 20 hours solo and 10-12 backseat hours observing another student in the plane.
Bottom line you must be proficient & safe. Some took longer. Others wanted or needed more hours of dual.
You know the RV-8 is fast and slippery and unusual attitudes in the clouds could get you past Vne fast, so an autopilot would be needed for real IMC in my opinion. On an Inst check ride you can use the autopilot for some of it, which is nice. Most C172's don't have an autopilot or is it needed, but the RV-8 does need it for single pilot IFR ops.
I flew IFR in my RV-4 with out an autopilot and it was not real fun. Trying to find approach plates, read them, set radios and write WX or clearance while hand flying can be a challenge in any plane with out an autopilot.
Advice #3 - Who teaches you should spend at least the first 5-8 hours dual teaching you basic attitude instrument flying.
You should not be shooting approaches in the first hand full of flights or 10 hours or so. May be a Demo or one approach coming back in at the end of every flight but not multi approaches. You need to have proficiency flying by instruments before doing procedures. The first flights should be short, 1 to 1.5 hours. Going too long on a lesson gets you over tired and is a waste of money and time. Many short flights are better than a few long flights. Until you get your CHOPS you need to keep the training flights short. At first 1 hour is a lot. The only long flights is the dual cross-country. Also you should work in solo practice between the dual sessions. This is how you get your Instrument ticket in minimum time with out getting a 100 of hours of dual.
Good Luck, email me if I can help (
[email protected]).
I am a CFII but live in North Carolina
George RV-4/7 CFI, CFII, MEI, ATP