What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Panel Feedback

Chattin35

Well Known Member
Here are the initial thoughts for my tip-up RV-7 panel. The goal was to keep things as symmetrical and ergonomic as possible. I plan to fly PIC from both seats (Rt for acro and fun flying, Lt for XC).

In addition to what's shown, there will be a canopy release T-handle, and I'll probably install a throttle quadrant to make the engine controls more symmetrical. The switches and breakers are just a rough positional mock-up. For color, I'm thinking flat black or dark grey with white labeling.

V1.

JsCR15C.png


V2.

PedNqu6.png


V3.

XmDRszI.png


What are your thoughts? Move/add/delete anything?
 
If you're going with the stock location for the release handle, you might need to lower your center stack to make room for it. Dropping the radios between your switches and circuit breakers would do it, and then you could mount the intercom (I think that's an intercom at the top right) to one side of the release handle.

Personal preference is to use switches rather than the keyswitch, and to keep push-pull knobs for controls rather than a quadrant. To each his own... :)
 
The LED trim position indicators aren't compatible with the Dynon internal position indicators. So you will have to use one or the other. I initially cut my panel for the LED indicators before I figured our you can't connect both the EFIS and the Trim indicator. I ended up just using the indicator internal to the EFIS since it can be configured where the RAC indicators are fixed.
 
I'll provide some thoughts - as I'm sure others will as well.

- Start over with the Dynon 10" SkyView displays. Use their EMS system and autopilot. This also eliminates the need for the stand alone trim position indication. This also sets you up for ADS-B in and TIS on the moving map.
- Move the headset jacks off the panel and down low in the cockpit - that way the wires are not always in your way.
- As previously stated, dump the key switch and use toggles for ignitions and a push button starter.
- As you are not installing an IFR navigator (430W, GTN-650 or similar) this is a VFR only panel. But you will still need ADS-B in/out. Dynon GPS provides 2020 certified ADS-B out and is simple to use with their transponder.
- Stay with the push/pull controls instead of a quadrant.

Carl
 
I would not use a quadrant.

Flap switch should be close to the throttle (regardless of what throttle you choose.)

I agree with getting the headset jacks off the panel.

I also would avoid using the trim indicators if possible.

Key switch or toggles both work.... personal choice. If using key, keep it off to far left reduce chance of breaking it off the key getting in or out. It is also more ergonomic for the reach of your left hand .
 
I see you have 2 comm radios (and the sl-30 has nav audio too). How do you plan to switch between them for both transmit and receive, and to turn the nav audio on/off?

Perhaps that functionality is all buried in your switches, but the intercom you have pictured won't do it without some additional external switching.
 
I always ask

How far along are you on the plane? You want to wait as long as possible to select panel items. Things change fast and often to your advantage with cost and simplicity.

Regarding the jack locations, definitely put them in the roll bar brace. This keeps them behind you and out of the way.

The best recommendation I can give you is to go with a plug and play panel option from Advanced Flight Systems. I believe they will do Dynon stuff too. It is a little more money but will save you months of time.
 
I'll provide some thoughts - as I'm sure others will as well.


- As you are not installing an IFR navigator (430W, GTN-650 or similar) this is a VFR only panel.

Carl

Why? If he has a SL30, he should have IFR capability.

Jim
RV8 N37PK
 
Few thoughts

If your going with GRT. The EMS does not need to be on the panel. It's redundant. IFR/ VFR / radios and transponder can be a remote install. Larger 8.5" screens will look nicer scale wise. Canopy release can also be designed to be on the sub panel or below. A pressure fit Gizmo dock for example could be removed to get to the Handel or a twist type lever could be used below the sub panel. Garmin GTR 200 has its own intercom if your going VFR.
 
I really, really disliked the bracket under the panel holding the engine and prop control cables on mine. I chunked that and put my cables directly into the bottom of the panel itself, freeing up a few inches of under-panel room.
 
Thanks for the feedback!

Thanks for the feedback... I'll definitely nix the trim pos indicators, move the jacks to the roll bar/bulkhead area, and use separate switches for the starter/mags (never liked the key format anyway).

@RV7Guy Airframe is done. I'm hanging the engine and running wires right now. The equipment is pretty much set unless I decide to go crazy on the classifieds. I got it all used at pretty good prices. Paying about a 1/4 of what a quick panel would cost.

@Snowflake I'm planning to use a locking push pull cable for the canopy release. So, location should be much more flexible. I'm still undecided on the location. Positioned horizontally, front and center, (same reachability from both seats) is the current leading idea.

@rvbuilder2002 Thanks. I'll definitely do 3 of the 4. What's the reasoning behind not using a quadrant? Does it mess up the cable lengths? Something I'm not thinking about?

@agirard7a The thought process there was to have the EMS on a separate bus for monitoring engine data during engine start while the screens boot up and reducing load for the battery. Might not be an issue, though? The GRT EMS also displays airspeed info, iirc. So, it acts as a backup if the AHARS or EFIS fails. Also, the SL-30 has an intercom as well. But, Stein hates it for some reason and advised against using it. Do you have experience with the 200's?

@Carl Yeah... but let's get real here. When do you fly actual IMC in an RV? And, what's the fun in filing IFR anyway? It's only there for keeping the currency and "vectors to the ILS before the wings ice over" type situations. The SL-30 is plenty for that.

Seriously, thanks for the feedback everyone. I'll have an updated image shortly.

Edit: Ohh, and that's an SL-70 transponder, not a dual radio. Only radio is an SL-30.
 
Last edited:
Latest iteration based on feedback... thoughts?

PEGwzWM.png

Looking at the latest, and only for aesthetics, I would tighten up the center stack and put the EFIS screens lower to form a base line across the bottom of it all. The center stack will rise above it, but the symmetry side to side and along the base line would look nice.
 
"@Carl Yeah... but let's get real here. When do you fly actual IMC in an RV? And, what's the fun in filing IFR anyway? It's only there for keeping the currency and "vectors to the ILS before the wings ice over" type situations. The SL-30 is plenty for that."

Every cross country is IFR. At least half involve IMC. One recent trip was 2.5 hours IMC (and this was the best day of the week to fly home).

So - keep the SL-30 and go fly. After a year or so upgrade to a IFR navigator of your choice. The panel is just a piece of aluminum with holes, easy to modify. Or if you want a local go fly on a nice day airplane, you are done.

Carl
 
I love my quadrant. It's center mounted. If I was to fly acro, I would do so from the left seat, same as all my other flying. I'm right handed and find there's much more to do with the non-stick (right) hand (radios, maps, notepad, etc). The left hand is more than adequate for holding the stick.

Bevan
 
Panel Comments

I agree with the posted comments on the system you are using, other then the have someone else make the panel for you. Make it yourself - the panel is the easy part. I did the layout in ACAD and had a local water jetter cut it for $35.

I just finished a full Dynon Skyview with 2 10" displays. The trim system is built in already so not need there. Also, their radio has standby monitor so for VFR I don't see a need for Radio #2.

Have the panel water jet cut - you can get it down to every riven hole and screw hole perfect.

Comments -
1. Order plenty of 6-32 single leg nut plates.
2. the wiring is easy - just follow the instructions.
3. get the install kit from B&C - they are great people and have everything you need.
4. Use Rivnuts to install the components.
5. Install the AHARS platform from VANS in the back of the plane and install the Vans ELT brackets on each side. Mount the Dynon ADAHARS unit on the platform per their manual. Just use their dimensions for mounting and install Rivnuts ahead of time. Don't use steel nutplates - this is a magnetically sensitive unit. Brass Screws only. Same goes for the side ELT mount plates - I installed the ADS-B unit on one side with Rivnuts.
6. Check your switch locations - don't want to hit the support brackets.
7. check the canopy clearance - I dot inside and closed the canopy and market a "don't go above" line on the sub panel.

Good Luck
 
@Bevan Did you have any issues with the quadrant install? Any pictures handy?

Issues? Not sure how to answer that. Anytime you stray from the plans there is lots of head scratching, prototyping, etc. Since my whole panel was my own design, it wasn't much more to do the quadrant. It worked out quite well and would do it again. I like the levers better than push/pulls. Also, the quadrant (3 lever) and 4 push/pulls for cabin heat, park brake etc are located on the sides so it makes for a very compact set of controls. Maybe 6 inches in width total for 7 control cable devices.

3503rwm.jpg


Bevan
 
Quadrant

Very nice. Thanks. I also dig the PTT on the throttle.

I've had more than a couple people tell me the quadrant was a good mod that they'd do again.
 
perspective...

Break up the long row of toggles. Make it easy to find switches without reading labels. Place the mag p-lead switches high in panel, avoid accidental bumps. Consider service of behind-panel items. Is the panel split? Makes access easier. The shape of the panel outline looks odd...?? (I built a slider.) Arrainge switches by phase of flight, panel flow is the worlds best checklist.

Oh, and leave a space to add an IFR GPS without reshuffling the entire panel.
 
Last edited:
Break up the long row of toggles. Make it easy to find switches without reading labels. Place the mag p-lead switches high in panel, avoid accidental bumps.

I agree, if you make the decision to go with toggles for the ign., they should be isolated separate from all other switches. Protectors is not a bad idea either.
 
Isn't that GRT gear? If so, some more comments ...

Several comments mention Dynon components but it looks like you have GRT gear. If so, consider the following.

1. Mount the display units such that if you move up in display size, the upper outboard mounting holes can remain constant. Makes it easier to cut the panel to go from 6.4" to 8.4" 10.4" devices.

2. Get one of the machined bezels to cover the EIS4000. Makes a BIG difference in visual appearance.

3. The GRT displays will show trim position etc. but the physical ones will be more obvious.

4. The AHRS should keep in mind that pitot/static runs and wiring runs from the magnetometer need to be accommodated (but you probably already know that)

5. Consider cutouts for the little short USB memory sticks. Makes it easy to update the EFIS or remove with data collection.

James
 
Very nice. Thanks. I also dig the PTT on the throttle.

I've had more than a couple people tell me the quadrant was a good mod that they'd do again.

I put the second PTT on the throttle primarily for formation flying. Some have said when it's on the stick, you tend to slightly change altitude with each transmission. I would agree but found I use the throttle PTT almost exclusively. I still have one PTT on the stick too and the co-pilot has one on the panel so the co-pliot stick is removable without fussing with wires.

Bevan
 
Last edited:
Ed makes a good point. At least a dedicated round oil pressure gauge. Your engine monitor will also have a oil pressure sender (so you will have two senders) and will be invaluable for alarms etc. But the round pressure gauge will be your friend on engine startup and on those lonely legs across inhospitable terrain/water. In my opinion anyway.

Bevan
 
Switches

The guidance I got when designing my panel was to not group more than five switches in a row without a space. You have room to put in a space.

I left my Aux pump switch in the middle of the row with space on either side
it makes it an easy grab.

Also, i put my flap switch above and to the left of the throttle so I could work it with my thumb while my hand was on the throttle.

Just some thoughts.
Jim Frisbie
RV-9A 500 hrs.
 
That EIS is all you need for engine monitoring, and it can be wired to the master switch so you don't need to worry about seeing your oil pressure on engine start.

I like the panel layout. James Clark had some great suggestions. Make sure you leave enough room to install the newer/bigger GRT EFIS screens at some point in the future. For now, cheap is good! I still can't believe how long those old WS screens have lasted. Good stuff.
 
I would mount the EIS off to the side, for a couple reasons. Firewall penetrations will be easier to add/subtract/maintain/reseal on either the RHS or LHS of the firewall, and mounting the EIS similarly will keep the wire runs shorter and neater. I think mounting it in the center is a mistake because you're taking up future expansion space right there with something that you don't NEED to be right there.

Here's mine, similar in that it's a center stack with the radios, but I put the EIS way off on the right (as opposed to mounting it behind the panel).

IMG_20150116_161502997_HDR.jpg


I'd also listen to KateB and make sure you leave room for a bigger screen in the future, shouldn't be hard if you ditch the trim indicators.
 
Size?

The shape of the panel outline looks odd...?? (I built a slider.) Arrainge switches by phase of flight, panel flow is the worlds best checklist.

Oh, and leave a space to add an IFR GPS without reshuffling the entire panel.

The panel size/shape looks unusual to me as well. Or are you intentionally going for the extra large/tall panel? Maybe that was inadvertently selected in the panel planner.

For your equipment and overall aesthetics, I highly recommend the standard panel size. No need for anything taller here, and more knee/leg room is nice.

Also, having flown behind GRT equipment for almost 5 years, I like having the old school EIS/EMS screen easily visible. Not required, but the reality is that you can only display a limited amount of engine data on the EFIS (or none on the WS PFD, IIRC) at once so the EIS can be handy.

Took me a little time to figure out the EIS display but then I came to appreciate it, especially the combo page (for lack of better terms). Fuel flow, highest EGT/CHT, rpm, etc, are nice to clearly see without squinting or pushing buttons.

Last input -- completely agree with moving ignition related switches (including the starter button) up and away from the others. Don't want an iPad, AFD, or other items in your lap able to change those unintentionally!

Hope that helps!
 
Last edited:
For your equipment and overall aesthetics, I highly recommend the standard panel size. No need for anything taller here, and more knee/leg room is nice.

Yes, my panel above shows that a 10.5" HXr easily fits into a standard height panel.

edit: provided you're willing to totally re-work the panel support braces, I replaced the sheet metal C-channel (really just a big web with small flanges) with pieces of .050" bent angle.
 
Muchas Gracias

Here's the latest. I think I'm ready to start cutting. Although, switches are still undetermined. I'll prob separate them out and get creative with placement to ensure ergonomics and symmetry. Thanks a ton for the suggestions. Definitely good things to think about.

@gtmule I like the logic behind moving the EMS to the side. The tradeoff is lost symmetry (re: dual PIC) with easy eye movement to the power settings and backup A/S / Alt on the EMS. I just cut the webs to move them to the center, bracketing the radio stack. You have a beautiful panel, btw.

ja8m4mG.png


Just for fun, a version to sell current EFIS and go with GRT Sport and iPad.

ImvB53o.png
 
Personally, I think your EFISes are mounted much too high. For one thing, be careful about interference with the canopy (I have a tip-up, and it was close). That applies to all of the items (including switches)...remember there is some depth to some of these items. (this may not apply so much in a slider, don't know). I'd go for a more centralized location, especially with the smaller EFIS option.

Also, your spacing between the elements in the center (radios) is not consistent.
 
I think you want the EFIS as high as practical to minimize eye movement from horizon/runway/other aircraft to flight instrumentation as much as possible.
 
Are you using XPANEL for your lay out? If so do you know if there is a way to overlay the item cut out dimensions in order to cut the panel?
 
Back
Top