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RV-12; Dead Stick Landing Video

Geico266

Well Known Member
I would like present a video I made in my RV-12 to show the glide characteristics in an actual engine out situation.

I started out at 6,300' MSL about 5 miles SW of my 1,500'MSL airport. Winds were 120 degrees @ 15 gusts to 23 mph, Runway 17. I weight about 210 and half 1/2 fuel, no baggage, no passenger.

Moderate traffic dictated that I maintained a "normal" pattern rather than a straight in approach for 35 without declairing an actual emergency. Touch down point was the middle of the runway and I came in short around the numbers after slipping hard with full flaps.

My hope in presenting this video is that others may see how much time you have before touch down to look for an airport, road, open field, ect. IMHO it is panic and inattention to airspeed that is your enemy, not the loss of the engine. If you need to panic do it in a bar with a stiff drink a couple hours after landing. ;)

A -12 has a glide ratio of about 13-1 which gives good glide range, and the low stall speed gives good survivability.

Enjoy! About 8 minutes long.

http://youtu.be/_xZmsxEewik
 
Outstanding Larry. Nice job demonstrating "Fly the Airplane".

On a side note, what's all that white stuff along side the runways/taxiways? :D
 
Good info

I'm going to keep this one in my training films! Reinforces my hope that the 12 is a very safe aircraft. Thanks.
 
Nice work. :)

When you turned final, I thought...dang he's a long way from the runway. I don't think my 7 wouldn't have made it from that altitude.
 
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So the prop stopped windmilling @ 65 mph. Has anyone figured out the airspeed needed to begin windmilling an RV-12 prop after it has stopped in flight?
 
It's going to take quite a bit of airspeed to get the prop windmilling, if at all, after stopping because of the reduction drive.
 
So the prop stopped windmilling @ 65 mph. Has anyone figured out the airspeed needed to begin windmilling an RV-12 prop after it has stopped in flight?

Are you worried you might experience an engine failure AND a dead battery? :)
 
So, I guess it would be kind of hard to get outside and "burp" the engine on an engine re-start, huh? :rolleyes:
 
Thanks for taking the effort to prepare and post the video Larry. Good training film for those who don't want to actually stop the engine. I did the same exercise soon after competing the '12. It is a rather eerie silence until you get used to it!

For the newer pilots/owners among us - I suggest doing this with an instructor or at least a more experienced pilot on board.
 
That was very informative. I read somewhere in a write-up a while ago that the RV-12 doesn't slip very well. Is that true?
 
That was very informative. I read somewhere in a write-up a while ago that the RV-12 doesn't slip very well. Is that true?

Not true at all. The 12 slips nicely, flaps, no flaps. It doesn't fall out of the sky like some planes I've flown, but you simply hold the slip longer.

The -12 is just a delight to fly. Simple, nimble, capable, economical, and predictably stable.



Thanks one and all for the kind words on the video. I'm a rookie at editing for sure. :eek:

Keep pulling those rivets! :D
 
This is a great video. The comments alone reveal what is the best kept secret of the 12...it doesn't want to come down! I can't remember how many times I have pulled power on a "newbie", put it at best glide, and watched their amazement grow as the distance far exceeded anything they were used to. I can't imagine anything better unless it would be a sailplane or a parachute. Thanks Larry...especially for flying over snow, ice and all those other nightmares I would never attempt. I prefer not only a landing that I can walk away from, but a hike that allows me to walk in shorts and sandals.
 
My typical base turn is about 5 times closer with the engine running, I couldn't believe how great of a glid ratio the 12 has.

Good job
 
Great way to instill the "keep flying" thought in panic mode

I thought the same when you turned final... no way I wont make it. And then panic mode set in while I watched! Good video and nice landing.... gotta fly 'er all the way in no matter what the outcome.. thanks!:)
 
...other ways to practice this????

Great video...great lesson.
I took out my calculator and pencil, and tried to figure the route where you glide about 12 miles to lose the 4800' until touchdown!
I hate to admit, but instead of panic, I got bored!...... and fast-forwarded thru the video to the end!:eek:

but my point is; wouldn't it be nice to do this 100 times in flight sim, trying a slip etc. and NOT making the field about 50 times, just to illustrate all the various scenarios....head-wind, vs tailwind to extend the glide etc..
Then going out to the plane and doing it again, for real.
( you -7 guys have it made since there's a MS flite sim model available....anyone tried it?)
 
Larry, that's a nice bit of flying. Some folks seem to get a little too scientific when it comes to trying to figure out how far they can glide to a landing spot. All you have to do is learn the angle below the horizon your airplane can glide to! And adjust for wind as best as you can. I would imagine you were doing nothing but watching the angle of airport lay below the horizon during the whole episode. Nice job.

I'm also impressed by the gliding capability of the -12. In an emergency situation, I've often thought about the pros and cons of shallow gliding airplanes vs. steep gliding airplanes, and which one I'd rather be in. If I'm undoubtedly within gliding distance, I'd prefer to be in a steep gliding airplane with very steep slipping potential, as you have better control over putting the plane down exactly where you want without coming up short or overshooting. Of course, if the closest landing spot is out of gliding range, you'll want a shallower gliding airpane in order to reach your landing spot, even if you may give up some ability to vary your approach angle.

Sorry for the non-RV content (again), but I shot this below just to show an airplane on the opposite end of the approach angle spectrum, and how you can drop it in from impossibly high angles. I do this for fun, as much as for practice, and it feels like cheating it's so easy to put exactly where you want. It really opens up the "window" of angle below the horizon that you must hit. Regarding hitting the "window", it all boils down to knowing your airplane regardless of type, but I feel like I have a wider margin for error in the Pitts on the final approach, even if I'm not going to glide laterally nearly as far as something like the RV-12. Now...if only there was a sport airplane out there that glides like a -12 and slips like a Pitts. :D But I think those things are mutually exclusive. ;)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AaBCIZRspA
 
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REQUEST FOR GEICO266

Thanks Larry,

I enjoyed the video.

I have agreed to conduct a first flight of an RV-12 in a few weeks. I would be grateful if you would tell me the clean stall, and best glide range speeds (Indicated), both at full fuel solo take-off weight.

Thanks
 
One interesting thing on dead stick landings pilots often get wrong. What has a better glide ratio? A RV a max gross weight or a RV at a lighter weight? Many make the wrong assumption when training for this however with the exception of the 12 I suspect the difference is not much.
George
 
Same glide, different speed

...What has a better glide ratio? A RV a max gross weight or a RV at a lighter weight? ...I suspect the difference is not much.

Suspicion is confirmed. An aircraft's best glide angle (L/Dmax) is a function of its aerodynamic design, i.e., its shape. The max glide ratio is the same light or heavy. What changes is the speed at which L/Dmax occurs. The heavier the wing loading is, the greater is the airspeed for max glide.
 
Ill definetly be putting this one in my favorites...great video work and I sure learned a lot! Never thought the glide rate was THAT good!
 
Thanks Larry,

I enjoyed the video.

I have agreed to conduct a first flight of an RV-12 in a few weeks. I would be grateful if you would tell me the clean stall, and best glide range speeds (Indicated), both at full fuel solo take-off weight.

Thanks

Bob,
I'm not Larry, but may I suggest the following.

The RV-12 was designed to meet the U.S. light sport requirements. That means the no flap stall speed (at gross weight) can't be more than 45 kts.
I believe all of the speed specs are listed in the POH for the airplane.

I would suggest that all of this info is meaningless for the first flight until you take actions to prove that the airspeed indicator is reading correct values. Such as sneek up on a stall and see what the indicated airspeed is.
And if you do that, knowing what the speeds are supposed to be isn't important for a first flight... only knowing what the indicated speed actaully is at stall matters.
 
THANKS

Thanks Scott,

Your advice appreciated. I agree position error will be another unknown.

I do not plan on a stall during the first flight, just gentle handling, then a landing to check for leaks, spare parts and security of all remaining bits.

The factory performance states max AUW clean stall speed is 47mph or about 41Kts, so I guess best glide would be about 1.4Vs, or 57Kts.

Indicated airspeed figures from another airframe would help decisions if the first flight plan goes awry.

Larry's video sure is a big help in judging glide flight path, but if the engine quits I bet I end up high on finals.

Regards
 
POH glide speeds

Per the RV-12 POH Skyview page 6-10

Flaps up to maximize glide
Maximum gliding distance airspeed is 85 knots cas
Minimum decent airspeed is 60 knots cas
Final approach speed of 60 knots cas (55 knots cas minimum).

Aircraft weight is not specified.
Flaps DOWN AFTER intended point of landing assured.


-Dave
 
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Suspicion is confirmed. An aircraft's best glide angle (L/Dmax) is a function of its aerodynamic design, i.e., its shape. The max glide ratio is the same light or heavy. What changes is the speed at which L/Dmax occurs. The heavier the wing loading is, the greater is the airspeed for max glide.

Your correct. The heavier aircraft will be at a higher airspeed and glide further then the lighter aircraft. It was explained to me that it was primarily a function of stored energy. The heavier aircraft has more stored energy. I doubt it's a factor in a RV but in larger aircraft with greater weight ranges it can make a big difference in glide range. Most pilots assume the lighter aircraft will glide further.

George
 
Larry, nicely done and a very helpful demonstration. Thanks.
Haven't done mine yet (I know, I know), but will and this is a great preview. Only comment I have is if you ever do a check ride with the FAA I recommend you get it right on the centerline on the runway and taxiways and keep it there. They like that, a lot.
Dick Seiders
 
Great Job but!

I knew it was only a matter of time before somebody
said something about that centerline. ;) And he did it in
such a polictical correct way to.:rolleyes:
 
Larry, nicely done and a very helpful demonstration. Thanks.
Haven't done mine yet (I know, I know), but will and this is a great preview. Only comment I have is if you ever do a check ride with the FAA I recommend you get it right on the centerline on the runway and taxiways and keep it there. They like that, a lot.
Dick Seiders

http://youtu.be/7LqToaH6CS8

See video above.
 
Young Bloods!

When your young all you want to do is show off! :D
It's an inside joke cause Kyle is younger than all of us except for teen flight
Members.;)
 
I know that fuel prices are ridiculous, but don't you think this is taking fuel savings to the extreme? :)

Seriously, the glide on this aircraft is incredible. Although my 7 is now sold I did dead stick it a few times and it didn't glide as well. I would however challenge the guys that said they couldn't get their -7's down from that altitude. It's actually quite doable.

I found side slips to be ineffective but dropping IAS to ~ 63kts and keeping it coordinated and wings level the bottom drops out of the -7 and you just ride the elevator down. Point the nose down to pick up a little airspeed when at proper glide profile and squeak it on. Not responsible if anyone tries this but it worked very, very well for me.

Basically after I got comfortable in my -7 every landing was at idle power from downwind until touchdown.
 
Your correct. The heavier aircraft will be at a higher airspeed and glide further then the lighter aircraft. It was explained to me that it was primarily a function of stored energy. The heavier aircraft has more stored energy. I doubt it's a factor in a RV but in larger aircraft with greater weight ranges it can make a big difference in glide range. Most pilots assume the lighter aircraft will glide further.

George

The distances should be the same, since the slope is the same. The heavier aircraft will get there sooner, however, because the l/dmax occurs at a higher airspeed than the lighter airplane.

Tim
 
It seems an academic issue. When the engine quits go for 75KIAS and look for a reasonably flat surface as near as you can get.
 
Larry, nicely done and a very helpful demonstration. Thanks.
Haven't done mine yet (I know, I know), but will and this is a great preview. Only comment I have is if you ever do a check ride with the FAA I recommend you get it right on the centerline on the runway and taxiways and keep it there. They like that, a lot.
Dick Seiders

I knew it was only a matter of time before somebody
said something about that centerline. ;) And he did it in
such a polictical correct way to.:rolleyes:


Did you notice what the winds were? :confused:

I landed on 17. Winds were 120 @ 15 gusts to 23. I like being on the windward side of the runway during gusty landings. :p

;)
 
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Seriously, the glide on this aircraft is incredible. Although my 7 is now sold I did dead stick it a few times and it didn't glide as well. I would however challenge the guys that said they couldn't get their -7's down from that altitude. It's actually quite doable.

I found side slips to be ineffective but dropping IAS to ~ 63kts and keeping it coordinated and wings level the bottom drops out of the -7 and you just ride the elevator down.

I think you misunderstood what we were saying...no problem getting down, that's the easy part. We were referring to the awesome glide of the 12. We were saying that if we got that low that far out, we ain't making the field in a 7. We would have turned in way closer to the airport....

Slow a 7 down and it will come down like a brick. Just don't get too far behind the curve....
 
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Agree

Gotta agree with Dick Seiders on this one - you will bust your PPC check ride around here if you perform any landings that the airplane is not 'centered' over the center line of the runway.
 
Back in the day..........

I feel sorry for you young whippersnappers! The runway at White Rock Airport where I trained did not have a centerline.
The grass runway that I took my check-ride out of also did not have a centerline.

My current runway has a 20' wide black centerline. If you can't hit that, then you probably shouldn't be landing here.
 
Young Whippersnapper?

Wish I was a young whippersnapper. Is there such a thing as an 'older' whippersnapper? What is a whippersnapper anyway? Is it one who snaps a whipper? What is a whipper? English language is awesome - and confusing, so says my Korean born wife. Google, here I come. I'll quit now and get back to studying for my PPC.
 
I feel sorry for you young whippersnappers! The runway at White Rock Airport where I trained did not have a centerline.
The grass runway that I took my check-ride out of also did not have a centerline.

My current runway has a 20' wide black centerline. If you can't hit that, then you probably shouldn't be landing here.

Earned my taildragger at Dwight, IL 2400' x 21' in my C-140 (1984). Wish I still had N76208. Kids sort of interfered with my best laid (did I say that) plans!! Was a REAL learning experience!
 
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