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Monkworkz installation

N427EF

Well Known Member
Having read more than my fair share of alternator failures in particular PPower such as the one installed in my RV-10, I decided to invest in a back up solution.
https://monkworkz.com/?utm_source=kitplanes_magazine&utm_medium=article&utm_campaign=mz-30l
Other than reading and hearing of alternator failures, I have no reason to suspect imminent failure of any part of my electrical system. Nevertheless, I wanted to be pro active and prevent being stuck at an airport away from home such as a recent report of a hapless fellow pilot who was bogged down in Redding due to an alternator failure.

Installation: Straight forward, or so I thought....
You need a vacuum pump adapter for any engine driven alternator, be that Monkworkz or other choices.
When I ordered my engine, I dropped the vacuum drive adapter and this is where my installation progress stopped. Vacuum drive adapters are available on ebay along with a mix and (mix ups) of gears that go along with it. The adapter for a 540 and a 360 appear to be identical, albeit with different part numbers. The adapter and gear for the 540 are a touch longer than those for the 360. Ebay sellers will assure that either will fit in both engines. Well, not for me.
The adapter I chose is sold by B&C, they have one for a 360 and one for a 540.
The drive gear was out of stock everywhere and finding it involved multiple phone calls and waiting days for call backs. A salvage yard in Kansas finally came through with an "as removed" drive gear in excellent condition.
You also need longer studs to install a vacuum adapter, those are available for $25 a piece. There is a whole story about installing accessory studs, finding torque values, which side goes into the case, etc.

Up and running:
With all the parts installed I finally got a chance to test the new source of electrons. At this time, the unit is configured to be used as an alternate back up
generator by means of a switch, normally off and to be turned on in case of main alternator failure. Simple enough, the mini generator provides plenty of power to keep my panel lit up and battery recharged. In normal cruise I see about 26 amps drawn, almost at the limit of the Monkworkz's 30 amp maximum output. Turning the "old " strobe lights off reduces the draw to 19 amps. So far so good and only time will tell which of the two units will prove its longevity.
 

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... In normal cruise I see about 26 amps drawn, almost at the limit of the Monkworkz's 30 amp maximum output. Turning the "old " strobe lights off reduces the draw to 19 amps. So far so good and only time will tell which of the two units will prove its longevity.

Hi Ernst, thanks for the writeup - good to know about the need for the vacuum adapter - I would not have thought of that requirement.

You wrote that you use 19 amps in cruise w/o the strobes - just curious why so much? Do you have EFII or electric fuel pumps? Just curious.

I'm looking at this unit to replace my PP if it fails - it looks like it will save a lot of weight since it's so small, no brackets, pulleys, belts... My cruise load is about 14 with everything on including Andair backup fuel pump, and about 9 amps when running just on the engine-driven mechanical fuel pump.
 
I suggest for installing as a backup generator you leave the control switch always on. You will know if your primary alternator fails by the Monkworkz generator indication on your EFIS or whatever you are using.

Test the install from time to time by turning off the primary alternator.

Carl
 
Agree with Carl. Leave it on and in "standby". One of the coolest features of the MZ30 is that it requires no pilot action to engage. Set it up correctly and it just sits there, waiting to spring into action.

...like a superhero.

Also wondering about the need for $25 studs. Just go to McMaster Carr or the local hardware store?
 
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How much does it cost?
$995 currently plus delivery.
You wrote that you use 19 amps in cruise w/o the strobes
It is a 12 year old airplane, 2 Dynons, Garmin 696, radios, tx, autopilot, nav lights etc. I never thought my consumption of 25 to 30 amps was overly generous with 12 year old equipment. It is clear to me that, Nav, strobe and landing lights as well as 5 amps for the electric boost pump along with flap motor are the big consumers of electrons.
Set up is one mag and LSE ignition along with airflow performance fuel injection. Two batteries behind the baggage compartment.

As to setting up for stand by or on/off, I have not been able to decide and looking for some input.
My bus voltage sits around 14.3 and 14.4 volts. The Monkworkz's stand by (always on) mode is set for 14.2, seems a bit close to keep the back up generator on stand by as it might kick in and out unnecessarily when it is not needed. Clearly, I don't quite understand it.
I would prefer a hands off solution but not at the expense of lower bus voltage.

I found it difficult to pay $100 for a set of genuine Lycoming studs but could not get myself to trust something else, especially in light of the fact that my intent was to shore up a weak link (PPower alternator). I learned a lot about Lycoming studs, the threads are different on either side even though they are
1/4 x20 threads. One side causes a slight bit of interference when installing them into the accessory case. That is the flat side, the other side is rounded and will easily accept a nut, fyi.

The whole adapter set up amounted to a total of over $800, gear drive $450 used, housing $250 new, plus studs and a Lycoming washer to fit under the drive gear.
A used housing could have been had for less than $100 from ebay, I just could not positively verify that I was going to get the right part, same is true for the gear and only one was available on ebay that looked serviceable.
 
I bumped my primary bus voltage up a bit to give me a bit of headroom above the MZ30 kick in point. If your current 14.4 v is healthy, then you should not see many "saves" from the MZ30. And if it does jump on line, no big deal - just recycle the switch. I get this every once in a while after landing, but in cruise its Not an issue.
 
Vacuum Pump adapter???

Hi Ernst,

Thanks for the heads up on the vacuum pump adapter. I was shortly going to start on this installation and happen to be missing that adapter on my engine... This particular project just doubled in cost.

Cheers, Sean
 
+1.

You need a vacuum pump adapter for any engine driven alternator, be that Monkworkz or other choices.”

Thanks for your post Ernest. The vacuum pump adapter will add considerably to the cost of adding the Monkworkz.

I did not know. I may first spend my dollars on the removal of my current Hartzell/Plane Power Alternator and add the B&C belt driven Alternator.


Charlie


Hi Ernst,

Thanks for the heads up on the vacuum pump adapter. I was shortly going to start on this installation and happen to be missing that adapter on my engine... This particular project just doubled in cost.

Cheers, Sean
 
... and happen to be missing that adapter on my engine... This particular project just doubled in cost.

Cheers, Sean

Or ... go on a field trip around your local airport(s) and look for someone getting a panel upgrade. Most, if not all, panel upgrades are ditching the vacuum system and thus have no need for the drive gear and adapter pad. I recently did this and paid the gentleman $20 for this "junk".

An additional note on the Monkworkz generator that may come into play depending on each specific installation, is that there is a relatively large parasitic draw from the regulator (LED blink codes and I don't know what else exactly). So consider where the MZ30 taps into your system and be sure that the master switch removes power from the regulator (especially the EFII Bus Manager installations). The generator control switch does not perform this function.

I would refer folks to Monkworkz for additional details on this. He was very helpful in explaining this nuance.
 
I bumped my primary bus voltage up a bit to give me a bit of headroom above the MZ30 kick in point.
Is this possible with a PPower alternator? I thought all those parameters are set and not user changeable.

Clearly, the adapter assembly can be had for a lot less. Had I done some homework on the installation, I might have been able to get away with perhaps half the price or less. If you go for the belt driven alternator, you are replacing your main alternator and this thread is about installing a back up alternator on the vacuum pad.

I am not planing to replace my PP alternator as it has not given me any reason for concern other than the relentless trickle of PP alternator issues posted by others.
Mine has a cooling blast tube installed, same for the Monkworkz, magneto and mechanical fuel pump. I understand that the cooling blast tubes do not sit well with some for fear of reducing differential pressure where it is needed most.
However, my engine runs quite cool, generally CHTs around 350 or less in cooler months. Robbing a little air to keep electronics happy seems a small price to pay.

FYI: vacuum adapter parts seem to be much more available for the 4 cylinder 360 than the 540. Start looking if you are planning for a back up alternator.
 
My regulator is B&C and easily adjustable with a small screwdriver - I would "think" your PP would have the same feature.
 
Because external regulators are remote from the alternator and subject to temperature variations and coupled with various schemes to get voltage to the buss, one would need to tune the alt output to achieve the desired voltage at the battery. At the end of the day, alternator output does not equal battery input.

Is the PP regulator output fixed?

According to an online guide for the PP regulator:

With the engine running and the alternator switch turned on, using a small screwdriver, set the regulator’s voltage adjustment so that the buss voltage, as measured at the ENABLE terminal is the desired value. Refer to aircraft maintenance manual or battery manufacturer’s data for proper voltage setting.
 
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Knowledge expanded, thanks.

Because external regulators are remote from the alternator and subject to temperature variations and coupled with various schemes to get voltage to the buss, one would need to tune the alt output to achieve the desired voltage at the battery. At the end of the day, alternator output does not equal battery input.

Is the PP regulator output fixed?

According to an online guide for the PP regulator:

With the engine running and the alternator switch turned on, using a small screwdriver, set the regulator’s voltage adjustment so that the buss voltage, as measured at the ENABLE terminal is the desired value. Refer to aircraft maintenance manual or battery manufacturer’s data for proper voltage setting.
Fair enough. We throw around identifications for alternators like all Fords are alike. Most PP that are for experimental are the 60 amp EI60, internally regulated and not adjustable. I do see that the 70 amp is externally regulated, and adjustable. The OP mentioned the PP failures for alternators like his, and I can not remember a 70 amp failing. So - - "I . . assumed" he has a 60 amp.

Thanks, I learned something new about PP!!

BTW I am in the process of installing a MZ30 for the same reason as Ernst.
 
P/N - Studs???

Hi Ernst,

Would you happen to have a Part Number for the studs? I have an O-320 and my Illustrated Parts Catalog seems to be missing those.

Thanks in advance!

Cheers, Sean
 
SNIP…Most PP that are for experimental are the 60 amp EI60, internally regulated and not adjustable.SNIP

There is a simple way to bump up the output voltage of a PP or other fixed internally regulated alternators (as in standard automobile alternators). Install a diode in line with the alternator “sense” voltage line. The diode will have a fixed voltage drop so the regulator sees a lower sense voltage that yields an increased output voltage.

I suggest this be done with a good quality Schottky diode as standard silicon diodes have too much of a voltage drop. A Schottky diode will yield 0.3 - 0.4vdc increase in output voltage.

BUT - the Plane Power puts out ~14.2vdc out of the box. This output works just fine to add the Monkworkz generator configured in the standby mode. For auto part shore alternators however you may need to bump up the typical 13.8vdc output.

I suggest Allied Electronics as the place to get the Schottky diodes. They have different specs so experiment with a few - they are cheap.

Carl
 
Thanks for all the input

Would you happen to have a Part Number for the studs? I have an O-320
25C-21 Lycoming STUD-.250-20 X 2.63 LONG
These fit the 540 and might be a touch too long for your 320
Spruce has them.

60 amp EI60
This is the alternator installed in my -10. 700hrs, no issues.

Here is a response from Bill Judge of Monkworkz on my question regarding set up and how two alternators producing power might affect each other. I am leaning towards keeping the generator in its current state producing 14.6V and leaving it on at all times. Bus voltage is around 14.3 to 14.4 with either of the alternator/generator. I have yet to set up the active pin to my EI engine monitor.
From Monkworkz Bill Judge
For the enable switch, I would recommend keeping it on all the time provided you have a means to see when it is active, through the Active pin.

Running the gen and the alternator simultaneously has worked fine for everyone I know that has tried it. There is the possibility that the control loop for the alternator and the MZ regulator conflict with each other but this hasn't materialized in all the tests I've run and it has never been reported. I don't think this is a legit worry. And even if some sort of conflict were to occur the fear is that the voltage would oscillate and overvolt. If this happened the OV protection in the MZ regulator would take it off line and the alternator would be the only source until the voltage went below 13.7V.

If you've got the MZ regulator set for 14.2V then it's even less likely that you would have a conflict because normally the alternator will very likely support your bus before the generator will be able to, and the generator won't produce power until it sees below 13.7V and is able to supply power. So the gen will stay in standby state until it is needed, as dictated by the bus voltage.

Its really meant to behave well and do no harm in all cases, no matter how you set it up. I like the idea of no intervention being required, so leaving the switch on will do that.
 
They are all the same, no two alike

Hi Ernst,

Would you happen to have a Part Number for the studs? I have an O-320 and my Illustrated Parts Catalog seems to be missing those.

Thanks in advance!

Cheers, Sean

Sean,
What model of 320 do you have? I wouldn't want to give you the wrong part number. Perhaps your question should be moved to the Traditional Engines forum, as the 320 is not an engine option for an RV-10?

Charlie
 
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Stud Length - O-320/360???

It took a bit of scavenging but I was able to find a vacuum adapter locally in great shape for a very reasonable price. Now in search of the studs...

Anyone have any idea what the length or part number would be for the studs? It's not listed in the exploded parts diagram and I assume that it's because one has to take into account the plate thickness of whatever device is attached. Alternately, how might one calculate the stud length given the thickness of the adapter and the thickness of the generator mounting plate.

Just an FYI that stud prices on Spruce vary from CDN$25.00 to over CDN$1000.00.

Thanks in advance!

Cheers, Sean
 
New 540 / Additional Bolts?

Ernst,

We are only building at this point, but really like the idea of incorporating the generator. Our 540 (still on order) will come with the VAC adapter. Are the bolts you mention separate from the adapter?

Thanks,
Mike
 
Just an FYI that stud prices on Spruce vary from CDN$25.00 to over CDN$1000.00.

Thanks in advance!

Cheers, Sean

It is just a plain old stud with the only difference being that one side uses a slightly larger pitch diameter to make it an interference fit. Just go buy regular 1/4" studs for $.50 and use red loc tite to secure them. They use the interference fit to keep oil from weeping past the threads and loc tite will provide the same capability. Loc tite was not available whn these engines were designed and Lyc rarely changes; And why should they when they can sell a $.50 stud for $25.

Larry
 
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Vacum pump gasket

Does anybody know off hand the part number for the gasket that is between the vacuum pump gear drive and the engine accessory case? I don't need the gasket that is between the gear drive and monkworkz generator. IO-360-M1S
 
Does anybody know off hand the part number for the gasket that is between the vacuum pump gear drive and the engine accessory case? I don't need the gasket that is between the gear drive and monkworkz generator. IO-360-M1S

Sounds like you don't have the parts manual for your engine. You can download those nowadays for free from Lycoming. Below is the excerpt you need.

Screenshot 2022-12-05 172108.jpg
 
Monkwokz great

I have been able to put a few hours on my installation and this little backup generator does what it is supposed to do.
I have it set up where it is always in the on position and kicks in whenever bus voltage drops below 13.2V.
I test it by turning off the PP alternator field switch and it kicks right in to pick up the slack.
Admittedly, 10 hours of flying is not a testament to reliability or proof of a robust design but time will tell. I the meantime my PP alternator shows no sign of giving up but you never know.
Having never switched off the alternator field switch before, I am noticing a distinct "mechanical noise or load" when the PP alternator is on.
Not audio system noise just hearing the alternator working when a load is imposed.
 
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