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History.........RV-4: the airplane Van didn't want to design

Roadjunkie1

Well Known Member
Just to remind us of what has gone before us....... In The Beginning.....:)

After designing the RV-3, the first aircraft released for us builders, pilots/builders wanted an airplane they could share the joy in: carry a passenger. After much cajoling, Van reluctantly reneged and the RV-4 was his second design for us not talented enough to design our own. A few amazing designs have crossed his drafting table since.

I have seen this airplane fly many times and it was an inspiration for me to start building my own. I believe it is now a resident of the EAA Museum in OSH. It is good to see it there as an example....the first example...of a very prolific designer of a great airplane series...but it would be nice to see it in the air as well.....

Taken at OSH years ago.......before I jumped in and started my Slow Build RV-4....... Why, back in those days we had to DRILL OUR OWN HOLES....!:D
 

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ole blue

I remember that plane from Oshkosh '92 when Jerry van Grunsven (Dick's brother) took me up for a demo flight.

The RV-6 "ole blue" in the background was also as a result of customer demand.

There was no fancy paint or graphics on the prototypes, just plain straight tape was used for the cowl lettering.

BTW I am still setting out and marking and drilling own holes.... starting with empennage kit that arrived in late 1993.
 
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RV-4: the airplane Van didn't want to design

Bit of a title here...
Vans also did not want to design the -6, nor any of the handicapped -A version that followed :eek:

I’d wish the old man would take to the pen to recount his personal thoughts and feelings at the time, and the following evolution. Put me on the list for that book :cool:

PS
good old memories of a demo flight in ol Blue at OSH, guess it was 1987, and one in that very -4 in 1988...
 

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As soon as Vans was forced to add a training wheel his concept/ideas changed, poor bugger!:D
 
"Poor bugger!?"
Nah, just think of ALL THAT GOLD, and the MANY more people that got to fly an RV!
 
RV-4

Those were fun days. I still have the May 1980 magazine where the -4 was introduced. I built serial number 706 and then a few years later number 1106. I currently have number 695. I’m a die hard -4 guy and have right around 3500 hours of time in the -4. I flew my -4 to Vans homecoming in 1985 and met Van and the staff for the first time. Good memories.
 
VANS number assigned to plans I believe.

It is my understanding, the number is assigned to the actual plans, as " early day" RV enthusiasts could ultimately build one from scratch, but only one aircraft could be built from a set of plans. I also believe the plans are a part of the empennage kit which is the normal first step in building. I am curious how many people actually ordered all the subkits at once? I myself bought the empennage/plans from someone else who abandoned it, and started to scratch build the rest..then just realized what a bargain the kit costs where, and bought the rest of the subkits over a period of a couple years. My -4 is VANs S/N 2667, which I also used as my S/N on the registration.
 
I purchased the entire kit with one shot, grand total was under $8K.

S/N: 2885
 
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RV4 History

The -4 shown in the poster's pic is not Van's prototype.

The N number of the shown aircraft is 24RV and was registered in 1984, Van's prototype is N14RV and was registered in 1979, and now lives in the EAA Museum @ OSH.

The big giveaway is the single piece canopy on 24RV & the "split" two piece system on the prototype - forward fixed section (like RV3) and aft "tip" section.
Van decided on making the whole canopy a single piece tipover on production kits.

I took a ride with Van in 14RV from his home airport, Sunset Airpark in Hillsborough, OR in 1985 - a fun time and the beginning of a life long (at least from that point forward) involvement with RV aircraft.

YMMV

HFS
 
The -4 shown in the poster's pic is not Van's prototype.

The N number of the shown aircraft is 24RV and was registered in 1984, Van's prototype is N14RV and was registered in 1979, and now lives in the EAA Museum @ OSH.

The big giveaway is the single piece canopy on 24RV & the "split" two piece system on the prototype - forward fixed section (like RV3) and aft "tip" section.

You are, of course, exactly right! The paint scheme is the same but the prototype lives in the EAA museum. These are the airplanes (including Old Blue in the background) they gave rides with at OSH. The picture I posted was stuck on my tool board for years as I hammered my RV-4 together.....

Michael
RV-4 2860
 

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I was lucking enough to get my demo ride in that very plane. From Bill Benedict RIP.

I built RV-4 #2374 over a 12 year period, bought the first kits from Van's garage, some from his facility in North Plains and the final pieces from the current location in KUAO. What an amazing success story, it was so cool to see the progression of this wonderful company over the years.
 
The -4 shown in the poster's pic is not Van's prototype.

The N number of the shown aircraft is 24RV and was registered in 1984, Van's prototype is N14RV and was registered in 1979, and now lives in the EAA Museum @ OSH.

The big giveaway is the single piece canopy on 24RV & the "split" two piece system on the prototype - forward fixed section (like RV3) and aft "tip" section.
Van decided on making the whole canopy a single piece tipover on production kits.

All correct except for the description of the canopy.
The fwd portion tipped to the side and the aft portion slid fore/aft like the original sliding canopy on the RV-3 ( note that the split in the canopy is located about where the roll bar is). Yes, the RV-3 was originally designed with a sliding canopy but changed to a side tipper for ease of build and the kit version of the RV-4 evolved into that as well.
 
Oops!

Been so long ago that I forgot that the front was hinged and the aft section was a slider.

My bad!

HFS
 
Just to remind us of what has gone before us....... In The Beginning.....:)

After designing the RV-3, the first aircraft released for us builders, pilots/builders wanted an airplane they could share the joy in: carry a passenger. After much cajoling, Van reluctantly reneged and the RV-4 was his second design for us not talented enough to design our own. A few amazing designs have crossed his drafting table since.

When were the first RV-3 plans and kits sold? When did the first owner built RV-3 fly?

I'm guessing N3VR was a fairly early one, the main parts were inspected and signed off for closure in May '78, and it first flew July '80. The log book make and model is "Ebbert-Vangrunsven RV-3-E, S/N: EE2. Built in Troy Michigan. Donated to EAA / Sun 'n Fun in '93, sold around '08.

I asked about my RV when I responded to Van's request for the Liability Waiver, but did not get any response.
 
I’d wish the old man would take to the pen to recount his personal thoughts and feelings at the time, and the following evolution. Put me on the list for that book :cool:

At the 40th Anniversary festivities of the -4 during Oshkosh 2019, Van did do several presentations regarding the History of the RV-4 story. One was in a forum pavilion so it may have been recorded by EAA? I'm not sure. I haven't gone to look for it. It was interesting though because Dick was showing old home videos and photo's of the prototype's development. 45 minutes to an hour long if I remember correctly.

The other was out near the flight line on the "Homebuilt's in Review" area or whatever it's called. He spoke of the -4 a while and then told the story of the -5. I even ran out to my airplane, grabbed an inspection cover, and asked him to sign it for me :)
 

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Justin, that's pretty cool, what an experience!

Fondly remember those annual Oshkosh RV banquet majestically lead by Alan Tolle†, avid builder and greatest ambassador. And Van himself, cautious as ever, giving the latest company infos, good ol'times...

Pity I missed AV2019 altogether :(
 
Missed the 40th but for a good reason

At the 40th Anniversary festivities of the -4 during Oshkosh 2019, Van did do several presentations regarding the History of the RV-4 story. One was in a forum pavilion so it may have been recorded by EAA? I'm not sure. I haven't gone to look for it. It was interesting though because Dick was showing old home videos and photo's of the prototype's development. 45 minutes to an hour long if I remember correctly.

The other was out near the flight line on the "Homebuilt's in Review" area or whatever it's called. He spoke of the -4 a while and then told the story of the -5. I even ran out to my airplane, grabbed an inspection cover, and asked him to sign it for me :)

I really wanted to be at these activities but had to miss out for a good Reason. I had the honor and privilege of flying my RV4 in the airshows on Monday and Wednesday. The briefings and preparations to fly precluded the chance to be there. Flying a plane I built ser#3000, in the show was a total thrill of a lifetime.
Here is a vid of some of it


https://youtu.be/ALKBzyELoBU
 
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Amazing!

The briefings and preparations to fly precluded the chance to be there. Flying a plane I built ser#3000, in the show was a total thrill of a lifetime.
Here is a vid of some of it
https://youtu.be/ALKBzyELoBU

Nice video!

Builders: if you want some inspiration to keep pounding those rivets, pause for 10 minutes and watch this video!

I watched the formation flying of the RV's every day you flew (when I wasn't busy running the Vintage Division) and it was most impressive! Hey: those guys are flying the airplane I fly!! I LOVE formation flying! Renegades get it DONE!!

Michael
RV-4 2860
 
My RV4 (that I didn’t build) is #530, and that’s also it’s registration # - N530RV. It took Mr. Lempke more than 20 years to build it and he did an amazing job. I can’t find a bad rivet anywhere, and it flies fast, straight, and true. It doesn’t have an autopilot (built light), and I don’t need one in this VFR pocket rocket. Trimmed out in cruise (manual trim) in smooth air, it goes where it’s pointed hands off. For the pure joy of flying, I don’t think you can find a better airplane - anywhere.
 
For the pure joy of flying, I don’t think you can find a better airplane - anywhere.

Van may not have wanted to build the RV4 ,but in my humble opinion it is the best of all of his designs.


I could not agree more! Build 'em light and straight and there IS no better airplane flying! Centerline, tandem, tail-dragger. It is one of the best-flying airplanes in the fleet! And you can take someone with you! Goes fast; goes slow! I remember flying formation with a J-3 Cub and never "lost it"; didn't even feel I was on the ragged edge. Was I all flaps? Yes. And he was maneuvering trying to MAKE me lose it! ;);)

Sensitive without being twitchy. Perfect control harmony. How many airplanes can you roll, feet on the floor, and still do a pretty good roll? In fact, how many airplanes can you ROLL? Is it better with a little rudder input? Well, yeah. Again: rolling on the center line......:):)

There was a well-known aviation writer who, years ago, wrote that he had access to a P-51, F4U Corsair and an RV-4. Guess which was his favorite airplane? And he also said the RV-4 was as similar to the how the F4U felt as one could get on the civilian market. Likely the reason so many retired military jet jocks "graduated" to an RV-4 (and subsequently -8; it wasn't out yet) as their civilian rides. Like flying an A-4? (yes, that was a while ago) ;) You'll fit right in an RV-4!

I have very fond memories of having a former Air Force jet jock in my RIO/WSO position (back seat), who now flies for an airline, and hadn't pulled G's in 15 years! We were dog fighting with another Air Force jock in a -6 and had a BLAST! Air Force pilots, however, do not like negative G forces. They roll inverted and pull! :D We didn't do that........;)

Suzie Q fits me like a glove. I do not feel I am "sitting" in the cockpit; rather it is like putting her "ON". Personally, to me there is too much "room" in the -8 and, being born and raised on tandem, having someone sitting beside me would........well, it just wouldn't be right! ("What are YOU doing over THERE?":D)

After 1200+ hours and many cross-country trips and being weather-wise, I have never felt the need for her to be IFR-equipped. Not the type of flying I do anyway. And much of that before we had the immediate weather information we have now. My initial GPS was a panel-mount Trimble, for crying out loud: a GTW: "Go That Way".:D No graphics. Much has changed. It was pretty cool to get my "1000 Hour" plaque at OSH the year we accomplished that goal!

There is likely much conversation as to which of Van's designs is the best, depending on what the person you are talking to flies. I fly a -4; it's the best!:)

THANK YOU, Sir Van Grunsven, for gifting the aviation world with the BEST designed airplanes currently in the Sky. We, as a builder/pilot community, are forever indebted to you!

And HAPPY NEW YEAR! 2021! Wow! How did THAT happen.....??

Michael
RV-4 2860
 

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My favorite out of three

After returning from my traditional New Year's Day flight in Miss Fusion flying a recon over Westcliffe Valley and checking the snow on the Sangre De Cristo range, I found this thread down memory lane.

From the day I first saw pictures and read about Van's RV4, I was pretty sure that was the plane for me. Having owned and flown a Taylor Titch in the early 70's, I was smitten by the response and light controls to be had in small homebuilt aircraft. My first opportunity to fly an RV4 came in the summer of 85, when I test flew Harold Steiner's first to be completed -4 in Idaho. I know he managed to build quite a few more RV's over the years as well as working for Van overseas helping to establish the workforce for building quick builds. I'm sure some of the folks flying now own one of his builds as he was a prolific producer of the various early models.

As others here have said, keeping it light powered by an 0-320 with wood or composite prop makes it a very nimble and responsive aircraft. So my goal was to emulate the fine example built by Van the man and I was an adherent of the KISS principle. Nothing went on that plane that wasn't required for VFR daylight flying and the end product was everything I had imagined it would be. It became my Spitfire, to roam the nearby skies looking for bogies and or the hapless tank in a defilade, most often a lonely cow on the prairie not far from APA before it became surrounded by home developments.

Miss Fusion has seen tight formation and or ACM training with the infamous "Composite Pursuit Sqdn" based at Prescott, now mostly likely stood down due to old age of the participants, to demo airshows as one of the charter members of the Rocky Mountain Renegades formed in 2011. She has taken me to backcountry strips all over the Rocky Mountain States and the coast from Neah Bay WA. to Santa Maria CA and places between. All this with, manual trim, no autopilot or fancy panel. If I wanted fancy panel I went to work for three or four days, and even now, the fancy panels on the homebuilts put the airlines to shame.

Miss Fusion was the first RV4 to be completed in Colorado while my buddy was a close second a week later in the summer of 1989. So do I love this creation with wings? you bet I do, and of the Laser 200 and Pitts S1S, she'll be the last departing my hangar.

Right after I landed my multi-role fighter this afternoon, I jumped into the Pitts for some acro while the sun kept the OAT above freezing. The task specific acro plane, be it the Pitts or Laser, are great fun to fly and pulling/pushing hairy G's in whatever acro maneuver you desire can't be accomplished in the -4 with safety, but the control harmony and balance of a basic light RV-4 is its shining attribute that the other two planes don't have. Not to mention you are severely restricted to carry on luggage with the single seaters and most often they are uncomfortable to fly any distances. I've never seen a Pitts at Smiley Creek or Flying B ranch either.

Personally, if Van's resurrected the four line while using the same building concept now in use with the later models, I think they would have a market for them.
 
I like the 4 the most style wise but the 8 is the overall pick of the bunch. Wth the third wheel where it's meant to be the concept fills many rolls. The 4 is too limiting, can't aero 2 up with any decent gas and is cramped. Looks the part for sure:)
 
If the -4 wasn’t designed and such a success

I like the 4 the most style wise but the 8 is the overall pick of the bunch. Wth the third wheel where it's meant to be the concept fills many rolls. The 4 is too limiting, can't aero 2 up with any decent gas and is cramped. Looks the part for sure:)

Im not sure their would be an -8
The -8 looses in the bang for the buck argument

https://youtu.be/yDux0BHahrw

Cm
 
My RV4 compared quite well in this race against more hp/cs equipment. In fact had we used a running start rather than start from takeoff roll I would have done better. Once that -4 gets going it performs quite well with 160hp/Catto prop. Also, density altitude has never been an issue with this bird and easily have spent hours at 17500 while transiting our mountains.

https://sportairrace.org/sarl/node/2210

Nice to see that video Chris, it was great fun!
 
Bit of a title here...
Vans also did not want to design I’d wish the old man would take to the pen to recount his personal thoughts and feelings at the time, and the following evolution. Put me on the list for that book :cool:

Be patient... :)
 
The -4 shown in the poster's pic is not Van's prototype.

The N number of the shown aircraft is 24RV and was registered in 1984, Van's prototype is N14RV and was registered in 1979, and now lives in the EAA Museum @ OSH.

Yep. N24RV isn't currently actively flying, but it's still around.
 
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